Cases of Vaping-Related Lung Illness Surge

[alltatup]

Hi all: I'd like to point out immediately that this is related to e-cigarettes and not to cannabis. And this comes as no surprise to me, because the warnings have been out for a long time now about the dangers of vaping the liquids they use in e-cigs.

"C.D.C. officials said they believe that some “chemical” is involved as the cause but they have not identified a single responsible “device, product or substance,” Dr. Meaney-Delman said."

As always in the good ole usa, profits preempt people...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/h...d-disease.html

[Rwise]

What I am seeing in the propaganda is the problems have been found with both ecig and THC. They have said do not use street cartridges as they may be contaminated, used something harmful. But what if it has nothing to do with the liquid being vaped?..What if it is a gas expelled from the heating element? What is the heating element made of? IDK,,, do you?
Whatever the cause, I am no longer looking for a vape device, not until this is solved!

[alltatup]

Rwise The problem is not with THC, which has been inhaled for thousands of years. The problem, I would assume, is with the liquids used. PG is some nasty-ass shit, if you ask my opinion, but all the commercial cartridge makers use it. It may very well be safe for consumption, but not for inhalation, and this info has been out there for a while, if people just look.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/acm.2016.0337

https://www.projectcbd.org/update-toxic-marijuana-vape-oil-additives-endanger-patients

https://www.projectcbd.org/industry/how-safe-your-vape-pen

[Rwise]

Yes, they say neither THC nor Nicotine are the cause of this.

[Weed Pharma]

I have yet to try vaping cartridges, mostly due to the products that are mixed with the trichomes.
Specifically, I was aware that "food grade" terpines are added to THC extraction, which is a serious miscalculation, as food grade does not mean it's safe for inhalation.

I have made gylcerin vape juice and not added the PG- as glycerin is inert (second only to water).

That said: it looks like one additive has been identified so far, vitamin E- (WTF) and I suspect more will be found.

I will stick to dry leaf vaping and not join the "cool kids club"!

[Doubledealing72]

Still cooler than me. I'm an old fashioned 33 year old that just prefers the traditional bud and bowl 😂

[Toker1]

alltatup Straight from the article you linked...
Conclusions: PG and PEG 400 produced high levels of acetaldehyde and formaldehyde when heated to 230°C.
Here is the math....230C = 446F. No vape pen on the commercial market gets that hot. So let’s debunk this as a culprit right away.

[Gingerbeard]

This could also be bunk
"Best temperature to vape e-juice
Common vaping temperatures are in the range 392°F to 480°F (200°C to 250°C ), with the temperature usually adjusted quickly in increments of 10°F (5°C)."
Pulled that from

https://vaping360.com/best-vape-mods/temperature-control/

[Toker1]

Copied and pasted this.
CBD has a boiling point of 320-365, while THC is slightly lower at just about 315. Keeping your vaporizer between 320-340 will ensure that you are getting the most of these two critical chemicals.

https://www.cannahealth.org/vape-temperature-guide/

[alltatup]

Toker1 Thanks for that info.

[Toker1]

PG is commonly used to strengthen dough for baking bread. Oven temperatures for baking lean bread can reach 400F - 425F. We have been using PG in these products well before we were using them to vape (at much lower temperatures). If Vaping PG is dangerous, then all the bread using PG must be as well.
Sorry, just not seeing this to be valid.
Might need to see more conclusive evidence before I change my mind. Just one human’s opinion here.

[Toker1]

Remember, you don’t have to directly inhale pipe tobacco to get it into the lung cavity and bloodstream. It’s in the air, they are inhaling it. We commonly call that second hand smoke. There is also recent studies that show third hand smoke (the smoke that clings to smokers hands and clothes) gets into the lung cavity and into the bloodstream of others as well.
What about in the case of commercial lean bread baking or candy making? The workers in that industry are constantly exposed to the PG vapors while working near the bread ovens and heat transfer equipment like temper units and melting kettles. OSHA would not allow workers in the US to work in a hazardous air quality zone if they could prove it causes harm to this group. There are laws about proper air quality and proper breathing apparatuses for working around dangerous types of fumes. This is well known and documented. There are developed procedures and personal protective equipment requirements for working in hazardous air quality zones.
And if PG was the culprit of this recent epidemic in vaping illness, why hasn’t the CDC recommended to pull all products containing this substance at this point in time?
I just don’t see it to be true. I am still waiting for more conclusive evidence before I demonize this product I have been working around for many many years.

[alltatup]

Toker1 I hear you! I've read articles that come down on PG, but I probably need to read more. And I will, so that I don't go spreading rumors or opinions rather than facts. ;-} Thanks for the info!

[Toker1]

I still believe with all the recent illness, we should all avoid vaping PG, VG, PEG, or anything similar for that matter until more research is conducted. I will stick to my dry herb vape for now.
This could still be an issue of long term use in high concentrations. We just need more accurate interpretations of the data at this point in time.
I am glad you brought this topic up on here!!

[GardenLady]

When you all talk about PG what is that??? Polypropylene Glycol???

[Toker1]

Yes, that’s correct.

[Ell]

yesterday , i think on reddit led me to a couple articles about this and authority is saying vitamin E is the culprit . PG good or bad i dont know but figure all the empty cartridges come from china on the homemade ones .

[Paracelsus]

Doesn’t take a rocket science to understand, Smoking is BAD for you. That’s it, that’s the end of it, there’s no more to say. SMOKING ANYTHING is bad for you. Let me say it again, smoking is bad for you. Get it? Understand?
I’ll repeat smoking is bad for you! Don’t be a hypocrite.

