root aphids 101

[desertdan]

Root aphids 101. This plant has root aphids in mid flower. This plant showed signs of infestation about a month ago. I treated it best I could. Almost killed it with treatment. Thought they were gone but they always come back,I was in denial. Now it is a race between buds and bugs. I gave it a couple last resort treatments this morning. I put hydrogen peroxide on them and followed with soap suds. I don't think I will follow up with the bio insecticide because it is very expensive and probably too late to make a difference.If I put Azera on it again it will kill the plant. Most anything strong enough to kill the bugs at this point will kill the plant. I thought I had them beat this year but had only a small victory. Out of 20 plants 4 have no aphids. I will take that small victory. Next year when it is legal I will not have them because we will be legal and no more hiding under trees. Root aphids only fly once a year. The rest of the year they crawl and drop out of the trees into the plants. If anyone has questions about root aphids I can probably answer. I have become somewhat of an expert on root aphids. I talked to a PHD. in entomology at U. Arizona for an hour the other day. She said I knew as much or more about root aphids as she did.

[Korn]

I googled it and found some info. Honestly i have never heard about this problem until now, thankfully. The company was trying to sell a treatment called Botaniguard. Not sure if it works or not but i credit them with explaining a little about this pest. My take as with most pests is to try for prevention so a cure is less likely to be needed. For what my two cents are worth, I start with new growing media each grow, recycle used soil far from my weed growing area, and sterilize all tents and equipment between grows. I wonder if you completely submersed the entire root ball in a tub of water for a couple if hours to drown them then pulled it out to drain without watering until it dried out enough if that would at least slow them down a bit or hopefully knock them out. At least it could help with flushing out some nutes for the final stages before harvest. Best of luck my friend.

[desertdan]

Very difficult to move around 15 and 30 gallon pots. To soak long enough to kill bugs will also kill plant. This is problem with most treatments, enough to kill bugs also kills plants.

[desertdan]

Botanigaurd is only good as a preventative or very few bugs present and so expensive not worth it. The first year I researched only people that I found to help were salesman. ouch!!!

[desertdan]

I don't know the scientific name other than F#**!@*^%$ and m**#@!!&(^%$rs. I grow outdoors only. I have come to find out that the root aphids that infest my plants are endemic to this area. Their host main host plant is called brittle bush. This is a special desert root aphid , of course. Closely related to rice root aphid and hemp root aphid. The all do the same thing. Suck on the roots and spread diseases. It is usually not the aphids that kill the plant but the bacteria and diseases that infect the damaged roots. These aphids secrete a fluid as they suck on the root. This fluid keeps the roots from healing and they are then susceptible to disease and bacteria and mold.
Signs you have root aphids. 1. yellow tiger stripe leaves. 2. plant looks like needs water but does not 3. will lose all smell. 4. bugs crawling in or on soil or sides of pot at this point sorry too late, game over.
Now this took me several years to figure out. My bugs fly off the brittle bush flowers in the spring looking for a summer home. They fly to anything green and are atracted to soils with high N content. They fly into the trees and turn to what is called first instar. They then drop out of the trees all summer and into the soil where they turn to the soil dwelling pest that I fight. They also can crawl in drain water from container to container or plant to plant in rain water on ground.
Next year I will plant after they are done flying and I will put containers on steel tables with tangle foot on legs of tables. Nothing will get near any trees. When legal comes (in 2 months I pray) I will probably cut some trees down so I can stay completely away. For years I have been using the trees for shade and concealment and bugs have been dropping into everything. I will build a shade structure and work from there.
How to kill root aphids. You can't kill them all. If completely infested nothing can be done.
Root aphids do not require 2 to make more aphids. One aphid can reproduce on it's own. One can become 100,000 in a matter of weeks and a million in a couple days more. This is one reason they are so hard to kill. They can reproduce themselves so fast that while biocide or other stuff is killing them they are reproducing more. If they are poisoned and don't die on contact they reproduce resistant young.
If you suspect root aphids and are not infested yet this is what I found will work First apply hydrogen peroxide to soil. This gets them lose from the roots and gets em moving around. Also kills root diseases. Then apply a product called Azera this is azadacterin and pyretheron very, very strong stuff be very careful too much will kill the plant. If the bugs have done a lot of damage to roots then the Azera will damage plant more or kill it. No damage from bugs then little affect on plant with Azera. Then follow up with bio insecticide PFR-97. There are several of these available but this one seems to actually work although I am still not sure. Couple more weeks and I will know for sure.The Azera and the bio insecticides are very, very expensive. I spent about $3,000 last season and was only able to kill some plants. Huge learning curve with these bugs. Best thing is to not get them in the first place. I will plant in June and stay away from the trees next year and I should be successful. I have no other bug problem in this desert except grasshopper every 7 years or so.
From what I have learned most growers get root aphid in soil they bring in. This was my first thought. This year I finally spotted flyers and traced them to brittle bush. If you don't have the brittle bush or similar host (in the sunflower family) in your area. Root aphids are most likely being brought in on soil or amendments. I hear they are worst in soils from west coast.
I hope this helps someone. I am sure there is a lot more to write about that I forgot. Time to burn one and will post more later.

