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    #16
    Originally posted by Campesino View Post
    Right, I'm thinking that if you have warmer temps this could be instead of a chiller. Seems like comparable pricing... and the electrolysis would be cheaper to run... and better in the end.
    I would really consider this instead of investing in a chiller... If that were my issue
    Water temperature does not only limit how easily the water can absorb O2 it also limits the maximum levels of O2 your reservoir can sustain in turn stunting or limiting the potential growth of your plants. You may be able to keep Dissolved Oxygen (DO) levels high enough to fend of Pythium but you’re limiting you maximum DO levels and in turn limiting the maximum supply of oxygen to your crop. Growth is only effected once water temps drop below 63 degrees Fahrenheit, so if you hold 65-68 you’re not only making it easy to fend off the root problems but you’re making it easier for your plants to grow and uptake oxygen which is key in plant growth.

    here are some charts on maximum DO levels as well as a chart that shows if you live higher than sea level your DO threshold lowers as well. So if you live high, and run warm temps you’re completely stunting yourself.

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    And the next one is based on a water temp of 4 degrees Celsius (waters optimal DO water temperature)
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    A chiller may be a bit more expensive to run but it’s half what it would cost me to buy this product for my reservoir due to the fact that even my small tent has a 40 gallon reservoir. (I would require 2) unless you get a DO sensor you can’t tell if that machine is even keeping you at your threshold or 100% saturation. A chiller not only will keep your water cooler inhibiting bacteria but also allow you to hold a higher DO threshold at 100% saturation. So you get peace of mind and improved oxygen absorption into your root systems with the chiller. Any professional hydroponic grower will tell you 65-68 is the sweet spot...

    graphs sourced from:
    https://www.fondriest.com/environmen...solved-oxygen/

    its a great read as well! Looking for graphs and I’m all of a sudden nerding out on stratification😂
    Attached Files
    Last edited by IslandColas; 06-13-2018, 03:37 AM.
    Perpetual harvest
    Sealed Room
    Full hydro
    Ebb and Flow
    Hydroton Media
    600w HPS
    GH Nutrients

    Current Grow:
    https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...icture-journal

    Rozay SOG 9 plant 4x4:
    https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...icture-journal

    Comment


      #17
      Excellent answer IslandColas

      Some more specific numbers and food for thought:


      ...most crops seem to prefer about 9 PPM DO...Fully oxygenated water at 68° Fahrenheit will hold about 9 PPM of DO, while the same water at 86° Fahrenheit only holds about 7.5 PPM (over 15% less DO).
      http://www.just4growers.com/stream/h...droponics.aspx

      It is possible to supersaturate water with oxygen, which brings it beyond "fully oxygenated". That is the point of electrolysis. It certainly seems that you could maintain 8+ PPM of DO at 75F with it.

      But yes, you would have to trust the device or invest considerably to verify.

      It would make me nervous - I'm talking about it, not exactly recommending it

      Comment


      • IslandColas
        IslandColas commented
        Editing a comment
        Exactly! I’m very interested in seeing it work for someone. Maybe one day I’ll test one on my outdoor system and post a thread on its effectiveness vs air stones.

      #18
      Using a water chiller, air stones, or an o2 emitter the goal is the same, increase DO. The temperature of the solution plays no other role other than to dictate the saturation point. Bacterial growth would not be inhibited until the water temperature was 3.9 C or 39F, and even at that temperature it is only slowed not stopped. It really is all about oxygen in the root zone. 7-8 ppm is all that is required and can easily be achieved with an adequately sized pump and airstones at temperatures of 70-75 F. I run slightly warmer and use a pump designed for 8 buckets in a 6 bucket system and my plant growth is vigorous.
      Failure is an opportunity for improvement!!

      Comment


      • Campesino
        Campesino commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, I really don't think there is much disagreement here - just different degrees of nervousness! I think you are the bravest! and it is certainly working for you - I do not doubt that.
        I think that your set-up would probably stand to benefit the most from electrolysis, but sounds like even in your scenario, you feel that it is overkill.

      #19
      how do you put the tag on your posts so they stay on all the time.

