Cases of Vaping-Related Lung Illness Surge

[Gingerbeard]

Let's remember the current regulated marijuana laws are all new. For the government to say, 'Fububble it. Everyone just do your thing.' is irresponsible. That's like vegans saying all the farm animals should be released. There has to be a plan. The e-cig thing is fair. The proposed laws say the vape companies must stop selling their product immediately. The caveat, on vape companies side, is they can continue selling their product when the poisons they put in the pens pass through the FDA. Whatever anyone thinks about that agency. That's an agency that makes the chance of getting bad foods that can make folks real sick. I know it happens.
Every prohibition creates a black market. Will the BM come from China? Maybe a Mexican vape juice cartel? If it is announced, tomorrow, that e-cigs will be band at 12:01AM of Friday, there will be a run on vape stores. People will stock up, keep dying, selling a 30ml bottle for $200. That last bit sounds like a good idea, actually.
I grabbed this after searching for PG uses
"Propylene glycol is used by the chemical, food, and pharmaceutical industries as an antifreeze when leakage might lead to contact with food. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as an additive that is "generally recognized as safe" for use in food." There is nothing in that statement that says the FDA will rule it safe for the lungs. I can't imagine how antifreeze would be.
Vegetable glycerin is used in food and makeup and junk. I would rather not vape any of those products. VG is also food safe. Nobody has said it's safe for the lungs. With the current pressure from the government and society, the FDA is going to have to do a super fantastic job of proving it is so.
By now, there probably is some Mexican vape juice cartel at the ready to get their juice made and smuggled over. And by now, I can't imagine anyone who uses the products think it's a good thing to do. Those things can kill you faster than cancer!

[Obi-Wan]

I’ve been mixing my own VG based ejuice with nicotine for 3 years with no ill effects to this point. Is it 100% safe, absolutely not, but I feel better than I did when I smoked cigarettes. I breathe better now than I have in 20 years. My lung function was down to 75% as of 3 years ago and the last time I was tested it had returned to 98%. I mix my own for the same reason I grow my own cannabis, I don’t trust anyone else to do it for me. The harmful toxins that are talked about in regards to nicotine based juices are bi-products of the coil being fired at too high of a temperature or not replacing your coils often enough. This can be avoided by buying a higher quality device from a reputable vendor and replacing your coils frequently. THC infused vape cartridges aren’t new in the sense that they’ve been around longer than these reported cases of vape related lung illnesses. What is new are the thickeners that were introduced to the market in 2018. These thickeners are being used to make thinner lower potency THC oil resemble thicker high quality THC oil. The thickeners are made using “Proprietary” blends of synthetic cannabis terpenes and “other” ingredients. We are now learning that the other ingredients are nothing more than derivatives of Vitamin E. Street vendors are using them to stretch their concentrates and legal dispensaries are using them to offer vape cartridges at different doses while maintaining consistent draw and wicking properties. From a personal health standpoint vaping on a 1 gram THC vape cartridge that is made using only concentrate and natural cannabis terpenes is no different than doing a dab of rosin from a high quality electronic rig, your lungs are inhaling the same compounds. What we have on the market instead are cheap devices powering cartridges that are chosen because they are cheap and filled with a 50/50 at best blend of THC and a cheap synthetic thickener.

[Rwise]

I myself disagree with the FDA, PG is poison! 1 tablespoon of it will kill a dog, please dont do that it is a horable death for the animal,,,,,,

[Gingerbeard]

The FDA is going to have the final say, whatever. Then people might get with what you're saying, Obi-Wan. About coils too hot. People not changing coils. I used a pen that had a ceramic cup with a coil that got red hot. The first hit was good. Everything else was pure crap.

[Emomajic]

What's up with the boxes? You lost me there. What exactly do u use them for. Do u grow out of them? Literally.

[Gingerbeard]

I'm flowering in the boxes. My tent is 53" tall. This plant is up to 54" in the bucket. I telescope the boxes by opening the bottom flaps and dropping them down on the one below.
Take a look at what I'm talking about at the link below. It's post #123 on 8/30.

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/316142-time-to-show-your-grow/page9

[Emomajic]

Latest news blames China for flooding market with Vape that when cooled turns back to liquid in your lungs. I use Juul and order straight from the Company. At my age and the shit I've experienced I figure the good Lord is keeping me here for unknown reasons so A vaping I will go lol.

[Toker1]

How would Chinese THC cartridges make its way into an Oregon Dispencery? I’m not following this method of thinking. Maybe I am missing something?

