Update (1st grow): Do I water? Feed? Wait longer?

[Gingerbeard]

I just realized another something with my auto experience. All my auto grows have been from F1 seeds. Phenos have been Jekel and Hyde.
My best recall is my last grow of about 12 ounces from four plants. 320ish watts of light. 9 square feet of space. Filled every cubic inch. Somewhere around 11 weeks from seed-to-harvest.
Those are things to consider, too, realhuuuman420. Grams per square foot and grams per watt.
You were not using BioBizz soil? That pretty much craps on everything said about hot soil killing your plant. Well, remember everything when you go legit. No nutes is good nutes for seedlings. Water slow, all at once.

[Rwise]

Autos is a big word, the time line for autos varies so much, I have grown them that finished in 58 days (and only 18" tall) and other that were still going strong at 120 days (over 4 feet tall). Obviously the longer growth time gives larger harvests, so be sure of how long they are expected to take from sprout to harvest.

[realhuuuman420]

Gentlemen, it seems nutrient deficiency (lock out?) is getting worse. Tips of the latest leaves are turning purple-ish brown-ish. A quick search revealed the culprit: molybdenum defficiency! This makes the most sense to me, since apparently this is rare and only happens if the pH is too low. Mine is too low. Could be as low as 5.3, but most likely not higher than 5.6.

Considering the pH, it could be a combination of the above and phosphorus def.

I am getting pH UP the day after tomorrow. Last watering was 60 hours ago. Weight test confirmed that most water I used has been used up/evaporated.

So now, which one of these options do I use....
a) water now/in the next few hours, while also adding BioBizz Bloom to the water. This should adjust the pH too.
b) water in 48+ hours when I get pH UP from BioBizz, adding both pH UP and Bloom nutes to the water, and testing until I get a pH of 7.
c) both
d) water now, using the nutes, and if the nutes don't bring the pH up enough, also add baking soda to the mix until the desired pH is achieved. This would be a temporary fix until I get my pH UP product.

See pics for reference. I don't know how feasible using baking soda is, or how much of an emergency the low pH is right now. If she can survive until I get my pH UP product, I still am not sure whether to water now, or wait for pH UP, or both.

EDIT: after reading around a bit, seems like using a tiny bit of baking soda as a temporary ph UP is a good idea, while I wait for the actual product to arrive. Unless anyone has any objections, I shall water in a couple of hours with 1L of water, a pinch of baking soda, and 1 ml of BioBizz Bloom. Then test the runoff + the soil and use pH up as needed with next watering.

EDIT2: Ended up going with option D. The nutes did not affect the pH too much, it stayed at 5.5, so I added a pinch of sodium bicarbonate, which brought it up to 6.7-6.9. This should be perfect and eventually the soil pH should balance itself at around 6.3, we will see.

Got no runoff as I used a proper watering technique and all. Will post an update in a couple of days and see how she reacts!

[Rootsruler]

If the media is dry water now with BioBizz. What do you have to be able to measure the pH after you've added the nutrient into the water? Strips?

[Gingerbeard]

Oof...
Why Beginners Should Grow Auto-Flowering Strains | Grow Weed Easy

[Rwise]

I too say start with photos, autos do not recover well (no time for it) when (not if) you have issues. Autos certainly have their place, but cannot be cloned (well they can but they do not reset to veg). Photos can finish as fast as an auto, can be recovered cloned and use less electricity to grow. One does not need to keep buying the seed, they can make their own as long as the plant is not a triploid as they can not make viable seed (whether they are photo or auto).

[Rootsruler]

While I agree with growmore15, I understand why OP decided to go with autos. He doesn't smoke much but wanted the experience and now he's hooked.

realhuuuman420 - After you harvest this and experience the dry and cure portion, I suggest, again, that you go with a photo period seed and grow a big plant so that you can grow lots of flowers. I understand that you don't smoke much so you don't need much but in the dry and cure portion of the grow I like to cure for 5 to 6 months to catch the flowers at their peak so I would do the photo grow. Dry and cure for the next 5 months while you grow autos waiting for the photo flowers to fully cure. You'll be happy you did!!

