To many kola's

[oldjarhead100]

I never thought that was a possibility, I was reading in ATU 4th year grow and she mentioned she had to many kolas should of had 10 instead of 22 ,and the light bulb went off .I see those big massive kola's others grow and I've grown some fantastic ones . As growers we are always trying to increase yield ,Can we over try and actually decrease yield .

So heres my question has anyone else noticed a difference in kola size when have 20 to 40 kolas , I noticed it awhile back but always thought it was lights,ferticating ,space ect. it never occurred to me that 2 many would make them all suffer ,but looking back all of my plants with lots and lots of kolas had smaller kolas .could this be why , I know that when I fire up the grow room I will be fluxing plants some with 8 kolas and some with 20 or more same plants , I'm hoping this will turn into a great discussion ,Thank you ATU for getting the brain to work today but please dont do that more than twice a week LOL

[alltatup]

OJH, like I wrote on my topic, I'm going back to read stuff over and see if I can put it all together better. I'm definitely limiting colas on the next grow, I just have to know how to do that right, because when I switch to flower, all these other colas shoot up. I remember Nebula writing something about doing too much clipping and damaging the final harvest, so I gotta hit the books (tutorials) again.

[Obi-Wan]

SoOrbudgal The timing of removal is a critical component and unfortunately it varies depending on a growers style, training method, space and lights. For me, I start in the very beginning in Veg when I train for my base plant structure, 4 mains then topped again for 8 mains, all other nodes get removed. I may keep a few around specifically to cut for clones but otherwise they get removed. Once I have my base structure set I won’t remove any more until they are a couple weeks into flower and then a few more a couple weeks later. As you said, overcrowding needs to be addressed, so for me it’s addressed as they stretch during the early weeks of flower. This way I can keep those side branches that grow up into open space but remove those that would have caused crowding.

[D.A.A.S.69]

alltatup the first auto I grew was a NLights from Nirvana, I didn't know how they grew, but on this one I trained the hell out of her ,to keep her flat, an got just a couple of grams short of 8ozs.dry. I've grown a few more like that, but that was to much work for me, I'm old, lol.
I got to liking , cutting all them other ,bud sites off the stalk after bending them over, an only leaving 8-10 colas, called heads ,back in the day, and they got bigger, plus it was alot easier. That was when they was saying you couldn't top an auto. I was gonna put a picture on here, but I don't guess I can.

[alltatup]

D.A.A.S.69 Post the picture!! Just make your own post, this is such a good topic, everyone will love seeing it.

[Tersky]

I have always understood (never really tested tho) that the more cola's you have the smaller the individual colas are. The way i think of it is like a pie graph. No mater how you divide it, the pie doesnt get larger but the pieces get smaller depending on how many pieces there are. That being said im sure that explanation is a vastly oversimplified and more an educated guess than anything. Love to hear more of what everyone else has to say!

[alltatup]

Tersky Except that the pie's gonna have the same number of calories, but will a bunch of smaller colas have the same potency and weight of fewer larger colas? I hope so!!!!!!!!

[Tersky]

Well my assumption was all things being equal, and you're right making everything equal is not easy. It also depends on drying and curing ect but i was more focused on yield than potency aspect. If done correctly the smaller colas should have the same weight in terms of yield, however i'm sure there is a point where there are too many colas and not enough space for buds to develop properly. Now on potency, i would have to say idk. I want to say it would be the same or almost as good but i have no evidence for that. I'd like to know that too but i dont have the resources to test it.

[Gingerbeard]

Maybe I just prefer looking at big nugs than small.

[smoorman]

It would seem like you'd have to really focus on the root system to expect to have more AND bigger colas. A given root system is only going to provide X amount of nutrients to pass through. Do a few large colas result in more usable bud than a bunch of small ones? It seems the small buds from a large number of bud sights would have more "overhead" in producing those buds.
And you guys should really listen to me because I'm almost through my 2nd grow so I really know what I'm talking about.

[s62]

LOLOL! You’re an expert, just like me!

[alltatup]

smoorman You are wise, oh obi wan k-newbie!!! ;-} I think I really failed to produce as much as I could have on my last grow because of 22 colas where there should have been 8 or 10. I've never gotten near harvesting 6 oz off of one plant with around 10 really phat colas. My goal for next grow, starting soon.

[Spidermite]

I rarely limit my colas. If I can get the cola light and wind I leave it. I also have steadily increased my pots size too. That being said some strains do very well with lots of colas and some suffer in both yield and quality from what I've seen. So the answer to this question is going to be a very difficult one to answer. All of this above is referring to inside grows.