[Rwise]

In the news, the class action law suites are starting,,, more money grubbers,,,

[GardenLady]

Isn't PG used in anti- freeze???

[Obi-Wan]

Yes, it is used in environmentally friendly, marine, rv, and in some cases food grade anti-freeze. It is dyed pink to differentiate it from traditional anti-freeze which yellow and made with ethylene glycol.

[Rwise]

I use it to make wood preservative, but yes it was used as antifreeze!

[Rwise]

BTW the wood preservative recipe said to do it outside and not to breath it, not to reuse to pot, etc.!

[GardenLady]

Well that's really some serious stuff then..and approved by the FDA.??? I don't think much of them anyway.

[s62]

The FDA (like the EPA) is a neutered joke. It needs funding, employees, and someone with half a brain at its lead (who isn’t looking to make a mint by fucking Americans).

[s62]

I’m not sure what to make of your comment. Are you suggesting that because I’m not the leader of the FDA, I have no business criticizing them? I’m lost.

[alltatup]

I have to agree w s62 here: the FDA is a whore who does the bidding of corp interests

[Toker1]

I’m saying it’s easy to criticize... what is difficult is coming up with plausible solutions.
Most aspects of any government are a joke. This is not limited to the US. Funnies part to me is that is the best anyone can come up with. 😂

[Gingerbeard]

Then let's just shut down the government as a whole. We'll hang the bankers and CEO's. Empty the prisons. No more pigs coming down on the white man. Automatic weapons for everyone. Don't forget to shut down hospitals and stop what's left of social security and other government related benefits. Better brush up on our bartering system. Perhaps we can have another revolution. Start over. I'm bored with being facetous.
I am anti tobacco and anti alcohol. I can't remember which one, or both of the industries saw they were about to get legislature up their butts to stop advertising so the company(s) decided to stop advertising on their own. The ads came back however many years ago with one huge difference. They don't show people using their products, only the products themselves with a spokesperson. Is it the Henry Rifle company that show's people using their weapons? A crossbow company showing how to use their products? Showing the fruits of their 'hunting' buy holding their harvest's head up? I am pro hunting for food, anti for sport. Without hunting laws, say, are we going to thin animal populations to (near) extinction.

[s62]

You should be writing novels, man. I love reading your posts.

[Gingerbeard]

Who's to say I'm not John Steinbeck?

[Obi-Wan]

I invite everyone to do their own research regarding the uses of the different grades of Propylene Glycol. Depending on the grade of purity it can be used in a number of different applications including manufacturing, food, and pharmaceuticals. Lab grade Propylene Glycol is used in topical, oral, injectable, and vaporizer based medications as well as some brands of eye drops. All approved by the FDA as “generally recognized as safe” applications for the use of PG. BTW, the term “generally recognized as safe” is the FDA’s way of saying as long as you use in one of these applications we won’t make you jump through hoops to get approval.

There are a vast number of everyday items that we use on a daily basis that carry the potential to be toxic but it is the dosage and delivery method that makes them a potential poison. PG can be toxic to dogs but a single tablespoon would only be toxic to 50% of the 2 pound dogs that consume it. The toxicity for dogs is 9mL/kg of body mass. My 65 lb. Labrador Retriever would need to consume just over a cup all at once for it to be considered toxic and even that dosage is only fatal to 50% of the population that consumes it. I love my dogs and I’m careful to keep harmful products away from them but I’m far more concerned with them getting into my wife’s Dark Chocolate than I am with them getting into PG because the toxicity rate is 1/2 that of PG. As with all potentially toxic substances it’s more important to keep them safely away from populations that are more susceptible at lower doses.

There is literally tons of disinformation both for and against the use of PG in vapor products. The truth is at this point we don’t know what the long term affects will or won’t be.

[Gingerbeard]

I don't get it. I'm giving you props for keeping things simple by only using VG and or PG and doing your research.

Before I post any links, please remind me where I talked THC pens and categorizing them with e-cigs or any mention I've made of "stories that you are referring to that claim people are dying or suffering from Lipoid pneumonia as a result of using Ejuice and or e-cigarettes without also using a THC Vape Distillate?" I've been talking about people dying from chemicals used in e-cigarettes. I've not given any examples or other mention of THC pens killing people, or THC killing people.
I said, "Several deaths, recently, are attributed to the chemicals in e-cigs." Never a mention of Lipoid pneumonia.
You said, "Now we are starting to see cases of Lipiod pneumonia, which is a known reaction to inhaling Vitamin E acetate."
I haven't doubted the legitimacy of using food grade PG/VG in food products. I've said, in effect, the legitimacy of using PG/VG for inhalation purposes has not been researched by anyone.
You are obviously passionate about what you make. I give you props for that, too.

