White Shark: First crop of clones!

[Rangi]

Hi folks,

This weekend, I'm transitioning all my grow journals over to this Forum and look forward to becoming an active member ... growing and learning with all of you

These clones were rooted in my aeroponic cloner then transplanted to Grodan Macroplugs inserted into 3" Rockwool one week ago. All were transplanted at the same time, but about half of them had been in the cloner for 10 days longer than the others (long story ... I'm quite a newbie to cloning ... making progress, but still have glitches to work out ... I'll be taking cuttings for a new crop in a few days, and I'll start a journal to follow them along through to cure).



All have roots in the water, although the smaller ones have only 1-2 strands in (lateral branching visible, so I think they'll come along in time). I'm being cautious about turning on the automatic top feed fertigation system (5 min each day at 3 hrs into their light period). I did this too soon in my earlier grows, and ended up with the rockwool drenched and ... yup ... root rot soon thereafter. Lesson learned. Eventually.


The Rockwool was conditioned, flushed with their first (very light) feeding solution, and allowed to drain to waste. So there was lots of moisture and nutes available even without roots in the rez and without top feedings. Day 5 post-transplant, I did hit the manual top-feed for about 3 min, as the baskets were starting to feel sufficiently "light". I won't start the daily autofeeding until they need it.

I think I should top the tallest plant in the back right corner soon. I have been trying to develop my plant training skills, and would like to follow a manifold such as that described by Nebula. I have been finding doing this a bit confusing, in terms of the asymmetrical node pattern of my clones (i.e., when I top, I seem to get one stronger and one weaker new branch).


I'm also not sure how to manage the current difference in size between the two "subgroups" of plants. Maybe there will be some "catchup?"



FYI, my general aim is to veg for about another week or so in this box, then move them to a Producer to complete veg and training, and then flip to flower.

Nutes:
FHD: Grow; Common; Veg Boom Plus; Propagator
Botanicare: CalMag+; Hydroguard
AN: B-52; Rhino Skin; VooDoo Juice

Environment:
TDS: 600
pH: 5.7 at install
Air temp: 78/70
Rez temp: 68-69

As with all my journals, I'll post updates on this crop through to their cure, if possible.

Always thrilled to receive any feedback!

[Dr.Moggs]

Hello Buddie ! 😁
Welcome to the forum! There is a lot of knowledge here and really nice growers. I hope you will appreciate as much as I do.

I subscribed and will follow your progress,

Good look !

[Rangi]

Dr.Moggs Thanks for the welcome! Happy to be here and glad you’re following along. I think I’m in the right place to learn!

[Campesino]

Love the set-up and happy to follow your grow!

I have manifolded clones and will be happy to give advice there. You can see the GG4s in my completed grow journal. Tricky part is establishing parity between the main two branches, after that I actually think clones may produce a better structure for manifolds because of asymmetry.

Cheers!

[Rangi]

Grateful for any words of wisdom you can offer along the way

I’ll take a read through your GG4 journal for sure. Thx for that lead

[Campesino]

Some of the girls are ready!

To start...
Choose two good branches that are both strong and relatively close together. Lower is better.
Top above the upper node/branch. This topping can be pretty tight (no big stump)
Pinch the main-stem in between the two nodes and bend the upper node down
Keep the upper node tip tied down lower than the lower node tip for a few days - This encourages the growth of the lower node.
Once both branches appear the same, treat them the same (release the one or tie down the other)

There aren't many pics in the journal about this early training because I launched it after the flip. I can post pics here or PM you a few. Let me know which you prefer.

[Rangi]

Campesino Awesome! I didn’t know the piece about keeping the upper node tip lower. On it tomorrow.

If if you are able to post pics here, that would be really appreciated. Tyvm.Awesome

[Campesino]

Happy to oblige!

Here are three pictures of the same GG4 Manifold on Days 12, 16, and 20. I bought clones from a dispensary (rooted in rooters) and day 1 was the day I brought them home.

I topped on Day 11 and didn't pinch her down until the following day. The first picture is day 12. My goal here is to achieve symmetry, as I discussed above. After 4 days, I felt that the lower node was taking dominance, so I released the top and let them both go free (Pic 2, Day 16). After four days, the two mains were growing well and equally, I supercropped them down. You, um, don't need to use quite such an elaborate tie down device... or a turtle (Pic 3, Day 20) !

[Rangi]

Happy to oblige!

Here are three pictures ...

I knew there was a secret ingredient I was missing ... Turtle Power! Lol

Thank you so much for taking the time to lay this out for me so clearly. Excited to give it s whirl and post updates of their (and my!) progress

[Campesino]

Oh, you're very welcome! I enjoyed looking back through the pics and doing things like this helps me organize them.

Turtle Power FTW!