[realhuuuman420]

Rootsruler drying and curing for five months? did you want to say five days?

You only got half the reason really. My biggest issue is time. This is a stealth grow, and in all likelyhood, I will not have more than 3.5 months of uninterrupted time anytime soon. And unfortunately, you cannot just put a plant on pause and resume in a few weeks... so autos, especially the ones with a short lifespan, like 8-10 weeks, seemed like the best (and only) option.

But if you show me someone growing a photo from seed to harest within 10 weeks, then that's what I'll do as well. I understand very well that photos are easier and more forgiving, and that autoflowers are racing against time since their ancestors had to go through their entire lifecycle within a couple of months.

[Rwise]

I chose an auto only and solely because of time constraints. Otherwise, I would have chosen a photo seed. I was under the impression that photos need at least 3 months before you switch them to flowering, and then at least a few weeks before they're ready for harvest. Add to that time for drying and you have a large difference - 2 or more months, as compared to autos, which can go from seed to harvest within 10 weeks.

Am I missing something?

Simply flip to 12/12s at 3-5 weeks old, now Colombian Purple would not finish as fast as an auto as it likes up to 20 weeks in flower, so chose your seed well. Waiting longer to flip gives more buds to harvest.

[realhuuuman420]

And... in ideal conditions.. I could do it within 3 months, just like with autos? from seed to harvest? the only difference being that I would also have the option of recovery in case shit happens?

Do people do this? Like, ever? I'm sure I can't be the only one?

[Rootsruler]

I think Rwise is counting on the stretch period that your seedling would go into once the hormonal signals happen to be the "veg" portion of the grow.

[Gingerbeard]

Is 12-12 From Seed Worth It? | Grow Weed Easy

[Gingerbeard]

Your schedule has you home for about three months at a stretch. How long are you gone?
What about drying in the pot? Just stop watering.

[realhuuuman420]

For a week or two, give or take. And for obvious reasons, having someone take care of the plant meanwhile is not an option

[realhuuuman420]

Hi all! Here's a short update. I think I have some problem but I cannot identify what this is. Some white spots on two leaves. WPM? I hope as hell it is not WPM. But if it is, I think I'm catching it early enough to deal with it?

Otherwise, she seems to be doing okay! No vertical growth, I guess she won't stretch anymore. But what do I know. This is day 3 of week 6 since sprout.

• watered with 900 ml distilled water
• added BioBizz Bloom 0.6 ml
• added 0.5ml of pH UP (BioBizz)
• pH of soil before watering: 5.8-6 (reading was unreliable, used like 5 strips, but the average seems to be a believable 5.8-6) - seems like the sodium bicarbonate helped
• pH of water used - 6.4-6.5 (again, unreliable readings, but I narrowed it down to this range)
• lowered the light by additional 5cm as the plant showed no signs of light stress
• it got hotter again and will get even hotter next week. temps averaged out at 30C
• rH decreased steadily over the past 3 days down to 38% (despite my desperate attempts with humidifiers and spraying the walls and whatnot), but now rising quickly after watering
• rH after watering: 55%+
• did not get runoff (yet), but if there is some, will pH test that

Posting some pics. The white spots are only on two bottom leaves. Couldn't get a better picture as the plant is so small and dense.

Under microscope, these don't look like anything really. They look just like on the pic, just bigger but at least I ruled out any pests or insects. Also, I cannot take them off mechanically, so this is inside of the leaf - maybe just some discoloration? Maybe an effect of the sodium bicarbonate? I did not use too much, was very careful with that.

Seems to be forming buds alright! And they're becoming... frosty.

Anyway. What's up with those white spots? Is it possible these are thrips? Theoretically, they could have gotten inside, because I also have other plants, outside, and they may have hitched a ride on my clothes. Still, all I see are white spots that are inside of the leaves, and nothing else. But I could just not be seeing it since it's hard to inspect properly due to the size of the plant.

