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    Some light spectrum and set up questions.

    I am reading thru the various articles on this website and they have been very helpful. I was looking at getting a 2nd light and then started reading a bit more about what each spectrum does and it got me wondering about something. Right now I have a single 40w Sansi full spectrum LED which looks like this.

    Blue (400-499nm) 19.46%
    Green (500-599nm) 37.70%
    Red (600-699nm) 36.23%
    Far Red (700-780nm) 6.61%

    I have a couple of different questions here. First, is this light enough or do I need another one? If I need another one is it simply a "you need more total light" issue or "you need more spectrum balance". If it's the first option then a second of the same light seems like it would work fine, right? If it's the second, then I'm not really sure what would be best to pair with it. From what I read this is a pretty solid all around light and I am not trying to do much at once. No more than 2, each in a 3 gallon pot.

    Next I'm wondering about the spectrum and how you can use it to really shape plants, if this is even possible. I'm learning here so try not to laugh if i'm off on some of this. What I understand is that blue light with cannabis encourages the plant to bush out some. Not flowering, but just become a bushier, fatter plant vs tall and lanky. If I wanted to make a plant grow fatter before it starts to bud could I just add an led with much more blue in the same room with the current one or is it not nearly this simple? If what I have is fine for veg and perhaps maybe ok for flowering, can I just add a red light (or light with more red) to the full spectrum led once flowering starts?

    I found it pretty interesting reading how the far red can affect the plant into knowing the day is about end. The spectrum article on here mentions if you give it some far red before you turn the lights off you can kick in night cycle a bit sooner. The light I have now has 6.61% far red. Is it really as simple as turning on a light with more far red % and if so how much since the one I have now is at 6.61%?

    It would be ideal if I could just add something like a 15-20w blue or red to what I have. Maybe use the main light all of the time with the blue and then sub in the red later or a red / blue swapping to a red during flower. I was also considering maybe going with a smaller HPS to pair with what I have, but not really sure if it would work well.

    My goal is not to grow the largest plants with huge yields. Everything is personal use so my goal right now is to focus on growing top quality small batches. I want to experiment with a variety of strains and get into breeding. Not worried about equipment carrying over if I want to move into growing in a larger scale. If this happens I will just buy whatever is needed.

    Is there any benefit to running multiple colors on a timer that rotates thru them? For example, 16 / 8 cycle where you have full spectrum led + hps on 16 straight, after 6 hours a blue led kicks on for 8 hours (going off for the last 2) then during the last 4 hours red kicks on and the last 2 hours the red swaps to a far red. I imagine there has to be a perfect balance that can only be achieved by having some intricate system of multiple lights going on and off and various times.

    Any links to detailed information on this or test done would be great.

    Last edited by MmmHmmml3; 04-18-2019, 07:50 AM. Reason: Growing, LED, lights, spectrum

    #2
    I think that you might be over thinking things a little bit. 40w will not be strong enough to grow a strong healthy plants. I personally use a 1000w hps for both veg and flower. Using the hps for veg does stretch your plants more so than using a mh for veg. I'd suggest at least 300w for 2 plants, more would be better. I'd use that 40w led for your seedling stage. And personally I've never played around with different spectrums before or grown with LED's for that matter. Good luck with whatever you decide

    Comment


    • MmmHmmml3
      MmmHmmml3 commented
      Editing a comment
      I have been considering getting an hps, the only issue is space. It needs to be compact and have everything within the lamp. Not sure of the max size you can get like this. I thought the one I have would be large enough for a small plant and haven't shopped around much. I wouldn't mind spending up to 100$

      Not sure how much of a difference it makes, but even if I had tons of light I would still cap the plants at around 24inches. I was planning to keep em between 12 to 18 sq inches just for right now. The idea is that if trained and trimmed properly you could still get several rows of nice buds growing.

      I have seen photos of this, but not sure if they still need a lot of light and just keep the plant small by training it and keeping in a smaller pot or if you can actually use less light since you are creating a more efficient shape of the plant.

    #3
    Originally posted by MmmHmmml3 View Post
    I am reading thru the various articles on this website and they have been very helpful. I was looking at getting a 2nd light and then started reading a bit more about what each spectrum does and it got me wondering about something. Right now I have a single 40w Sansi full spectrum LED which looks like this.

