Bud burn

[Crowdad]

Hi everybody, I've recently experienced an unusual issue with my buds just before harvest. The tops of some of the buds are turning brown and dying along with some of the sugar leaves. When I describe the symptoms on the website's diagnostic page I get Bud Rot. The only thing is, when I break open the buds there is no grey slime or musty smell at all. The buds seem to be dying from the outside in, which doesn't co-relate with any description of bud rot I can find. The humidity did get away on me at night some times and it did get as high as 70% especially after watering, but the strain is Hawaiian so its supposed to be mold resistant. I didn't cut it down and separate it from the rest of the plant because I saw no evidence of spores. I doubt it's bud rot but if it isn't, what could it be? Has any one else seen this? Can I still use it somehow? I thought about using it for a tincture to be on the safe side.

[golfnrl]

Can you put up some pics?

[Crowdad]

Sorry, I only have pics of the dried stuff. Took some before and after breaking it open. You can see the inside is less afflicted than the outside. Not. mushy at all. Very crispy.

[golfnrl]

Just curious, how close was the bud/plant to your light? The 2nd pic looks like bleaching to me. I've experienced it, but most of the affected area of my plant was bud closest to the light.

[Crowdad]

Yes, I thought it could be light burn. I have an HLG 300w 16 to 18 inches from the top most buds. Lower buds were affected but less so than those higher up.

[golfnrl]

I have an HLG 350 R. I really like it but it doesn't need to be past five on the dimmer dial. I bleached some plants before I figured that out. HLG says 18" above the canopy for flower. I've played around with that a bit and there's some wiggle room, about where you have your lamp. But more than that it's iffy.

[DabberDog]

Ditto your 18" with my HLG 360 Elite. Any closer and there better be fans, and supercrop considerations.
But I've never used the dimmer. I know some y'all's get down with the dimmer, but I have never been convinced I need more than an 'On' and 'Off' setting.

[Rootsruler]

I recommend you download a free light meter app so that you can measure the amount of light energy you are providing your plants. I like to use DLI(Daily Light Integral) to measure the amount of light so I can ramp the light up and down at the appropriate stages.

In the meantime you can use this to approximate your light height.

[Dgrobro]

If you want to determine appropriate distance for your light, I discovered an available freebie light meter app called “Photone” You will need to send $29 to get a diffuser from the mfr but I use it with my iPhone 12 to get accurate DLI and PPFD. I compared the readings from this setup to a $200 light meter and they were spot-on. Using the meter allows me to dial in the power on my LEDs.

[Allenpro]

I have been using that app for a few years and I recently bought thier difuseer, With the paper difuser I get accurate PPFD readings and with thier difuser I get PPFD's at like 30. I am sure its something I am doing but their customer support hasnt responded yet. I am endorsing the photone app but their difusser not so much

[Smallgrow]

Interesting, I used the paper for a few grows and the last grow I got the diffuser. It seemed to work for me, although I don’t have anything to compare too. Your readings are so far off you know something is amiss. The app should recognize your IPhone needs a diffuser and prompt you to select which one. I assume you’ve got that selected properly ? Hopefully they get back to you, I’ve been very happy with the app , it would be nice to know they have decent customer service too.

[Rootsruler]

To add, if you have an android phone Tent Buddy app works well

[Bluey]

Hard to tell from the pics but at 70% RH I would suspect mold. There are many types of mold and not all start on the inside of the bud.

Are the buds breaking off from the stem if you pull them or open them up? Dont be gentle. If so definitely mold.

I've had black mold start eating away from the outside. I cut it out and smoked what didn't look effected. It was horrid to smoke.

[DabberDog]

Me too. I know there is more than one type of mold, but I have never gotten more than a case of WPM so don't know what to call what.
When I look at that second picture, all I can think of is rotting wet biomass. I would say a mold without saying what sort. Definitely isn't the bud rot popularized in the forum.

[DabberDog]

The buds look funny. What does the inside of the stems look like?

[Crowdad]

The stems appear normal as far as I can tell. When the plants were alive before I cut them down the buds would open up without breaking off and the inside was a nice green. The 70% was only in the evening when the lights went out. For some reason the RH shot up when the tent was dark but only then. When the lights were on it was more like 40% and below. I'm curious, is it possible it's the beginning of bud rot which didn't get a foothold because the humidity wasn't high enough for long enough. I thought if it was rot it would keep rotting during the drying process. Is there such a thing as a touch of bud rot? Was it in the early stages and arrested when I cut the plants down?

[DabberDog]

The bud rot we're all referring to is called Botrytis. Do a google and see what we're talking about.

[Bluey]

The heat generated by the lights increasing air temps lowers relative humidity. RH is relative. The warmer the air the more moisture it can hold so if moisture in the air remains constant and temps rise the RH goes down.

Yes. It could be the start of bud rot. You don't need much time at 70% RH for it to get started. RH in the buds will be higher. Did you have strong airflow?

[Crowdad]

Yes, I did have a 4" vent fan and a circular fan 12" or so at the highest speed. All three vent flaps were open.
I've read a lot about Botrytis Cinerea lately trying to rule it out. What I'm seeing only checks one of the boxes commonly used to identify it - brown, dying buds. There's no musty smell, no mushy core, no powder or tiny spores floating around when you shake it. No white hairs. Plus it's a fungus resistant Hawaiian strain which was subjected to only a small, part time shift in RH. I'm still not ready to give up on an alternative. Looks like light burn is the only other possibility.

[Drphil69]

12" fan on high, could it be too much?

[DabberDog]

Sequester the questionable buds and see what happens. Maybe do one in a jar and leave one at a buddy's house. For sure keep it away from all your other fine dope.
About your Hawaiian strain being fungus resistant. If you are growing a Hawaiian landrace you got in and are growing in Hawaii, yeah, you probably have some resilience. Otherwise, your seeds have been bred any number of times in conditions other than Hawaiian and are not as resilient. Just saying.

[Crowdad]

I thought about trying that. If nothing happens after a week or so is it not bud rot?

[DabberDog]

Mmm... I would heavily assume if nothing happens, it is not rot. I'm also heavily assuming if you put a rotting bud in a jar, the jar will get condensation which would be a good indication of something growing and breathing inside. It might even speed up the rot.
But, like Bluey said in the next post, it looks suspicious like rot. Just not the rot we usually see.

[Bluey]

You'll know when you smoke it..it will be vile.

Light burn should cauliflower the top of the bud or cause unusual growth, fox tailing or odd shape...dunno. the color of the sugars and pistols look like a symptom of rot to me