[Obi-Wan]

You are correct, I am the one that mentioned Lipoid pneumonia, I did so because that is the diagnosis being given to the people that are falling ill and dying in this current epidemic. In every article that I have read the term e-cigarette is used interchangeably to describe anything that is vaped. To do so in this case only serves to spread the idea that all vaping is imminently dangerous. The reality is that vaping Vitamin E derivatives is imminently dangerous. Simply saying “ the chemicals in ecigs” creates a false generalized narrative that it is a widespread problem affecting all varieties of vaping products. I’m not trying to say that vaping is safe long term, as I said above we just don’t know yet. What I am saying is that the current epidemic that is creating the imminent danger, is the result of people buying and vaping counterfeit products containing a Vitamin E derivative. It is a specific product that nearly all good cartridge manufacturers have said should not be inhaled and it is being found in most all counterfeit THC distillate pens. Juul Labs is also experiencing a problem with counterfeit pods being produced.
There is one death associated with product from a legal dispensary in Oregon. This death has led to legal finger pointing between the manufacturer of the thickener used in the pen that says it had approval and the regulatory authority in Oregon that says the Vitamin E derivative should have been listed as an ingredient and wasn’t. Oregon dispensaries have contacted the manufacturers and started recalling all vape pens that are contaminated with the Vitamin E derivative.

[Gingerbeard]

Social media, including radio, TV, and print indict before the end of the story. Like you're saying, tobacco and THC vape pens are being categorized together. However, there is semi-responsible reporting that reports only that tobacco pens are thought to be making people sick and there is only a possibility THC pens are involved. People will choose to hear what they want to hear to back up their own opinion without hearing the whole story. When I hear 'e-cig' I automatically think cigarette. When I hear 'vape pen' I think weed. And I hear media using 'electronic cigarettes' more than 'e-cig' or 'vape pen'.
If it turns out THC pen manufacturers have added similar/same chemicals as the e-cigs, they should be treated the same way. A poison by any other delivery system is just as deadly.
I've read dispensary reviews where many people were saying the dispensary was selling refilled Stiiizys. Counterfeits are going to come out like counterfeit ecstasy pills and fentanyl laced heroin. I've mentioned before that we have to trust somebody at sometime. I have a product from a company I like. I stick with that unless I decide to get something high-end because I've come to trust it. We all have brands we like.
Something about the legality of making manufacturers quit producing, for now. If the government bans sales, they will be forcing companies out of business and jobs will be lost. Dispensaries will lose revenue. However big, small, evil, or charitable a company, it's going to be a hell of a legal thing if the ban happens. It just ain't 'merican.
Someone is going to have to prove the chemicals used in any vape pen are safe to inhale or find new ones that are. That will not be a quick or easy task. The FDA will have the final say. There is nothing wrong with a federal agency telling me not to use something because it's bad for me. Sure as hell the vape companies won't give me a heads up.

[Farmall]

Found this tonight on an article on Leafy

a guy in Wisconsin was arrested for illegal manufacture of 3000 to 5000 vape cartridges per day....

[alltatup]

That's insane.

[Gingerbeard]

The pig in the White House, the FDA, and the CDC are all involved in preventing what's going on. Believe it or not. Like it or not. Accept they're trying to find out what the f is killing people and stop it. We'll get back to the good old days of non-poisonous vape products soon enough. No chemical or additive has been found to be causing this and that is what is being said. What is being said is that some chemical or combination of chemicals that are recently being added may or may not be causing people to get sick. Since we have a good idea of what chemicals go into any vape pen we can talk about and focus on those. If you've been using your product since the good ol' days, keep on trucking.

People who are still using a product that may contain a chemical that will cause a nasty death real quick like are fing doing it to themselves. Enough of humanity is willing to kill themselves with a product for a high or a 15% discount or a rebellious act so there will always be a black market. The original title of this thread is about vape related lung illness with the focus not being on THC pens. Just e-cigarettes. I'm super confused where this whole thing has wound up.

I'm unsubscribing to this one. It's making me too political... gingerbeard don't do politics. Dabs or no dabs. I'm here about growing weed.