    Blue (400-499nm) 19.46%
    Green (500-599nm) 37.70%
    Red (600-699nm) 36.23%
    Far Red (700-780nm) 6.61%

    I have a couple of different questions here. First, is this light enough or do I need another one? If I need another one is it simply a "you need more total light" issue or "you need more spectrum balance". If it's the first option then a second of the same light seems like it would work fine, right? If it's the second, then I'm not really sure what would be best to pair with it. From what I read this is a pretty solid all around light and I am not trying to do much at once. No more than 2, each in a 3 gallon pot.

    Next I'm wondering about the spectrum and how you can use it to really shape plants, if this is even possible. I'm learning here so try not to laugh if i'm off on some of this. What I understand is that blue light with cannabis encourages the plant to bush out some. Not flowering, but just become a bushier, fatter plant vs tall and lanky. If I wanted to make a plant grow fatter before it starts to bud could I just add an led with much more blue in the same room with the current one or is it not nearly this simple? If what I have is fine for veg and perhaps maybe ok for flowering, can I just add a red light (or light with more red) to the full spectrum led once flowering starts?

    I found it pretty interesting reading how the far red can affect the plant into knowing the day is about end. The spectrum article on here mentions if you give it some far red before you turn the lights off you can kick in night cycle a bit sooner. The light I have now has 6.61% far red. Is it really as simple as turning on a light with more far red % and if so how much since the one I have now is at 6.61%?

    It would be ideal if I could just add something like a 15-20w blue or red to what I have. Maybe use the main light all of the time with the blue and then sub in the red later or a red / blue swapping to a red during flower. I was also considering maybe going with a smaller HPS to pair with what I have, but not really sure if it would work well.

    My goal is not to grow the largest plants with huge yields. Everything is personal use so my goal right now is to focus on growing top quality small batches. I want to experiment with a variety of strains and get into breeding. Not worried about equipment carrying over if I want to move into growing in a larger scale. If this happens I will just buy whatever is needed.

    Is there any benefit to running multiple colors on a timer that rotates thru them? For example, 16 / 8 cycle where you have full spectrum led + hps on 16 straight, after 6 hours a blue led kicks on for 8 hours (going off for the last 2) then during the last 4 hours red kicks on and the last 2 hours the red swaps to a far red. I imagine there has to be a perfect balance that can only be achieved by having some intricate system of multiple lights going on and off and various times.

    Any links to detailed information on this or test done would be great.

    You need more light, that stated if you can afford it go with LED's, there more efficient and produce less heat then glass tube lamps.

    Comment


      #4
      Largest plants with huge yields is HID my friend. Don’t let the knock off LED’s fool you into thinking they run cooler and are more efficient. For most of the LED’s on the market, this simply isn’t true. If you do find a truly efficient LED that produces, be ready to spend over $1k for that light. The cost benefit just doesn’t work out. Plus, heat sink technology on LED’s runs hotter than air cooled technology for HID. It’s more efficient at removing heat than most LEDs are capable.
      I used HID for my main rooms. I supplement with T5 cfl to enhance spectrum. I add more red during flower, then switch to UV for the last 2-3 weeks. Here are Picts below.
      I run cheap LEDs in my mother rooms to slow the plant growth down. They already produce more clones than I need, so slow is ok for me.
      Attached Files
      4x4 600w HID empty for summer
      3x3 400w HID with Bruce Banner and Skywalker Kush
      2x2 65w Quantum Board LED with 4 mother strains
      running all simultaneously for a perpetual harvests.
      https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...hash-adventure

      Comment


      • MmmHmmml3
        MmmHmmml3 commented
        Editing a comment
        Nice setup, wish I had the space for this.

      #5
      I have a meizhi LED that is rated at 1200 watts, truth is that it is about 570 watts actual. Hid is nice, till you have to replace the bulbs every two or three grows. The LEDS I have cost only 400 dollars and will last atleast ten years or more. All in all, what do YOU want to spend, how much do you want to invest.