Outside is a whole other game and I dont think translates well into inside.

[Toker1]

Totally agreed! There is a point of diminished returns. Only, there is no cookie cutter answer. Some strains do better than others. Some stalks grow longer and wider than others. Light, wind, and structure is what I try and focus on for fat buds.

[JohnEmad]

Too many tomatoes on the vine will often lessen the size of the tomatoes (Quality) but not necessarily the overall yield. This year with less then ideal outdoor conditions I had a pile of small tomatoes. I did not trim the plants enough and let too many side shoots grow. Too many blooms etc.
Not what is desired imo.

I am trying for less colas with my 1st auto grow. We shall see. Topped one NL/MX cross and the other left to go natural.

My next photoperiod grow I will let the root systems fully develop before going into flower and will test both more and less colas of the same strain in the same growing area. Will be interesting to see the result.
That brings another question to mind.

Is Quality and Potency always associated with Quantity?

I have read it is not and certain stresses on the plant can make it more poternt while lessening yields.
I am sure many of you know this but me I am still such a rookie and hopefully will learn this.
Luv this forum.

[alltatup]

You wrote, "Is Quality and Potency always associated with Quantity?" My understanding is definitely not. Gorilla Glue gives a "moderate yield" (whatever that means) but is super-high potency, and I know some strains always produce really huge buds, but may not be as high in THC %.

We are glad you're here!!!

[Obi-Wan]

The general rule I try to follow is that each topping will double the number of colas you have while cutting your cola size in half. Having more smaller colas can be advantageous for growers that battle issues with bud rot, the idea being that the smaller colas are less susceptible than larger colas would be. More colas shouldn’t necessarily reduce yield as long as the colas are able to be trained for ideal light penetration. The idea of training for multiple colas isn’t to increase yields but to maximize the yield potential the plant already has through better light management.

[Spidermite]

Yes I agree if you have the right light, air flow, and nutrients the number of colas should increase yield. That is the trick. Getting everything just right.

[alltatup]

Exactly what Nebula says: Use your same lights but increase your harvest with the right techniques.

[Gingerbeard]

Since I'm a bagseeder I have more time to watch my bud sites for slackers. One bs on each side of the stem. If one is just a nub while the other is twoish inches, the slacker nub goes away. I've noticed in my almost year experience that if you have a slacker and an achiever, you get a smallish slacker cola on one side and medium achiever cola on the other. With just the achiever I get one larger cola. And lots of training. I can point you in the direction of a fantastic web site about training, if you're interested.

[Gingerbeard]

Hold on... I lost the link... I swear it was a good one... something about...

[duckman]

something about root beer?

[Gingerbeard]

Ooh... maybe... nah... root beer... nah... maybe...

[SoOrbudgal]

Guys and Gals my head spins with questions on this subject. Maybe I need to study the structure of what exactly is a cola, bud sites on the cola Gingerbeard (I've never removed budsites on a cola ) . I've taken small whimpy stems cleaned out the center of side shoots and what not. Manage 6-8 true colas/stalks. But why have 20 stalks on several plants unless you got giant grow room that allows such space? I'm trying for just quality, not dealing massive amounts just home use. Am I reading too much into this?
JohnEmad I have 5 photo grows indoors. How do I know that my roots are fully grown out when I flip to flower?? I totally get veggie growing tomatoes and such. Unless a person has enormous space and or keep a separate room for old mother plants is the only way I know how a fully developed root system shows itself.
I think what we are all talking about is INDOOR and most rec. growers are space limited not all but what I've seen here is most grow indoors in tents.
Obi-Wan exactly.

Thoughts??

[Tersky]

I think cola refers to a main stem. All budsites have potential to become a cola in themselves if trained but when light is adequate the budsites grow bud instead of stem. If they are too far away they stretch and can sometimes stretch to the size of another cola, but usually just get in the way (side shoots like you said) I remove budsites at the bottom of the plant (lollipop) if i know that they wont get too much light and sometimes i let the shooters go to see if they grow tall enough to get any useful bud. Usually i turn the larfy stuff into hash but im working on not getting any larf to begin with. Still need some practice!

Oh and i can tell when the roots have filled out in my pots because i use fabric pots and they start to poke out before getting air pruned. If you use a plastic pot it would be more difficult tho..maybe check the sides or look at the bottom drain holes to see if any roots are poking out?

[JohnEmad]

Hi SoOrbudgal,
I should have said let the roots develop a bit more as I probably didn't with my 1st grow. It makes sense to me when people state the roots help determine the plant.
Ya, lots of variables in this wonderful hobby.