      Comment


      • Campesino
        Campesino commented
        Editing a comment
        Drekthar
        Scroll up to the top of the screen, you see your screen-name on the Top Right: Click on it
        Click on "User Settings"
        Select the "Account" Tab
        On this page you can add/edit your "signature" and also adjust your time zone!

        Cheers

      #20
      Here's the pump I'm thinking about for my res. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...A27K4A1IJ6225M

      they make replaceable diaphragms which makes it batter than garbage.. (320 mph/24,800 cc/minute capacity in 16 gallons seems good.
      complete beginner
      39" x 39" x 78" tent
      315 Watt CMH
      4" Phat Filter w/ 4" Hurricane duct fan
      Automatic top feed into coco.
      Mega Crop nutes

      Comment


        #21
        OK so you've convinced me to get wet after playing in the dirt. Air stones - cylindrical, round, disk, or grid? I'll be using two per for 10 gallon totes, or one per if the grid wins.

        Comment


          #22
          ALSO - I've decided to make the additional investment for top-fed. 3 sites per 10 gallon tote. I obviously want it to have enough power to be effective, but I don't want to send the Hydrotron through the wall like shotgun pellets! For the submersible pump, what gph should I go with? Thanks in advance, you folks are awesome!

          Comment


          • Obi-Wan
            Obi-Wan commented
            Editing a comment
            I prefer 4” cylinders myself, cheap, effective, and you won’t break the bank replacing them after 2-3 grows. 1 stone for every 5 gallons of water and spend the extra $$ on a larger air pump with a manifold. For a top feed pump I would follow the GWE hydro tutorial, I believe a 185 gph pump is recommended which is more than enough.

            You mentioned 3 sites per 10 gallon. Can you clarify how many plants you intend to take to harvest per 10 gallon? I do not recommend more than 1 plant per bucket after the roots reach the water.

            The totes work well for most growers but I love a system with a reservoir that is outside the tent, makes for easy all day access to check pH, PPM, and water level.

          #23
          Obi-Wan
          No more than two per, with one being far more likely.

          ​​​​​​​(I apologize if I'm mussing up the format and making seperate postings - I can't figure out how to comment on an existing post.)

          Comment


          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            And you have to comment to the post - you can't comment a comment
            I don't know that anybody really cares though

          • Obi-Wan
            Obi-Wan commented
            Editing a comment
            Sometimes I still F-it up when I over medicate🤤🤤

          • Baphomatt
            Baphomatt commented
            Editing a comment
            Taa-Daa! Thanks folks! I stopped looking because I only saw "Flag."

          #24
          here's my dealio that I took apart because of bacteria. Now i hand water until I can figure it out

          20 gallon top feed to waste into coco. FloraFlex drip caps and bubbler, 20 gallon trash can, fill to 16 gallons, 2 lines per plant, crappy air pump for a fish tank that is too weak and a big pump connected to the bubbler. I think it;s 250 GPM.

          The caps keep algae from growing on top of the coco. It was working great until about 70 degrees, then forget it. it watered 4x per day and pumped out the waste into a 5 gallon bucket, that part I still use.

          I have an air conditioner in my space but It's really inefficient to run it all the time because of the space and how it's used. I plan to restart it int he fall using a large hydro air pump.

          Things I don't know:

          will the pump feed enough O2 to the water and will it stay at temps of 75 F? Some really good info above Obi-Wan , what pump /air stone thing are you using?
          Last edited by Cronk; 06-14-2018, 09:34 PM.
          complete beginner
          39" x 39" x 78" tent
          315 Watt CMH
          4" Phat Filter w/ 4" Hurricane duct fan
          Automatic top feed into coco.
          Mega Crop nutes

          Comment


          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            Cronk are you moving the tank to keep it cool?

            Looking at your pic, I think you could do it just like mine. I'll post a schematic I made for my Drip Guide below (can't post pics in comments)

          • Cronk
            Cronk commented
            Editing a comment
            Campesino, yes, it's about 10 degrees cooler below.

          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            Well, you won't have to worry as much about it if the tank is that far below the pots because all water will drain back into the tank (perfect). Just need to get a pump that can lift water that height. May need to invest a little there, but certainly can be done.

