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**Allenpro** · 08-02-2024, 04:48 PM

It looks dry to me but I am not a soil grower so wait for someone that is before you act

**realhuuuman420** · 08-03-2024, 04:36 PM

Watered today with 1L of distilled water, got like a 7.5% runoff, pH tested that and it gave me the same consistent 5.4 - 5.5 ph.
It grew a lil bit again, and other than a little crack on the top leaf, no changes, save for more leaf growth all around.

Looks good! Well, considering that I drowned the poor thing for weeks

I want to flush it as Bluey suggested in 3-4ish days. Would love if someone told me how exactly to do that - should I pour like 5 liters? 10? 3? I don't want to stress her too much.
After that, I'll wait another 3-4 days, and then water normally with approx. 700 ml + 0.5 ml of BioBizz Bloom.

There should still be about 6-7 weeks before harvest. I remain hopeful.

**Allenpro** · 08-04-2024, 09:46 AM

I grow in hydro and rarely flush but the site below looks like it has the info you need

How and When to Flush Cannabis | CleanLeaf

https://cleanleaf.com/how-and-when-to-flush-cannabis.php

Flushing cannabis effectively removes build-up and allows plants to absorb any nutrients that are still in the soil.

When you start to feed again make sure the PH is up between 6.5 & 7.5 for soil

**realhuuuman420** · 08-04-2024, 12:54 PM

Update: It's been 32 hours since watering with 1L, the plant looks as good as before, or at least, not worse. Look at the top 2 layers of leaves - I have never seen such beautiful, symmetrical leaves on this plant before. I didn't think this lil girl had it in her!

There's new growth! Up to 11 cm height now, plus horizontal growth too.

Posting some fresh pics, also the whole setup on Gingerbeard's request. The little fan is clipped on the tent from the outside, blowing air through the vent. As you can see, there's just enough space for the pot and a small humidifier. It's off now, as the rH is relatively good since I watered - started out at 70% and gradually decreasing, now at 60% after 32 hours. Will start the humidifier on medium setting for the night.

Temp is 28C - I couldn't ask for more honestly.

The yellow edges/tips have progressed slightly!

I didn't flush anything yet. Still not completely sure if I should? Or should I just straight up feed it a low dose of BioBizz Bloom with the next watering?

And when should the watering happen? I'm trying to get used to the weight of the pot, but... I'm not feeling it. I think 3-4 days should be fine? How much, a liter again? Two liters? Or - flush it by pouring 2.5, waiting for half an hour, then another 2.5?

Are the yellow tips from nutrient toxicity, e.g. Nitrogen, or is it nutrient lockout and therefore Phosphorus deficiency, or simply just a Phosphorus deficiency? Ugh.

Bottom fan leaves almost dead. I had a minute of silence for them. Rest in peace, fan leaves.

**Gingerbeard** · 08-04-2024, 01:51 PM

I am going to throw down with a stunted plant diagnosis. Super technical. Basically, you have had some problems and your plant won't get much bigger. Since this is an auto, you do not have the chance to correct everything. Only, correct things from happening.
Something I don't remember. I don't need to know the supplier, but where did you get your seed? Friend? Bagseed? Dispensary? Online?
But here's some real good news. The next seed you grow will be infinitely better.
About your tent. It looks like you only have one fan inside for circulation. Get another one. I don't see an exhaust fan in your top exhaust port. If there isn't one, you need one if the tent is ever closed. Looks good otherwise.
Your pH question. I'm going back to what we've talked about with Biobizz. What does the company say about pHing water for their product?
Plus all that other stuff we talked about...

**Rootsruler** · 08-04-2024, 02:29 PM

I don't have a lot of experience with autos but from what I know you've missed the window in regard to vegging your plant. For all the reasons that you already know.

Autos have finite time windows in which you can develop your plant before it goes into flower. The pre-pistils that it is now showing are indicating that the plant is going into flower mode.

Let the plant go to flower and learn from your experience.