EDIT: Looked again with a microscope. Right where those white spots are, under a 120x microscope. I can see what looks like webbing. On the webbing, there are little specks of what looks like just dirt/soil, totally invisible to naked eye, and extremely hard to locate with a microscope.

Gave it another good look, I see nothing anywhere else on the plant. Nothing under any leaves, or on the soil, nothing flying or moving. Only these white spots, and microscopic strands that look like webbing in the middle of that leaf.

Could these be spider mites? But where are they?


Thanks!

[Allenpro]

Looks like eggs to me and if it is I would toss it all in a fire pit but I have post traumatic Spider Mite disorder and screw a bunch of lady bugs, lazy bastards wont eat them all. Mighty from NPK industries is the only thing I found that will kill them and their eggs and wont kill you like neem oil, etc.

[realhuuuman420]

Allenpro these are not eggs. Like I said, under a microscope, it's literally just leaf with spots that have a different (white-ish) color. It's not something on top of the leaf, it's the leaf itself. It's like a few microscopic drops of acid was dropped on those leafs. Or idk. I have no idea what on earth can this be. Been looking for spider mites for hours now and I didn't find a single one, not even an egg.

[Gingerbeard]

I see translucent green objects. Sea sluggish, but not exactly. Can't tell about the white spots but they might have something to do with the translucent green objects that are not sea slugs.
If you see webbing with what looks like dirt, you probably have spider mites, and the dirt is probably spider mite poo.
This is where having a fan directly on your plants comes in as a bug deterrent. I got rid of Norwegian death bugs (aphids) with fans.
No. There really isn't anything you can do about it this late. Spray wise, I mean. A fan might help. Tibetan death chants. Selective napalming.

[realhuuuman420]

But the webbing is really.. scarce, you know? Absolutely nothing like any webbing I can see on a photo on the internet. Only visible under the microscope, and there are maybe 4 strands going from one side of a leaf to the other side, with some random pieces of soil stuck on them (and they really do look like soil - I mean, under the microscope, and I did accidentally throw some soil on some leaves a few weeks ago).

I will monitor it closely (as I always do) and see what happens. No way I'm letting some lil fuckers eat my baby.

Is there such a thing as quantum spider mites? Like they only exist when you're not looking at them?

EDIT: 'scuse me, sea slugs?

[Rootsruler]

For PM you can use a mixture of milk and water to get rid of it. Foliar spray all over the plant both below and above leaves.

[Gingerbeard]

How much webbing does it take to concern you?
Spider mites are not the only insects to spin webs. It could actually be a spider. Cocoons are wrapped and stuck with webbing. However, quantum spider mites are a real thing, and you should be spending a lot of time looking for them. Quantum sea slugs are a good deterrent.
And it could be dirt. You know better what you have going on because you have the plant. We can only talk about what we see.
There are options for keeping your plant moist for a week or two. A good watering just before you go will give you a week, maybe. Then there are watering globe things you stick in the soil. You have options for away time.

[realhuuuman420]

Gingerbeard these pics were the most difficult pics I ever took, but they show what I mean by "webbing"... on both of them you can see a white strand of, well, webbing? the second one is blurry, but still there.

It's literally like 3-4 strands in total. There are some specks of dirt/soil on some of them, like the black one on the picture. They are about 10x thinner than hair, so even with a microscope, I can barely see it at all. I only spotted it at first because some of these specks of dirt were floating in the air, and after adjusting the lenses, the 'webbing' appeared.

So, I mean, quantum spider mites? )

Is there anything else that could cause white spots like that?

