Diagnostic and treatment help needed please.

[Jordann]

This hurts us all and we're all feeling for you. A total shame. Only thing to do is start over and after cleaning and disinfecting hope it's taken care of. Total loss total shame.

[BR2K]

Serapium Do you have any communication channels with other local growers? I'd ask around, to see if anyone else has been affected. Please let us know if that's the case. My sincere condolences on the loss of your crop.

[Korn]

Yep. Sorry to hear about the loss of your crop too. I would still want to know what happened, as I’m sure you do. It may be a new thing that can affect the whole industry. It’s important to log/document what happed, when it happened, who it happened to, who escaped the problem, etc. all info would be helpful in trying to diagnose the problem correctly. One flag for me was the fact that it occurred in only one green house. A good thing yet a puzzling thing if you all share the same water, air, ventilation, rooting medium, etc. What are the attitudes of your fellow competitors? Are you comparing notes and sharing information? What does your gut tell you? You seem to be an astute and conscientious individual. At this point, I would entertain all possibilities with an open mind. Cautious, but not paranoid. I believe there is some hanky panky going on. Something just doesn’t feel right. Look for the outliers in the data. Sometimes the outliers reveal another way of looking at things, sometimes they lead to the truth. Good luck my friend. Keep us in the loop, OK? Many minds coming at a problem from different perspectives can achieve positive results. Korn

[Daskahn]

Going off that.. and idk why this popped in my head.. but a fellow member said he had a gorilla grow and the feds sprayed the area he was growing in with something that killed only his plants.. is it possible you were a victim of a state or government attack? Or attack from a competitor someone sprayed your air system with a “weed” killer

[Korn]

An afterthought. I hope you saved some material for diagnostic purposes. I know the concern about destroying the possible pathogen, but it’s important that your affected plants be examined in a diagnostic lab. I’m sure there is a lab in the US that can and will do it. If not, that would be a great business to start. I’m thinking if you submit some material to a private lab and ask for testing for whatever parameters, I believe they will test it. If you are worried tell them it is spinach or roselle so they’ll have plausible deniability. Where there’s a will there’s a way. By pursuing this not only will you benefit but also the industry. Thanks!

[Serapium]

To everyone following along, I thank you for the kind words. You've made some wonderful observations and asked some great questions, and I will address them tomorrow after I've had a chance to digest this week's events.

I did save a few samples for later diagnosis, so hopefully I'll be able to eventually provide an answer.

For now I'm going to heavily medicate and try to forget things for a few hours.

Tomorrow starts full decontamination and sterilization.

[SoOrbudgal]

Our prayers are with you in you time of loss man that's a huge hit. I feel for you.

[Toker1]

Dang man. Sorry to come into this discussion so late. Also sorry to read about your loss.
Well, they look overwatered (judging from the original pictures first post). The clawing with leaves pointing downward is usually a tell tale sign.
were they going through a wet-dry cycle?

[Rwise]

For the ag center tell them its hemp, they are fed backed (they still may not do it). I too hate to here this, very sad, a ton of work and all loss.

[Serapium]

Ooooh good idea. I'll do that with a sample.

[tropa]

Hello Serapium did you already consider fungus gnats

[Rwise]

I have gnats also, and no damage like that from them, I will buy predator bugs to combat them this year. I use spinosad indoor.

[Serapium]

Yeah, definitely not a pest infestation of any kind. The infection vector is viral. It's entirely possible that the initial infection came from a single small pest that did not replicate within the system but allowed for viral transmission once the plant was infected.

[Jordann]

What a damn shame though. Hurts us all.

[Serapium]

Quick update to those following along.

After clearing the facility earlier this week of all plant material we underwent a thorough decontamination and sterilization regimen, including the following:

1) Eradication of all plant material.

2) Full cleaning of the entire 10,000 square feet. This was not a minor undertaking. Several people for 6 days including the following:

3) First we went nuclear and bug bombed the entire facility (no plants present.) While this situation was not related to a pest infestation, we took this opportunity of no plants being present to do a full decontamination.

4) Following that all walls and ceilings were washed, all floors swept and mopped. With 6 large rooms in a 10K sq ft facility... Washing all walls, ceilings, and floors is not something I'd wish on my worst enemy. That sucked nasty donkey wang.

5) Next came full spraying of the entire facility with an airborne dessicant via an electric fogger (used green cure.)

6) Next came disassembly and sterilization with a bleach solution of all drain tables, irrigation lines, and reservoirs. That was more than a little time consuming.

7) All pots, humidity domes, tools, and trays were washed in a bleach solution.

8) Changing of all air filters.

9) Decontamination of entire facility via multiple high level doses of ozone via an ozone generator.

10) Reassembly of all systems, followed by a thorough purge with RO to remove any traces of chloramines and other contaminants from the sterilization process.

11) Repopulation of the veg room with ten small clones sourced from a known healthy facility. All ten plants inspected in minute detail prior to being imported to the facility, and all ten treated with Green Cure and a mild neem solution prior to importation. I am typically against the use of neem based products, but in this case I relented and used a mild foliar application.

That's where we sit currently, and all ten new plants have now been in the facility for two days. All ten continue to look healthy and vibrant, and are growing rapidly (see attached pic.) Provided no signs of contamination are present by the end of the week, we will repopulate.

Given the magnitude of the undertaking this week I haven't had an opportunity to further diagnose the underlying condition. I do have some plant material stored under strict quarantine for future analysis if such becomes possible.

The overall dollar impact is staggering. Lost plants, lost labor expenses and time, lost materials (cloth pots and growing media), hundreds of dollars in just cleaning supplies... and more importantly the lost time to harvest. All in all it's a six figure impact.