IMO, your next run should be in cannabis specific soil like Fox Farms or Happy Frog, I like using Roots Organic Original, using feminized photoperiod seeds. I think all beginning gardeners should. Starting out with auto seeds is a recipe for disaster for the new grower a lot of the time. It has its pros but photos give you a chance to learn how to correct issues that may crop up. Autos are finicky as you have now learned and limit your chances of correcting issues.

Flushing and other similarly hard techniques are not recommended for autos as they will stunt easily and take a long time to get back into growth mode. IMO, autos are best suited for those with some experience under their belt so that they can catch issues early and correct or keep the plant on track so that it is able to maximize its potential. Can autos be grown successfully? Yes. There are growers on this site that have lots of experience with them and can grow them to their full potential but it takes time and experience to do that.

As far as your questions, as Allenpro said, your soil looks dry. Not sure what type of soil you have but it also looks very dense adding to the issues that you have but it sounds like you already know that. The yellowing leaves at the bottom and the healthy leaves at the top are another sign that the plant is going into flower. What I'm also seeing is the leaf edges sawtoothing and curling meaning they are under some sort of stress. I'm going to say it's a combination of light stress along with whatever is going on under the soil line. Your giving it just water has added to the stunted growth you are experiencing. I would have started feeding after the first set of leaves showed up. Again, autos have finite time windows for vegging so knowing how to maximize the vegetative state is critical when it comes to autos if you want to maximize your dry yield harvest. I see no signs of N toxicity.

Has anyone shown you how to water your plant properly? There are many different ways that people use to water their plants and I don't want to be negative about anyone elses process so I'll explain mine. I use the light pot method to determine when it's time to water. Before I water I lift my pots to see how heavy they are. If they are light it means the media has been dried by both evaporation and the plants uptake of water. I'll start with 1/4 liter of water and start watering around the outer half of the media making sure not to pour too much water into any one area. I like to use a 2 liter soda bottle if I'm hand feeding and poke holes in the cap to use as a watering can. Makes it easy to direct a soft flow of water wherever I think it needs it. If water is coming out the sides of the bag you are watering too fast. After I've watered in the 1/4 liter I'll wait a few minutes to let it soak into the media and reverse the hydrophobic conditions it's probably in due to the dryback period. After the water has soaked into the media for a few minutes, I'll rewater the same area going slowly making sure no water is coming out the sides and I'll wait to see water coming out of the bottom of the bag. After that I'll water around the main stem and over the root ball making sure water runs out the bottom of the bag. At this point the media should all be wet. There is one caveat to that method and it's dependent on the media you've chosen. I use cannabis centric soil medias that are fast draining meaning they have large chunks of particles in them for faster drainage. The difference in weight will be much more noticeable than in a dense media like the one you have. In your case I would go with feeding every 4 or 5 days due to the medias ability to hold onto water and the small root system that your plant has limiting its ability to take up water. This is a rough guideline so adjust as you see fit.

In regard to your lighting. Do you have a means to measure the light energy you are providing your plant? There are free apps to measure your PPFD or the usable light spectrum that your plant uses. I have an android phone so I use Tent Buddy but for Iphones there are a few like Photone. If you want to know where the optimal height is for your plant download it onto your phone and use it to measure the PPFD your light is providing. You can also use the chart below to roughly determine at what height and intensity your light should be set to achieve the light energy you want to provide your plant. Look into Daily LIght Integral(DLI) as a guideline to how much light energy you should give your plants for future grows.

Your feed question. Yes, Feed it nutes. Start with 1/2 dose. I've never run BioBizz but I've heard it is pretty strong and with your plants weakened state I don't think it will be able to deal with more than a 1/2 dose anyways.

As I mentioned in the beginning, Flushing is an extreme technique that should never be utilized except as a last resort. Flushing gets used for different purposes. IMO, the legitimate use is if you've over fed your plants introducing a high level of nutrients that will lockout other nutrients. You have done neither. The Broscience use is to flush at the near harvest to remove any residual nutrient that is in the flower so that it smokes smoother and cleaner. I have done side by sides and have experienced zero difference. My opinion? Don't do it.