[Rangi]

Manifold Structuring: Topping and removing lower growth

• This morning, just before lights on, I topped the 6 plants that were developed enough
  • I followed the guidance I received from Campesino (thanks again!) relating to creating manifolds with clones that are demonstrating asymmetrical node placement
  • I gently pinched and bent the upper node to be held down lower than the lower node, in an effort for encourage the lower node to build strength
  • I'll wait and see how they respond, and then will either release the upper node or also tie down the lower node
  • 
• I made a decision to do the topping during lights out (using a green headlamp) because I read that the growth hormones travel downward in the plant during dark. Hence, once the lights came on (I topped just very shortly before lights on), the growth hormones that were going back up the plant went into the nodes I'm keeping, not the nodes that were removed.
  • Any thoughts on that??
• Still not sure how/if it will be possible for the other 6 plants to "catch up" before flipping??
  • Those smaller plants were put in the cloner 2 weeks behind the others (won't be doing that again ... was just an experiment actually)
  • They've all got roots into the soup ... and actually over the past couple of days their roots are really starting to blast off
  • So, still hopeful I can make this work having both "subsets" of plants flower together.

[Campesino]

Hey Rangi
Looks great!
The top tip will want to take dominance, but those pinches will encourage the lower to take dominance. Your goal is to get them to be co-dominant. I have found that you want the lower to just barely take the lead before releasing or restraining them both. I am guessing maybe 3 days tied like they are. The pics look perfect!

I haven't heard that about hormones and am intrigued... Thanks for sharing, Ill see if I come across anything else about that.

The only way you are going to keep the older plants the same height as the younger ones is through training - and the training is going to spread the bigger plants out. So just think about spacing. The big plants don't have to be taller - but keeping them short will mean that they are taking up a bigger footprint.

[Rangi]

Campesino Thanks very much. Your guidance was so helpful, as is your continuing feedback.

I'll be moving all of these plants to a different box (a Producer) in the next week or so (just have to get it cleaned up and prepped). The Producer has a 2x4 layout with 18 positions, so I'll have lots of room to spread them out. And I'll certainly keep in mind your comments on spread when I choose each of their new positions. Thanks for that.

It's about 10 hrs post-topping/pruning/pinching/bending/tying (!) and they seem to be quite stable. Tips have turned up. Everyone looks happy

[Campesino]

Happy to help

As my grow wraps up for the summer I have to start living vicariously through other grows! I am particularly excited about your forest of clone manifolds!

[Rangi]

Rebound following Topping, Bending & Pruning

• The smaller plants (cut 2 wks after the others) have nice white roots swimming in the rez
  • As soon as their roots develop a bit more, and they grow another 1-2" in height (another 1-2 nodes), I'll top/bend/prune them as well
• The larger plants have beautiful root development ... certainly the best I have been able to cultivate to date
  • [Side note: I am moving forward with this grow with a guiding philosophy: "It's all about the roots". I know its cliche, but i really am forcing myself to evaluate every decision I need to make in terms of how it will impact the roots. And if there is a root issue, it will get the highest priority response. New grower learning curve. lol]
  • They seem to be recovering/responding well to the training
• I have just turned on the Auto watering. They'll now be getting 5 min top feed per day, scheduled ~ 3 hrs after lights on
• Weekly rez change tomorrow

TWO QUESTIONS:

1. This strain (White Shark) is a light drinker and I overfed (ending up with nute lockout in wk 5-6 flower) in my last grow (that I just harvested)
   • I started doing a weekly flush with Clearex as part of the rez change (drain rez; refill with RO + Clearex; circulate for 2 hrs; drain & replace with new solution)
   • They really responded well and I thought on this grow I would integrate that flush BEFORE any issue arises ... Thoughts???
   • Would it be ok to start weekly Clearex flushes tomorrow - at this early stage?? Any reasons NOT to do it??
2. I have come to understand that if you have the PPMs dialled in to the needs of the plant (relative to stage of development), the pH stays much more stable. On this last grow - and for the first time - I started developing a bit of a "feel" for whether the plants needed higher or lower ppm.
   • I transplanted them from the cloner 2 weeks ago
     • First week: ~350 ppm (same recipe as they had in the cloner)
     • Second (this) week: ~600 ppm
   • There is no sign of either excess or deficiency in the foliage; the roots look good
   • Should I increase the nutes slightly?? Or leave it as is at ~600??

Thanks folks!

[Rangi]

Campesino

Campesino , you can live vicariously through my grows any day!!

In terms of the initial training - as part of manifold development - do you recommend a certain "sequence" for (1) topping/bending/tying and (2) clearing lower growth? For example, do you top, then wait a day before clearing lower growth? Or, clear lower growth then at some later time do the topping? Intuitively, it seems that if you cleared the lower growth a bit earlier, that would focus energy to the top of the plant instead of using some to develop lower growth that is going to be removed anyway. But I'm sure there's more to it that I don't yet understand!