[Korn]

Thanks these details and for sharing. Maybe our collective efforts can figure out a solution. I applaud you on the research you have done! You are serious about this, as you should be. I guess going indoors is not an option for you? If so, myself being lazy and more likely to throw in the towel, i can say from experience that a couple of 2x4 tents set up with some decent lights (less than $3000) can yield you 50 ounces of killer buds of 10-12 varieties in one year. Would that be enough?

[Cali]

Just so you know. On YouTube there is a grower by the name of Kaligrownbudz he just got rid of an infestation outdoors and he recommends a product. Maybe check it out? Also overwatering seems to be the culprit for getting those. Cayenne pepper not sure if I spelled it correctly but that helps a lot. If you weren’t in flower I would say use neem cake and sprinkle on the base of your plant that should be fine even now in flower but I wouldn’t spray it on the buds. Not sure but praying mantis and green lacewings are good predators..

[desertdan]

I have been at this four three years all over utube most on u tube is bull or flat out crazy. some is helpful but most don't have a clue. Unless green lacewings and mantis have become soil boreres they don't work on root aphids. They eat cayenne for breakfast and poop it at lunch. neem makes them laugh.

[desertdan]

I looked at u tube video the guy is talking about leaf aphids only. Probably does not know what root aphid is.

[Rwise]

Ladybugs may help, but only while they are above ground. Maybe 1 more bullet in the gun.

[desertdan]

I have ladybugs ,praying mantis lace wings, wasps and many more.

[Rwise]

Yes but, when the beasties are out is when you need a lot of the ladybugs, so they can feast and then die off from lack of food. Like at least 1500.

[desertdan]

I am surrounded by square miles of the plants that are their host. I would need millions and I am sure they are out there just overwhelmed.

[buds73]

https://www.planetnatural.com/pest-problem-solver/houseplant-pests/root-aphid-control/

There's some more information.

[desertdan]

Interesting mite, never heard of it. Rove beetle do not work as soil temps too high. I will need to check and find out about mite effectiveness in high soil temps above 75 degrees. Nematodes don't work either because of high soil temps.

[Rwise]

I read that Nematodes dont work at all, just a sales thing,,, ok what it said was we should stop telling others to use them because there is no proof they do anything for our plants.

[desertdan]

I remember now. I researched the mites last year. The soil temps are too high here at the time I need them.

[MeEasy]

I have another maybe for you to check out. About 25 years ago I had a damn spider in my trees and I can't for the life of me remember what they were called but my story really doesn't matter just where I found the answer. Being in a rural area the local university has a large agriculture department that does tons of different studies in our area. I cut a branch off my tree put it in a bag and took it to them and they solved the problem with a gallon of stuff I couldn't even start to tell you what it was. Of course I didn't just show up with the bag of spiders I called ahead in your case you know what the problem is not just a mystery spider so it might just take a phone call.

[Korn]

In states where its legal you may get help. In states where its not forget about it. Unless you tell them your growing peppers or something else. Dont mention its cannabis.

[desertdan]

I spent an hour on the phone last week with PHD from university here. She said I knew more about them than she did.

[Rwise]

Do you also have ants? If so they need to be dealt with as well.

[desertdan]

I kill ants year around.

[Rwise]

Me too! And i have several types. They are also known to move aphids around or even to another plant. Also a sign of these beasties!

[Gingerbeard]

Hey, uh... what about diatomaceous earth? You know I'm a DE guy.

[desertdan]

Tried planting in 60% sand 20% DE and 20% heat treated compost. They loved it.

[Rwise]

I myself find DE uneffective. As soon as its wet it does nothing.