I would not recommend you using distilled or demineralized water. Unless your tap water has contaminants or heavy metals in it I would use it as is. Your local water district should be able to provide you with a report detailing what your water has in it. Well water can be used but should be tested for any water borne contaminants that may be in it due to it not being processed first. Usually municipal tap water will contain minerals but most of those minerals are magnesium and calcium. Both are minerals your plant wants and needs. The idea of using water stripped of any minerals comes from industrial grows where contaminants can take down an entire crop. Is it necessary? Not really but certainly good practice when you have a million dollar crop that you don't want to take any chances on anything decreasing plant performance.

Red stems can either be too much mag or they're genetically inclined to do that. In your case I'm going with genetics. I wouldn't worry about it.

pH strips are ok but I prefer dedicated pens as strips can vary quite a bit. If you decide to invest in a pen buy a quality one. I like BlueLab. Apera is another good choice. Don't waste your money on Amazon/Chinese pens. Better to stick with strips. Having a tool or tools to be able to measure pH and PPM accurately in the feed solution are important in diagnosing issues. Soil typically has buffers in it to help stabilize pH so pH measurement is more important in water culture type grows but, IMO, even in soil it is good practice. Maybe not necessary but good practice nonetheless.

**Rootsruler** · 08-04-2024, 02:33 PM

Read and learn....

This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.

First I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.

PERCHED WATER TABLE

What is it?

The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel each other out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers' issues with watering practices especially in soil grows.

WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION

CAPILLARY action is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.

In short adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)

Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.

So as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and at the point gravity and these properties cancel eachother out is the perched water table.

This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". Which means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.

Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.

DIFFERENT MEDIA

Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.

The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.

By adding things like perlite or vermiculite (while vermiculite is good at absorbing water it also improves drainage so its helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throught the media while increasing drainage due to its size) we can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and inturn the height of the perched water table.

Media's like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.

Adding thing like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because as I said the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.

Basically the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.

If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.

If you feel you have over watered or your perched water table height is to high you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.

POT SIZE

I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.

I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.

You also don't want a pot that's to tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.

Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see sooo often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DRIVES ME NUTS! Why? Because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though tap roots grow straight down so we need to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.

It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in o2. If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.

Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So again it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weekss depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it become much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so its less likely to over water and why up potting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.

POT MATERIAL

Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.

This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the lager the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in, say, fabric pots. This, imo, has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for o2 levels in the root zone that I feel are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.

It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of o2 and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich o2 and water. Hydro similar with slightly less o2, soiless media's such as coco and I would possible include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and its not hard to see the difference in thier air holding capacity in that order. And the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expell co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY

The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.

The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs

The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.

Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.

The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.

First, let me say that this next part is opinion, and I will give my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Dr.Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well, it's 2-fold because of the cool temps the viscosity (Measurment of flow rate) of the sap will decrease so it's harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher (but you just said it slows absorption) well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symptom many refer to as overwatering which, again, is lack of o2. Now take a cold rootzone where the plants slow water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recover is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.

So, get your pots up off the floor

WET AND DRY CYCLES

in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symptoms of over watering and help with o2 levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of o2 quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gauge watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.

This is much less of an issue when using soilless like coco or peat/perlite.

**Gingerbeard** · 08-04-2024, 03:02 PM

I was going to disagree with you Rootsruler about starting with photo seeds. I was going to say how much easier fem are. But then I realized I've been growing for a bit. I have my poop in a group have not run into many issues.
What is going on in this thread really is a hint that you need your poop in a group before starting autos. When an auto runs into problems, there is scant time to correct issues to the point of the plant getting back to a good, healthy bud growing business.
Fem are good because you don't have to worry about males creeping in. But straight ol' photoperiod are the best to learn with as you are able to learn the difference between male and female as well as proper feeding and watering and stuff and junk.
Three cheers for bagseed! Huzzah... and so on...
All that other you wrote... um... yeah...