      Comment


      • MmmHmmml3
        MmmHmmml3 commented
        Editing a comment
        I don't want to spend more than 100$ right now and I want a bulb that plugs right into a clamp. A hanging system is going to be too crowded. Just enough to do 1 or 2 plants up to 24 sq inches would be perfect

      • gbauto
        gbauto commented
        Editing a comment
        Plan on sticking with a micro grow, then. Plan using around 50 actual watts/sq ft of floor space. That will provide adequate light levels to flower. Blurple leds like the panel you have aren't even as efficient as a HID lamp so you will need to use at least the same amount6 of power(and heat) to get the same light levels. Depending on where you live, it's quite easy to build a DIY fixture with light strips that offer current tech diodes(and efficiency) for about $1/watt. Using better diodes can reduce your power needs by about 1/3 because of the difference in efficiency.

      #6
      At the risk of starting an arguing about LED vs HID on here.. I will share what I learned from my experiences. The $20 HID SE bulbs need to be replaced more often, every 2 - 3 grows sounds correct. The $60 SE bulbs usually last much longer and require less replacing. I have seen them go over 2 years (in 12-12) with no degradation, according to my light meter.
      Double ended HID bulbs are what most commercial growers are using these days. Their lifespan is much longer even for the $25 models.
      When I ran my mars hydro (claimed 50,000 hours of life) I was soldering diodes left and right, and even replaced a power drive as well. All during this time my lights were off waiting for mars to deliver the parts I needed to get up and running again. Here is the major downside... 1 diode being out on the LED still consumed the same amount of electricity as if all the diodes were working, but this lessened the physical light output due to the diode outage. So if your LED light isn’t flawless and every diode functional, out the window goes any efficiency factor. Plus, the cheap LED’s are just not as efficient as the expensive ones are.
      DrPhoton can probably explain LED efficiency on cheap vs expensive brand models much better than I am doing right now.
      Lastly, I have seen plenty of used HID ballasts being sold around my neighborhood as fully functional. Some particular models came from from the early 90’s - early 2000’s (like the magnetic types). To get 10-20 plus (or more) years of lifespan out of a HID light is not unheard of.
      4x4 600w HID empty for summer
      3x3 400w HID with Bruce Banner and Skywalker Kush
      2x2 65w Quantum Board LED with 4 mother strains
      running all simultaneously for a perpetual harvests.
      https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...hash-adventure

      Comment


      • MmmHmmml3
        MmmHmmml3 commented
        Editing a comment
        Is there a single light that can go on a clamp that you recommend? Under 100$ is fine.. only need to cover maybe 3sq ft if that

      • Toker1
        Toker1 commented
        Editing a comment
        You can go with a 250w HID. Covers a 2x2. You will need an air cooled hood and fans to remove heat. It’s a small space...
        Maybe an LED would be ok for your purposes. Still need a half decent exhaust system with it though.

      #7
      The umoles (about 90) for the light you have will only support cuttings/clones and perhaps young seedlings.
      It's all bullshit - until you smoke it!

      KISS @ Dry/Cure:
      https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...-kiss-dry-cure


      Staged Harvest:
      https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...e-in-the-wings



      Grow Journals:

      #3, Window Sill Grow - auto:
      http://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/...nic-soil-24-7g

      #4, KISS grow- Girl Scout Cookies- auto:
      https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ies-autoflower

      Comment


        #8
        Thanks for all the info, led lighting is really confusing. I see this highly recommended 600w system with sixty 10w LEDs, but it only draws 135w. A grow site mentions this light can cover about 12 sq ft. Then shouldn't one that pulls 40w cover roughly a third of this space? No clue how they actually calculate this. Then I see a 400w that draws 200 which is nowhere near the same ratio as this 600w drawing 135w.

        I think this one I have now uses 63 LEDs @ 3w each which should be roughly 1/3rd the power of this 60 led at 10w each that covers 12 feet. This also lines up with their website which says it would cover 4sq ft.

        Not that I doubt what everyone is saying, but I'm trying to understand what I am missing as to why it wouldn't cover this area. I just don't want to buy something that I think is good when it's not that strong.

        Since it seems like I need another light, let me ask you all this. What is the best option to do 1 plant between 18 and 30 sq inches. Ideally it does not hang and can easily be moved as needed. 1 or 2 bulbs on a clamp is fine. The more I think about it I probably only have room for 1 plant up to 30 inches right now.