For this grow, as I'm waiting for those smaller plants to get tall enough to top, could/should I remove the lower growth (say, up to the 3rd node) now, then top once after 1-2 days of upward growth/recovery?

[Rangi]

Awesome!! Thanks so much Campesino. I’ll get right on that

EDIT: Done! 👍

[Rangi]

Start of Third Week since Transplant from Cloner

• Before doing the weekly rez change, I did a flush with Clearex:
  • Drained rez; Replaced with: RO + Clearex (10ml/gal); TDS = 40 ppm; pH = 5.8
  • Left it in rez for 2 hrs; Also did two 20-minute top-feed fertigations spaced ~ 1 hr apart
  • Drained rez; Replaced with fresh nutes
• The plants that have been topped are responding well
  • I've removed the 2nd node on the lateral branches on those plants that have reached that point
  • I removed the lower nodes on all plants, but left leaves intact
  • Hoping I'll be able to top the smaller plants within a few days
  • I'll be doing more tying down on the plants that have been topped ... they rebounded nicely and are pointing upward
• 
• For the larger plants, roots are looking pretty good; small ones really need to get with the program! lol

Nutes:
FHD: Grow; Common; Veg Boom Plus; Propagator
Botanicare: CalMag+; Hydroguard
AN: B-52; Rhino Skin; VooDoo Juice

Environment:
TDS: 575
pH: 5.7 at install
Air temp: 79/70
Rez temp: 68-69

[Rangi]

Thank you very much Campesino Really grateful for your guidance. I'm going to see what I can rig up today for a "tie-down system" that is flexible and adjustable yet stable. I'm thinking ..... fishing weights! If that doesn't work, I'll probably just get a bunch of turtles. I hear good things

[Rangi]

More Manifold Training

• Still no turtles (!), but the tie downs are working well
• I've removed all nodes that I don't want
• I'd like to get them moved to a Producer this week
• Roots are coming along nicely on the small plants
  • I'm thinking I might just top them or FIM them once and let them go
  • This is only my second grow of White Shark, so I have a lot to learn yet about their likes and dislikes

Campesino , in an earlier comment about removing nodes you mentioned;

I leave the fan leaves until they become shaded by upper canopy, but I do trim the tips as soon as they emerge.

I must have had a bit of tunnel vision, because I missed this when i read your post initially. I was overly focused on the node removal, I guess! So, just so I'm clear, you trim the tips of the fan leaves (similar to how many trim them when taking cuttings??) that are emerging near a removed node?? Or all fan leaves?? Sorry for my confusion!

[Rangi]

Perfect! Thanks as always, Campesino

It turns out I did - and am doing - what you have kindly re-explained to me. Sorry for the inconvenience. I am clipping the emerging growth tips that I don't want to keep and have left the leaves for now. I had an enjoyable, early-morning read and think through DrPhoton 's article on Defoliation and the discussion that followed. I think I now have a much better understanding of some of the important concepts related to pruning - perfect timing to integrate new information and suggestions with hands-on practice!

[Rangi]

UPDATE: Moved Plants to Flower Chamber

• Got these gals moved from the nursery chamber to the flower chamber yesterday
  • Ran into some technical snags when I was getting the destination chamber ready (rez cooling system malfunctioned ... turns out my solenoid valves have little filters that needed cleaning ... found this after hours of attempted diagnosis and treatment (lol) and eventually I ended up systematically disassembling the cooling system until I discovered the problem)
  • Move went ok, except for root entanglement (see below)
  • the receiving rez has basically the same recipe as where they came from, to reduce transplant shock
  • They seem a bit droopy, but perhaps they're just getting used to their new space (4x2 vs 3x2; and 800W vs 400W)
  • haven't turned on the T5s yet

• The whole timeline for these plants can be described as "behind"
  • As a new grower, I'm still learning the life course of the plants, and trying to having them in the right environment, receiving the most appropriate care/training at the correct time. Still need some calibration
• In general, my timeline should be:
  • 1-2 weeks in cloner
  • 1-2 weeks of veg/training
  • 1 week transition
  • 8+ weeks flower

• For these plants ...
  • 4 weeks in cloner for the larger ones; 2 weeks in cloner for the others
  • 3 weeks veg/training
  • 1 week transition ... still training, because I got behind
  • The roots are massive, which made moving them difficult in a few cases
    • 2 pairs of plants had their 14-16" roots entangled
    • 1 pair I cut apart with clean snips
    • 1 pair I gently pulled apart with clean hands
    • Note to self: prevention, prevention, prevention

Nutes:
FHD: Grow; Common; Veg Boom Plus; Propagator
Botanicare: CalMag+; Hydroguard
AN: B-52; Rhino Skin; VooDoo Juice

Environment:
TDS: 650
pH: 5.7 at install
Air temp: 80/72
Rez temp: 68-69