[Korn]

I agree with Rwise. The only time it has worked fir me is if I use it to dust soft bodied insects and it must be dry. It is composed of the skeletons of diatoms which have sharp protrusions that can puncture critters like aphids and caterpillars and such. Once wet it cakes up and compacts and is much less effective.

[Gingerbeard]

Then I'm out. I am fortunate to have not had anything a little DE can't cure.

Your handle implies you are a dude in the desert named Dan desertdan. Lot's of types of deserts but I'll assume you live in one with lot's of rocks and more sand or DG than dirt? American like. Not big sand dunes with oil underneath. Or something like that. San Diego and our Cleveland National Forest are deserts. The Arctic is even a desert.

Enough trivia. If the dirt aphids you have can live through 80% of what is essentially glass to soil bugs, and you live in a stereotypical American desert, could the aphids you have be something more resilient to little glass bits? Something that lives in your local, natural dirt?

Maybe your bugs are snorting DE and smoking sand? And what about using food grade? It dabs to mind... can bugs eat food grade DE? I mean, it's food grade, right? Are you using food grade sand, too? Somethings to consider.

[desertdan]

Sonoran desert here. I used to grow in the ground and they were not as bad, I think they have some natural enemies or other barriers that keep them a little in check.

[Gingerbeard]

Dry desert plant's aren't as susceptible as wet weed?
What about using Sonora soil in your planter mix? Something from around established trees or shrubs?
How about using spent, outdoor soil with the 20% heat treated compost you use? DG from an amended, xeriscaped garden?

[Korn]

I’m wondering if a rapid pH change to kill the root aphids followed by flushing to bring the pH back up quickly might be effective. Brainstorming here.

[Gingerbeard]

Rapid pH change is real no muy bueno.

https://www.growweedeasy.com/cannabis-plant-problems/ph-fluctuations

[Korn]

My testable hypothesis is that since the soils in the Sonoran Desert have pH that range from 7.0 to 8.0, neutral to alkaline pH, maybe the root aphids are adapted to higher pH, less acidic conditions. It could easily be tested without risking the plant by collecting some visibly infested soil in a clear cup, adding some pH adjusted water, say pH 5.5-6.0, letting it work for say one hour, then assess if the bugs were killed. If so, then it could be tested on a plant. After treatment for one hour, the container could be flushed with 7.0 water to remove the extra acid to achieve the desired final pH. Couldnt be any more traumatic than the methods tried by desertdan, much cheaper, and the downside is some browning on some leaves, not good but not necessarily lethal to the plant, According to the GWE tutorial concerning rapid pH fluctuations. If the problem is to be solved sometimes measures that could temporarily set the plant back should be considered. Pardon my scientific approach. Good luck! These root aphids are not a problem here in our sandy acidic soils. We deal with root knot nematodes here and they do the same root damage as the aphids. To combat them we use limestone or dolomite to raise the soil pH to around 6.5-6.8. Not sure if it kills the nematodes or causes them to flee the treated area but it does allow a crop to be harvested. Due to the tremendous buffering capacity of the acid sand soils, the limestone must be added every year before planting.

[AccidentalGardener]

I don't even know what these things look like and I'm going to have nightmares about them. Earlier in the thread, you said the host plant is related to sunflowers. Do these monsters hangout near sunflowers? Or just the brittle bush?
Asking for a friend...she will chop those sweet-faced sun-goddesses down tonight in the dark and buy birdseed tomorrow, lol.

[MeEasy]

Tiptopbio.com obviously you are going to have a never ending fight if the little bastards surround you but it's my understanding with multiple release of these nematodes you can control the infestation of root aphids. It might be to late for this crop because you are already infested you'll have to take what you get, but if you start next season on the offense you should have a better outcome. Maybe you can try Korn trick with the ph before you plant next year to clean out an area then the nematodes as soon as you plant your crop. This would be my plan of attack.
good luck

[Rwise]

Down the preventative road, what about this type stuff

https://www.amazon.com/Tanglefoot-300000684-Tree-15-Tub/dp/B000BWY3AA

There are many, I posted just 1 for the idea, my thought is to put this on the trunk so they cant climb up into the plants. Maybe 1 more thing to help break the life cycle.

[MeEasy]

I've used that tanglefoot on my fruit trees but never considered it on MJ plant but I'm sure it's another brick in the wall. A little dusting of DE powder is enough for indoors I would think but outside I would try it. Good idea for sure

[Gingerbeard]

How about trying a test pot before pHing your plants?

[desertdan]

Just like most other cures sufficient change to kill bugs would kill plants.