[Gingerbeard]

Spider mites are not the only leaf suckers. Spider mites seem to be the most common web spinning leaf suckers people post about. So, let's keep talking about them, based on the information you have provided. But let's call them quantum web spinning leaf suckers (qwespils) because it looks like you have webbing, and it looks like you have sucked leaf white spots, but we do not see any spider mites. And we will assume from the pictures that the white spots are qwespils damage.
It doesn't take but a single qwespils to spin a few threads. At most, it takes two qwespilses to proper populate your plant. One or two qwespilses are suuuper hard to see, even with a microscope. The more powerful the microscope, the harder it will be to see only a handful of qwespilses since the more you magnify, the less area you see. A jeweler's loupe is pretty common for magnification and area coverage.
Keep an eye on things. Watch for more webbing and white spots. Keep leaves from touching. Get your fan to your plant. I keep a 6" fan about 12"-16" on the lowest setting.

[realhuuuman420]

Thanks a lot. qwespils huh

I'm not sure if or how can I keep leaves from touching. They're so dense and close to each other, all of them, bottom, top.

[Rootsruler]

realhuuuman420

If you have a current android phone, the zoom should be enough to be able to get a close picture. I have a Samsung S23 and the zoom is sufficient to be able to see spider mites clearly. Inspect the top and bottom of the leaves. Mature Spider Mites will be on both the top and bottom of the leaves but they are VERY small so it can be hard to see them unless you have a good zoom. Better to look for the eggs which they like to use the bottom of the leaves for.

All I see in your pics is a reflection of your eye and some hazy shit that is hard to discern what it is. Try and take better pics so that we can see what the issue is. Hopefully they aren't Mendo mites or Russet mites. Those bastards are REALLY hard to kill off completely. If you're seeing webbing I'm sorry to say that you are already in the late stages of your infestation so the plan is to control rather than exterminate. In these cases I like to use a product called Azamax. It's a broad spectrum miticide that will kill a lot of different insects you don't want in your garden. It's OMRI certified and the manufacturer says you can spray it on fruits and vegetables 10 days prior to harvest but I wouldn't feel comfortable using it that close to harvest. Maybe 4 weeks from harvest but no closer than that.

Also, if you do have a mite infestation, you're going to need to bleach down the tent it's in and the lung room the tent is in after you harvest. Even then I can't say with all certainty that you'll get rid of them all.

I've had friends that got mite infestations, and they had to abandon the room for a year to make sure the mites were gone even though they bleached the room and tent. Hopefully that's not the case for you.

When I worked in licensed grow ops I used to think the cleanliness protocols we had to follow were excessive but having to deal with 500 infected plants in a room is no fun and can be VERY costly. I get it and try and follow them as closely as I can. Some people think I'm being redundant and overly cautious but I can say I haven't had to deal with bugs for over a decade now.

[Rootsruler]

You can order the Azamax and, in the meantime, just give the plant a hard spray of water to knock them off the plant. The alcohol/water mix is also a good intermediate solution. I've also heard the peppermint oil works for a lot of different pests. You could give the plant a hard spray to physically knock them off then, spray the plant with the alcohol solution. When you spray the plant you want to be sure to spray both top and bottom of the leaves. Essentially you want every surface of the plant, leaves and branches, to be covered in the alcohol solution. I would also add a few spritzes of the alcohol solution to the top soil to deter any larvae from growing. After that I would spray the plant every other day with some insecticidal soap that you can also make yourself. It consists of water, vegetable oil and dish soap. Once the Azamax shows up you can do the same type of overall spray and follow the suggested program the manufacturer lists. This should keep your infestation in control until you harvest your plant. IME, with Azamax, for late stage infestations you're going to want to be spraying them at least every few days in the beginning for the first couple weeks and once you see that the population has decreased substantially you can do maintenance sprays once every couple weeks.

[realhuuuman420]

Thanks a lot, Rootsruler , I sprayed the plant with 2:8 alcohol:water solution yesterday. Will order Azamax too, should at least arrive for my next growth.

Do I have to remove the bottom leaves that were infected? Do I keep them?

[Rwise]

that spray needs to be done every 3 days for at least 3 treatments, I myself remove anything close to the ground.

[Gingerbeard]

... and check the bottoms of leaves...

[Bowhunterwoody]

Definitely the underside.