        Price is under 100$ and most important thing is being able to have high quality small grows, not focused on maximum yield.

        This will be in a bathroom which is why moving the light is important. The first couple of plants will be autos and need to move during lights on here and there when I need to take a shower. It just happens that based on windows and doors this is the best room right now. There is an exit door and window to create airflow.

        Planning ahead for using with a larger grow is not a concern here. Eventually I will be using 1 or 2 much larger areas and at that time I will spend a nice amount and buy a top tier setup. Whatever I use now will have some sort of use later, whether it's for clones or giving to a friend.
        Last edited by MmmHmmml3; 04-18-2019, 08:53 PM.

        Comment


        • Toker1
          Toker1 commented
          Editing a comment
          You need to go by the light’s actual draw, not the par rating. Coverage for shade plants will be a different benchmark then for MJ. So many light manufacturers say you can operate at higher distances and spread the light thinner because they are not even talking about MJ. The actual drawl of the LED should be fairly close to the HID in terms of coverage zone (plus or minus). And I don’t recommend 3w chips they will not penetrate deep into the canopy. Use 5w minimum. No experience with 10w chips, so can not comment on those.

        #9
        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1388.JPG
Views:	335
Size:	1.81 MB
ID:	305711 If you want lotsa bud sites and keep her low, top em and train em. Then hit em with the strongest light you can afford. I use a sun 315 LEC I plugged it in in Dec. 2015 it runs all day every day, have never changed the bulb and still producing bombassed buds.

        Comment


        • MmmHmmml3
          MmmHmmml3 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, this is what I would like to do. I was thinking that keeping it smaller like that could allow me to use less light and that using something stronger might just make ir grow too much.

          If a powerful light is vital even with short plants then I don't mind spending double what I was planning to get a quality bulb. I want to create very short and bushy plants (under 30 inches) with the big buds that look like one giant bud going all the way up.

          What do you think is the shortest you can go while still doing this? In theory couldn't you train it to run at an angle so it never actually goes above a certain height?

        #10
        How many square feet is your grow space and how tall is it?
        Failure is an opportunity for improvement!!

        Current Grows:
        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...s-jedi-og-grow

        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...e-gorilla-grow

        Completed Grows:
        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ang-jack-herer

        https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...-northern-soul

        Comment


          #11
          Originally posted by Obi-Wan View Post
          How many square feet is your grow space and how tall is it?

          The area I would like to use is roughly 3ft x 4ft and 8ft high. I was thinking it's big enough for either 1 bushy plant or 2 tall thinner ones. I can possibly squeeze in another 2 ft x 1 ft growing area, it's odd shape that extra part. It would require me to use the entire area and make more of a diamond shape. I wouldn't mind an overhead system if it's easy to pick up and move the actual light while leaving the harness in place. It would require moving every 1 - 2 days for 20 minutes.

          I forgot about this really crappy fluorescent light I have. It's two 2ft bulbs with a stand that raises up about 2.5ft. I could easily pull it straight up off the legs and turn it into something portable or make it into a hanging system. Not really sure if this would be a good idea, I haven't looked at these type of bulbs at all. The ones inside of it are sf20t12 20w gro lux wide spectrum. I only use it when first using the germination station, but once seeds sprout up and get going a little the sansi bulb is just so much better. Maybe a good bulb can be swapped in.
          Last edited by MmmHmmml3; 04-18-2019, 11:22 PM.

          Comment


          • Graff420
            Graff420 commented
            Editing a comment
            My grow area is 3 ft by 4 ft and 5 ft tall I run my light at either 400 or 600 watts useing a hps light for flowering and Mh for veg I use nebulas manifolding guide and start flowering my girls when they are anywhere between 10 inch's and 20 inch's depending on what I'm growing I know my light should make huge 11 inch colas if I can keep her shadow off her bud spots but thats why I flower at 10 to 20 inch's that way my plants never break more than 40 inch's Max but normally I end up with about a good 18 inch tall girl and some thick colas leading down never tried led before tho just letting you know a 600 watt may grow a plant faster but you can always train her and bring her down

          #12
          3x4x8 is plenty of space to do what you want to do. I run a 400w HID in in 3x3 with great results so if you keep your canopy to 3x3 I would recommend a 400w HID. You can definitely run a 600w in your space. You have plenty of height to run LEDs in your space but as others have mentioned the HIDs are a better choice for your money, although I have friend that runs auto-cobs from CobShop.net and his yields are about 25% less than mine with similar quality for 60% of the wattage from the wall.
          Failure is an opportunity for improvement!!