I don't ever want to experience anything like this again.

In the future, I will be much more gun shy when I identify plants with strange growth characteristics. Immediate removal of anything suspect upon the slightest indication of abnormality will now be the norm.

This whole experience has been humbling. I'm certainly not the cannabis expert of the world, but I'm more knowledgeable than most. I'm usually the guy that people come to for help when they have issues. It's been a long time since I reached out for help from anyone with a problem of my own. I suppose the fact that none of the many experts I contacted were able to offer efficacious solutions I hadn't tried is at least somewhat vindicating and blunts the blow a little.

In retrospect, if I had acted just a few days sooner in eradication suspect plants I likely could have saved a significant portion of the loss. It's kind of eerie going through this process of viral eradication at the same time that most of the world is on lockdown due to viral contamination among the human populace.

I sure hope similar measures to what I've had to do here are not required where covid-19 is concerned!

[Rwise]

All thats more work than I can handle these days! Huge loss for sure, and at a bad time for all. Hang in there it'll get better!

[Serapium]

Rwise thanks. All we can do is move forward

[SoOrbudgal]

Beautiful clones we're rooting for a positive grow this round Serapium your moving forward and it's good to see. Best of Luck

[BR2K]

HOLY COW - I have NO doubt that experience "sucked nasty donkey wang"!!! The only thng you didn't do was improve your security, as far as we know. A simple sensor, to log when the door(s) open could give you additional peace of mind...or a starting point to track down malicious intent.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me

Good luck and let us know how everything turns out

[Serapium]

BR2K we have those security measures in place already. Good idea though for anyone who doesn't already have this capability in a facility of this type.

[Serapium]

Ok. I'm at my wit's end here.

Since my last post, those initial ten clones we imported post-facility-sterilization were monitored for a week. They seemed to be staying perfectly healthy, and exhibited vigorous healthy growth.

We then repopulated with 450 new clones from the same source as the original ten. Those have been growing vigorously and with robust health for several weeks now.

Last night when I left the facility, every single plant was 100% healthy and vibrant.

This morning I came in to a recurrence of the same symptoms, which manifested literally overnight. This showed up in about 100 of the plants out of the blue.

Just shoot me now.

[tropa]

The media is coco?

[Serapium]

tropa the water line comes into the building underground. I don't see how anyone could sabotage that.

Otherwise, nobody is ever in the building that I don't trust 100%. Everyone working here has a personal financial stake in success.

Yes, media is coco. Ph controllers have been checked and rechecked against both drops and strips. Also, it's only affected about 1/3 of the plants, and all were fed the same nutrients and water. If it was something in the feed mix I'd think it would affect all plants simultaneously.

[tropa]

Is your coco from the same manufacturer and as expiration date, is it pre buffered or you guys do it anyways, any chance of mesure run off EC from damage plants and healthy ones

[BR2K]

I am at a loss. Do any of your competitors have a voodoo witch doctor, placing an evil hex upon you?

I literally can think of nothing other than an "inside job". Maybe a janitor dumping his mop bucket in your grow? I am truly sorry for your troubles and wish I had more experience/knowledge to share. ...I do have one, last suggestion. Would it be possible to take (from a new batch of clones) one or two home? Grow them in the same conditions as the one at work? I know it seems like a step backward but it would be a control group.

[Serapium]

BR2K yes, all parameters are monitored rather meticulously - especially since our first experience with this.

[BR2K]

"yes, all parameters are monitored rather meticulously - especially since our first experience with this."

Have you compared the measurements with your "control group"?

Also, how many grows have you successfully completed in this cursed facility?

[Serapium]

BR2K zero grows completed in this facility. It's brand new, though this is the second set of plants we've attempted to import to this site.

[Korn]

Any ideas about what your grow building was used for before you acquired it? Or did you have it built for your operation? Maybe there are some residual chemicals or contaminants affecting your plants. Maybe you could submit a plant for testing and say it’s hemp.

[Serapium]

Been thinking along these lines myself. It was a machine shop for many years. It's a metal building, and when we renovated as a grow facility it was stripped to the shell. Only remaining original material is the foundation, metal beams and sheeting, and the insulation on the ceiling. The insulation is the only porous material. Like most insulated ceilings in metal buildings it is fiberglass with a plastic sheet backing.

I can't think of anything that would have been present in a machine shop that could permeate the insulation and persist in high enough concentrations over time to be a factor. To the best of my knowledge the insulation is dry throughout the facility - we have no roof leaks of any kind.

[Rwise]

There is a place near me that uses trichloreathane to remove grease from metal, they hang the part to be degreased above it. IF something like that got into the floor (what is the flooring?), thats some bad shit never touch the part yet the grease runs off.
BTW I am not saying that is what it is, just an example I know of.

[Serapium]

Rwise the building was a metal fabrication shop prior to being repurposed to a grow. The floor is concrete, though it has since been sealed and coated in a commercial epoxy flooring compound.

[BR2K]

Who owns the building? Is it leased?

[Greenlivin]

What an absolute headache of a mess Serapium. It sounds like you’ve controlled all the variables very precisely. Reading all the previous info, the only “red flag” that pops up in my mind is the fact that this is a new facility. If you’ve grown these clones successfully before in a different building, then there has to be some sort of residual chemical(s) lingering in the building that’s hindering your grow. Just my $.02. I would take one of the infected plants to a different grow space and see how it reacts. That may give you more information as to whether it’s something with the environment.

[SoOrbudgal]

Serapium what's coming out of ventilation are there outside shit coming into vents? What's on the roof? This is so odd.