**realhuuuman420** · 08-04-2024, 04:02 PM

Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate all the advice.

Now, just one thing, I totally agree with autos being more difficult - and feminized autos on top of that - but, the thing is, I simply don't have 6 months now for growing a single plant. I have neither the time, nor the space. I (will) have a couple of opportunities in a year, and they will rarely be bigger than 3.5 months. Hence why, unfortunately, it's only autos for me, and will be for a long time.

But hey. It can only get better than this, huh?

And again, seeing as none of you have told me to just abandon ship and start a new growth instead, it must mean it is not a completely worthless plant. It is in flowering now, I know that, so I'll try to do the best I can for it. And as soon as this is over and done, I'll take two weeks to gather all the proper supplies for my next growth, and pop the next seed in. The next one's gonna be purple! So, proper soil, I will manufacture a fabric pot, Ginger inspired me. And I may or may not be spending a whole bunch of money on BioBizz products, seeing as this seems to be only known brand that's available to me.i

I've just realized you can weight the damn thing before and after watering. slaps forehead

EDIT: So... I won't be flushing for now. Will feed it with next watering. But I was thinking - is it worth attempting to replant it, so that I can add perlite? Or would that just create more issues at this stage.

**Gingerbeard** · 08-04-2024, 04:07 PM

I have 4, 6" fans going in my 3x3x6 tent. That's above the plants. Putting another couple muffin fans over the coco is not out of the question. Nor is directing one over the light, out the tent.
Fans are not just about cooling your plant. Fans defend plants from bugs landing and keep leaf moisture levels low to avoid things like WPM and leaf septoria. Make sure to keep air flowing in the back corners of your tent where you are the most likely to develop WPM and LS.
A plant also grows stronger as it bends and flexes.

**Gingerbeard** · 08-04-2024, 04:20 PM

Transplanting will give you transplant shock. You are bordering on drug abuse.
Instead of starting all over, continue with what you have. At least use the soil you have. There probably aren't enough roots to worry about. A vegging auto needs the same light as a flowering auto. And since your soil is no longer hot, put your next seed in the next time you go to water. Water only for a seed. You can even take a scoop out of your pot and go for a Solo cup to get going.
Feminized and photoperiod seeds veg as long as you want. The difference between those and autos is you have no control over the lifespan of an auto. My autos have been done in less than 12 weeks. More like 11. Fem and photo will veg until you switch light schedule. When I grew those, I did an 8 week veg that included 2 toppings, and flowering usually took another 8 weeks. A 4-week topless veg would have given me fair plants. I figure I'm saving a month by growing autos.
Of course, flowering times vary greatly between strains. Consideration given.

**Gingerbeard** · 08-04-2024, 04:53 PM

I'm trying to be positive. See what happens with your little one.
Haven't you been using BioBizz? That is what we have been talking about. I think you are a little apprehensive about giving out too much information. Can you at least tell us what country you are in? Someone might be able to make geographic recommendations. You are talking liters and Celsius so I know you aren't in the US.
Jiffy pot... transplant... plastic bag... Amigo, simplify. Put your seed in its final pot. Every time you transplant you run the risk of damage. That transplant shock I mentioned? Yeah, it's a real thing. It's like you changing diets: there will probably be repercussions.

**Rootsruler** · 08-04-2024, 10:47 PM

My last grow I used clones propagated from a mother I had going so I shortened my veg time by around 2 weeks. The entire grow took 15 weeks and I dry yielded 4 lbs with 5 plants.

**Rootsruler** · 08-05-2024, 12:43 AM

I guess the question would be if you grew 5 autos simultaneously to harvest, let's say 12 weeks to chop, how much dry yield to you think you'd be able to harvest? I'm not all that familiar with what an typical auto will produce. I know photos can produce around 3 -4 ozs of dry weight per plant if you just let them grow on their own without any training or special methods. I'm assuming the same with autos?

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