          Current Grows:
          https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...s-jedi-og-grow

          https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...e-gorilla-grow

          Completed Grows:
          https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ang-jack-herer

          https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...-northern-soul

          Comment


            #13
            Originally posted by Obi-Wan View Post
            3x4x8 is plenty of space to do what you want to do. I run a 400w HID in in 3x3 with great results so if you keep your canopy to 3x3 I would recommend a 400w HID. You can definitely run a 600w in your space. You have plenty of height to run LEDs in your space but as others have mentioned the HIDs are a better choice for your money, although I have friend that runs auto-cobs from CobShop.net and his yields are about 25% less than mine with similar quality for 60% of the wattage from the wall.

            That auto cob is amazing, exactly what I was looking for. Ended up getting the Optic 1 3500k with optional 120 degree lens. Happened to see a short clip of the Optic 1XL, then I saw this post and started looking into them further at cobshop. The Optic has such a great warranty and I couldn't find a bad thing mentioned anywhere online so I went with it. Paid 153$ for everything and free shipping. Very excited to have found this, low watts and won't raise the electricity much while I experiment and get use to growing. One Optic can get around 3.5-4oz and Optic 2XL on the same plant can make this absolutely insane bush with up to 14oz. It seems like whatever I do in the future this will still have a purpose. Even adding other efficient lights like this wouldn't be a bad option. I think the next lighting I get will be some sort of DIY led.
            Last edited by MmmHmmml3; 04-19-2019, 04:22 AM.

            Comment


              #14
              I believe it's all preference based on budget and getting the max out of your lighting purchase. I use 2 Vivosun 300 w $59 each led lights used as factory recommends for my grow needs and electric budget works just fantastic. Good Growing !!

              Comment


                #15
                Toker1 , Not an argument, just a different perspective, money can be an issue. I only use LEDs, I have had minor problems at one time, nothing a soldering iron can not handle. Bulb replacement, if you actually need to replace an LED, is just soldering. Of course my LEDS were expensive, not Mars, Meizhi, I would prefer Blackdog, just way to expensive. I will admit that HID is much cheaper, and the technology is getting better. I am an enthusiast when it comes to LEDs, I am planning to build one at 600 watts. Just letting people know there are options out there and that investment is cheap or expensive.

                Comment


                • MmmHmmml3
                  MmmHmmml3 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Any experience with the cree cob led? The grow videos I have seen with these are crazy for the small size of the light and how much power it uses. I almost bought one of the systems that use smaller cob lights mixed with regular led, but from everything I found the optic products seem top quality. Everything else in the 150$ price range had some sort of mixed reviews.

                  Let us know how the build goes on the 600w. While looking into what other light to get I ran across a few DIY websites and it looks like you can save a bit this way. Not sure how tough it will be, but starting small can't be too hard. It doesn't seem all that different from building guitar effects pedals.

                • Ace1973
                  Ace1973 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  The only experience I have had is with Meizhi 1200 watt led. I have used the same lamp for four years and I have seen no decrease in intensity or in bud production. Although that is the limit of my experience, I have grown two plants that leaned more toward the broadleaf side and grossed a pound dry. This was done in a 4x4x7 tent. LEDs today are way more advanced than they were 10 years ago, the investment is long term and well worth it after initial cost, I have seen the cree cobs, watched a guy grow one plant under it and had amazing results. As far as yield and quality, an LED is comparable, before everyone takes me for a hater, HID hands down has better light penetration, and can net massive yields. All in all, every plant I have grown would compare to my buddies HID, yield maybe smaller, just not that small, otherwise quality is consistent. My build will be a 600 watt cob driverless, well built in drivers anyways. Not for another year.

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