660nm flower initiator (dawn/dusk simulation)

[Mrblu]

Thinking of running an experiment - dawn and dusk simulation. Using a 660nm led only, turning on 15 minutes before main lighting then running an additional 5 minutes with main lighting. Then 5 min before lights out and 15 min after. Still keeping a total of 12/12. I can't seem to find any direct answer if I'm on the right path. From what I can find and my thoughts are that it helps the plant wake up and go to sleep being able to better spend energy on bud production. Can any one give any input or even just your thoughts. In terms of replicating nature it seems to make sense not sure if im entirely correct on my procedure. Thank you.

[Greenlivin]

Sounds like an interesting experiment. Your idea makes sense...wonder how it will affect the plant.

[Toker1]

This is called the Emerson effect. It allows for an extra hour, or so, of lights on with out messing up the circadian rhythm. Extra light = more yield. I have yet to try... but know about this subject.
http://www.life.illinois.edu/govindj.../Chapter13.pdf

[DrPhoton]

Actually the emerson enhancement effect has nothing to do with phytochrome manipulation such as when using far red to alter light cycle potentials. Its manufacturers who badly associated far red with the emerson effect because they wanted to sell a product.

[Toker1]

Thanks for that @DrPhoton!! Always appreciate your input. Hope all has been well recently.

[DrPhoton]

Yea very good bud. Working over at another site these days. Only come over here for those who quote me. Appreciate your ambition to spread the right information.

[Mrblu]

Before i jump in. Can any one advise me - i have an all red 660nm led bulb. Based on my research dawn /dusk is approximately 30min. Should i add 30 min before and after of only red for a technical total of 13hr of light 11hr darkness or still do 30min but the main lights running for 11hr keeping the total at 12/12. Will it still flower? Will I get seed ?

[Toker1]

I only have a limited amount of information on this subject. Maybe DrPhoton will be kind enough to chime in here.
From my understanding the lack of far red light right before darkness keeps the plants “awake” for some time, even after lights off. So you need 12 hours of darkness to keep from seeding or re-vegging.
If you shine the far red for 30 min all by itself (simulating a more natural sunset spectrum) the plant is able to go to “sleep” right away. So you can do 13 hours of lights on and 11 hours of lights off with out causing those issues. The far red should be the only light source during the first 30 min of the 11 hours of lights off.

[Mrblu]

That's what my research is looking like. The red shouldn't affect it seed wise because yes it is helping the plant wake up and sleep. But yes seeds or re veg would like to be avoided

[Toker1]

Exactly. I hope drphonon is still around to chime in on this. He taught me everything I currently know about the Emerson effect.

[Mrblu]

I think I'm in the right path . I feel good about i . My last real concern i , is 660nm correct for what I am attempting? Yes i really hope someone can give a not to technical answer as to if im doing this correctly before i punch the clock on this one .

[Toker1]

Great question!! I found this link. Should be helpful. According to dr photon it’s 680nm - 700nm that you want.

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/312065-emmerson-effect

[Mrblu]

Toker1 thank you!!!!! that last link was exactly what i was looking for. A little technical for me but yeah i think i got the gist. So my 660nm would most likely not achieve the result im looking for. The juice is probably not worth the squeeze. However the uv t5 i saw in your set up. Is another venture im looking into, my efforts would yield better results going that route im thinking

[Toker1]

Right on! Yeah, I ended up ditching the red (660nm) t5 bulbs after that conversation you just read. I do still supplement my HPS with UV light though and the results have been great! Major increase in THC on the final product and more frost on my nugs. I do 15 min on and 2 hours off through out the lights on cycle. the T5 UV bulbs I bought were made by Agro max.