          #25
          Hello everyone,

          Got a question for the group.
          I'm growing in a recirculating DWC system consisting of 4 plant buckets & a main res.
          A week back I posted about the pH of the water dropping fast over the course of a couple of days and I asked myself a question:
          (Post: https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...rops-over-time )

          How much influence does the location of the water pump in the main res affect the mixing of the water returning from the plant buckets back into the res have?

          In my system, the return hoses come back to the bottom of the main res (can't change that easily) which is also where the pump sits, right where that return water comes back in.

          With the pump being there, i'd imagine that the return water doesnt get much of a chance to mix properly with the water already in the main res, and would therefore be recirculating the 'waste' water straight back into the plant buckets without picking up much of the goodness in the main res.

          i've added a rough sketch of the system for better understanding.
          Pump was in location 1 (on the bottom), but i took it up to position 2.

          any thoughts on this?

          thanks.
          Lighthouse LITE growtent 1.2m x 1.2m x 2m
          PLANTiT DWC Aeros IV -> 4 buckets + main tank [75L total volume]
          Budmaster G.O.D-4 LED light (their recommended replacement for 400w HPS)
          RAM air blower with carbon filter
          Hydor Pico 600.115 600L/hr water pump
          2x Marina 200 Air Pump (2X110 L/hr) to 2 air stones each
          Hydrogarden ESSENTIALS pH Meter
          HM Digital (NaCl calibrated) TDS meter

          Comment


          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            I would recommend maybe adding a "stirring pump". Just a small submersible pump in the Res with a small hose or even no hose. If you want to get really fancy you could make a little candy cane hose to also oxygenate the water.
            The issue here is the pump will create a little heat when it runs.

          #26
          Cronk

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          Comment


          • Cronk
            Cronk commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks, Campesino I saw that in your post. you'll see my res is very similar. I use a bubbler/distributor at the top on my res.

            I'll have to bit the bullet and rearrange so I can make the hoses run that way even though it effects everything else in the space. you know that sliding numbers puzzle? goes against my sense of order

          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            Well, to be honest, if the tank is downstairs, it shouldn't matter! The siphon effect will pull all the water back down into the tank after each fertigation no matter how the lines are arranged in the tent. So you can keep it elegant inside with the feed lines along the floor and shaded.
            Curious if anyone would disagree with this.

          #27
          Aloha guys,

          I already made a thread about this but wanted to post it here as well to get your opinion specifically on it.

          So I just made the flip yesterday on my SOG of Rozay, a cross of Sunset Sherbert and Purple Bomb, and I’m just curious what the community thinks about the scraggly undergrowth along the stalks. It’s all healthy new growth but I’m worried it may be a waste of energy for the plants. What are your thoughts? Pictures below..
          Perpetual harvest
          Sealed Room
          Full hydro
          Ebb and Flow
          Hydroton Media
          600w HPS
          GH Nutrients

          Current Grow:
          https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...icture-journal

          Rozay SOG 9 plant 4x4:
          https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...icture-journal

          Comment


          • Cronk
            Cronk commented
            Editing a comment
            I'd pinch it off. are these 3 weeks old?

            how often does that tray flood?

          #28
          Thanks so much for starting this feed. I started growing last year in boxes and have visited the GWE site daily to problem-solve and problem-prevent! I'm looking forward to becoming active in this Forum.

          Like many, I have had to overcome root rot, various deficiencies and toxicities, nute lockout, cloning failures and wpm as I have made tweaks (and some major overhauls) to dial in my ambient and in-box environments, developed consistent procedures, and attempted to prevent (or reduce the likelihood of)( as many problems as possible before they happen.. It continues to be one of the most exciting, challenging and - at times - quite overwhelming ventures I've taken on in life!

          Here is what I have happening in my boxes atm:

          1. Mothership - I currently have a White Shark mom in coco in an AutoPot with AirDome. I will be adding some new moms/strains to this box (4-AutoPot setup with AirDomes) from my seed collection in time. I've decided to stick with growing White Shark only for the next few runs so that I can really come to understand this strain and develop as a grower generally before I introduce new (strain) variables.
          2. Bloombox Cloning Chamber - Currently on standby. Within the next few days, I'll be taking cuttings from the mom and to root them in my cloner.
          3. Bloombox Veg Chamber - I transplanted rooted clones from the cloner last week to veg. I'll likely top them in the next few days and they'll be moved to a Producer to flower in a couple of weeks
          4. Producer A - White Shark almost ready to harvest (1-3 more days of flush then 24-48 dark then chop). Looking VERY nice!
          5. Producer B - Currently on standby.