[Gingerbeard]

SoOrbudgal I can grow my plants to about 32" long by 11" wide. That is limiting but I can fill my space with good training.

I wouldn't trim bud sites on autos like I do on my bag seeds. I can veg as long as I want and train for bigger colas. Basically anything below, growing separate from the cola, is only a bud because it is only one.

A cola is made up of buds. The jars of curing buds are buds that have been disassembled from the cola. Bud sites grow at the base of fan leaves.

[Spidermite]

Well to date my best inside grow was this last one. I grew great genetics and only topped and super cropped them. One plant made 540grams. Total for 3 was 1176 grams. But my plants were 7 feet tall inside under 1000 watts mh/hps. I doubt most have that luxury.

[Spidermite]

Oh and by the breeders results my plants underproduced.

[kingfish]

I should be lucky enough to get 540 gram per plant. We to go Spiderman.

[Weed Pharma]

I tried many variations of cola size vs quantity vs time and have found the following to give the best in yields and bud quality.

I top all plants once at the 5-6 node and then look at the plants structure for LST-
Often I trim up the bottom one or two nodes leaving me with 8-12 main cola's.

I ripen those cola's and chop the first 9"-12" when ready - then adjust the light for a staged harvest in another week or two.

Trimming is easier and the larger cola's can be seperated to give a consitant size range for the entire harvest to cure/store properly.

My overall yields are the most when I use the above method.

[alltatup]

One thing I really wish I could do is adjust the height of my lights: not being able to is a definite drawback.

[Weed Pharma]

alltatup, Just take a nursey pot and flip it upside down- then place your plant on that, as it raises the plant about 10" -perfect height for the second stage harvest!

[alltatup]

Weed Pharma No can do: I'm hydroponic.

[Spidermite]

This I can tell you for sure. 8 to 10 main colas and they are easy to grow, make huge buds, and dont need much attention. When I let the plants do their thing the stems are much weaker and need support. I'm to the point that easier is better than yield. "Inside." The plants I yielded so much from required support for every cola. It was a pain in the ass and I will never do it again. I'd rather have 10 well supported colas at 6 ounces than 40 that you have to support everyone.

[SoOrbudgal]

I agree Spidermite i never will ever grow a plant indoors without training. You have a lucky space to grow in. It can be a pain in the ass who want's that? I just want great quality for indoor. Heck i'd be happy with 6-8 colas 3" around and 10" long buds just packed solid. I may just have to grow 2 photos in my tent to achieve that though.

[Tersky]

Hey Spidermite, have you heard of Kyle Kushman? He does a technique to strengthen the stems that he calls cannabis (or Kushman) chiropractic. He essentially creates little breaks in the stem without breaking the skin up and down the stems so that when they heal they are stronger. I personally have not had the balls to try it yet but the theory makes sense. Here is a vid timestamped to the "chiropractic" part.

[Spidermite]

I'll take a look. But does make a bit of sense. When you super crop, the area you bent the plant over gets alot bigger than the rest of the stem.

[Ell]

many grows ago i was waiting to move and did not want to transport plants in flower. i just kept topping them because max height was reached in old place. top top top top . ended up a shitload of all index finger sized tops.wieght was still good 4ounce plants. . but i didnt even trim them, sooooo many tops.just let them get extra dry and stripped the branches by pulling through tight gripped figers

[SoOrbudgal]

You know those mums in the grocery store plant/flower section. That's what it reminds me of Ell when you said that. Like a pot full of blooming rust colored mums. LOL

[Mr.furley]

Too many kola's? y'all talking crazy now.

[alltatup]

But yes, seriously Mr.furley, do you not agree with the principle that for indoor growers limited by space, it's better to grow fewer and larger buds? I mean, that seems to be the principle used by all the master growers' plants we see over on GWE.

[Mr.furley]

alltatup
It is a environmental equation that is solved by watt×sqft/Inch= Optimum yield. Every variable you throw at it I will change it, Temps, airflow, PH, nutrient, humidity , strain, phenotype , type of light, method of training, defoli Style, veg time, then sqft, watt=yield.
Every Kola you grow needs so much space, overcrowding and over cutting for your area/ environment can decrease weight in the since that the environment is maxed out and the plant is being Limited with resources and reaches a peak.
I have the upmost respect for small Box grower that can pull off a good yield, you are one of them. it is challenging and if we could pull big yields from small spaces we would all be doing it. Every grower faces a Crux in their grow environment and has to either balance it out or expand for their needs/wants, I just did and now I have to find My New Gold standard.