          I will post grow journals for each crop within the next few days. Then I'll stay on top of it and provide regular updates and - without question - I'll be reaching out to tap into the wealth of knowledge and experience here! Thanks very much for taking the time to peruse!
          Last edited by Rangi; 06-17-2018, 02:31 AM.
          Perpettual Harvest in Grow Boxes:
          • 'Mothership' (400W MH): Moms in Coco in AutoPots
          • 'Bloombox' - Cloning Chamber (125W CFL/2' T5HO): Cuttings in 48-site Aeroponic Cloner
          • Bloombox - Veg Chamber (400W MH + T5HO + CO2): 36-site, Top Feed/DWC
          • Producers ‘A' & ‘B’ Flower (2 x 400W HPS + T5HO + UV): 18-site, Top-Feed/DWC
          Current Grows:

          Comment


          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi Rangi ,
            I would love to talk to you about AirDomes!!!
            Thoughts on adding them to non auto-pots? Fabric pots with coco and frequent fertigation. Thinking of running them for a few minutes during fertigations... Any and all thoughts welcomed!

          #29
          Campesino , I just started using the AutoPots/Domes 3 months ago. So far, I'm really impressed with the product. Particularly dummy-proof for new growers (like myself) who might over/under water.

          Difficult to say how much the AirDomes contribute to the success to date, but for such a low-cost item, it didn't make sense to me not to include them in the setup. Similar in concept to the products offered by Modular Hydro (https://airinjectiontechnology.com/AIT-for-Soil_c3.htm), and I wonder with your top-feed fertigation if the "basket design" might give you more air:water contact?

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          Perpettual Harvest in Grow Boxes:
          • 'Mothership' (400W MH): Moms in Coco in AutoPots
          • 'Bloombox' - Cloning Chamber (125W CFL/2' T5HO): Cuttings in 48-site Aeroponic Cloner
          • Bloombox - Veg Chamber (400W MH + T5HO + CO2): 36-site, Top Feed/DWC
          • Producers ‘A' & ‘B’ Flower (2 x 400W HPS + T5HO + UV): 18-site, Top-Feed/DWC
          Current Grows:

          Comment


          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            So you rec the AIT over the domes? or vice versa?
            On the domes, the air doesn't actually come out of the dome, right. It comes out below... What does the dome actually do?

          #30
          That's correct ... plastic dome seems to serve only as a support structure to protect the 4 pieces of perforated tubing on the bottom. Haven't tried AIT in coco (though did give it a try in DWC and, frankly, wasn't impressed with the quality of the materials ... easily plugged, can become brittle ... nor was I impressed with the customer service I received when inquiring about product specifications pre-purchase). Nonetheless, the AIT design strikes me as more appropriate to your fertigation setup. Perhaps all the makings for a side-by-side trial?!

          Pics below were taken 2 months after transplanting from DWC. I hand watered for the first 7-10 days until they seemed to be settled and had established a decent root structure, then turned on the AutoPot and AIrDome.

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          Perpettual Harvest in Grow Boxes:
          • 'Mothership' (400W MH): Moms in Coco in AutoPots
          • 'Bloombox' - Cloning Chamber (125W CFL/2' T5HO): Cuttings in 48-site Aeroponic Cloner
          • Bloombox - Veg Chamber (400W MH + T5HO + CO2): 36-site, Top Feed/DWC
          • Producers ‘A' & ‘B’ Flower (2 x 400W HPS + T5HO + UV): 18-site, Top-Feed/DWC
          Current Grows:

          Comment


          • Campesino
            Campesino commented
            Editing a comment
            Great pics! Thanks
            Roots certainly seem to enjoy them!

            Do you agree about timing (just during and maybe a minute after fertigations)? I am able to do 4x daily now in large pots in late flower. I am thinking that with these I would be able to be at 6x maybe 7x ...Also thinking about smaller taller pots... Perhaps these https://247garden.com/247p-fp-5d.html

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