[alltatup]

Vapor is not smoke.

[stump]

my first thought is the solvent such as alcohol and that the process of boiling it off isn't being done well and people are vaping a incomplete product that someone made a lot of somewhere .

[alltatup]

I'm sure the articles are referring to concentrate that hasn't been properly purged.

[stump]

some dude in racine wi just got busted for making and selling vape cartridges. He got hit with about 800 of them. you can bet people are getting ratted on about now.

[Gingerbeard]

We all take chances when we buy any marijuana concentration. I go to the same shop and get the same brand of shatter. This year I've gotten two sulfur grams. I let the store know, they took it off the shelf until they checked it out, and I was told it got sent back to the company. I have to trust somebody or only smoke every 10 weeks, or so, when I'm lucky enough to get a harvest.
When I make my own, it spends a lot of time on a plate on a 100 degree hot pad for several hours a day. I get OCD with it and mix it and play with it to help remove any remaining solvents. It doesn't beat a vac-oven but it cures like weed in that it changes flavors. It all smells the same at first, but changes smells as well.

[stump]

they will figure out. someone is probably looking over their shoulders

[Weed Pharma]

"heat not burn" device has approval by the FDA for tobacco- (you don'thear much about it- do to advertizing restrictions with tabacco)
We call it "dry leaf vaporizer" in cannabis.
Only time will tell- if it actually reduces complications, as anything with an increased temperature in the lungs can be damaging.

[Farmall]

I was watching news reports on this and I have never had as much “vapor” come out of the Pax 3 or the Ghost MV-1 as they show on those news reports. I’ve never smoked cigarettes and I avoid groups of people who smoke as the smoke kills me ( them too but they don’t believe it yet). In fact, some times with the MV-1, I’m not sure if it’s running . Those ones on TV really cloud up the area.

[Toker1]

Some corporations are as you have described.
How would you describe this (linked below) corporation?

https://www.worldbank.org/en/about

[alltatup]

Toker1 Oh, I totally agree with you re: karma. And the fact that these folks act the way they do breaks my heart. I don't feel holier than thou: they wreak all this damage and make it harder and harder to get this world going the right way.

Johnson & J's 500 million is a drop in their bucket. I want to see these lawsuits really bring some of these companies down, crashing to the ground like Sodom and Gomorrah. You know that some of these companies make more money paying for lawsuits for deaths they caused than if they had gone ahead and changed the gas tank on the car, or the medicine, etc.

[Toker1]

Check out Bayou Hedge Fund Group.
Or Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC

[GardenLady]

In 2011 I was using the brand Premium E-Cigarettes. You could order high or low mgs of nicotine. But the vapor which was supposed to be water was really PG. However I never took such a big drag off of them or real cigs to blow out clouds of vapor or smoke. And the e-cig did help me to quit smoking cigs. Never missed them hem either.. it wasn't that hard. So I'm thinking that these kids are taking such big drags off the vape pen etc that's where all the smoke comes from. And that's why their lungs are shutting down. Just a thought.

[Gingerbeard]

I wonder if ingredients have changed since then. I also wonder if there's a difference between the little bottles of vape juice and preloaded ones.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Harmless-Cigarette-Quit-Smoking-Aid-Fresh-Mint/241543629?sourceid=csebr038d9ba90bcf1444f289da9edeb3d38c8b&wmlspartner=bizratecom&affcmpid=3817209880&tmode=0000&veh=cse&szredirectid=15682128459769695798810070301008005

[alltatup]

Gingerbeard They say it contains a "proprietary breathable air filter which replicates similar features of a cigarette to help cope with behavioral symptoms associated with smoking."

But there's no list of ingredients. I wouldn't buy anything named "Harmless"; it probably has heroin in it...

[Gingerbeard]

You'd probably get the same effect from sucking on a cinnamon stick. Cinnamon sticks have very little heroine.

[Gingerbeard]

The smoke comes from vegetable glycerin. I was using the e-cigs to quit smoking as well. I realized I was just smoking a new (for me) addictive product. People know cigarettes are poison. As is alcohol. But we still love our addictions. My tobacco quitting came when I realized I was spending more on tobacco than food.
All that $hit should be illegal or there shouldn't be another conversation about how bad weed is. Kids will keep using e-cigs as long as they can get their hands on them. The only way to stop them is to make vape liquid illegal. Same goes for THC vape pens. Flower, kief, shatter made correctly, and the like are just different forms of the same thing. When you start adding products to THC vape pens, it makes it an entirely different drug.

[alltatup]

"All that $hit should be illegal or there shouldn't be another conversation about how bad weed is." True dat!! But follow the money... you'll find corrupt corporations who don't give a fk about anyone or anything but profit.

[Obi-Wan]

Prohibition is never the answer. I personally still prefer to make my own educated decisions, I’d rather my government not make them for me.

[Toker1]

Obi-Wan as much as I agree...it’s a catch 22. The less prohibition, the more the gov. controls your personal stash. I didn’t mind prohibition from the standpoint that the gov. never stuck their nose in my weed habits. Now that I am law biding...the gov. controls how many plants I have, how much I can carry, how my weed gets stashed.

[Gingerbeard]

Flip side of the coin is if you are allowed to make your own educated guesses, so does everyone else.

[Obi-Wan]

I’m ok with that

[Gingerbeard]

My friend O-Wan, we live in different worlds.

[Obi-Wan]

I don’t want you to misconstrue my statement, I’m a firm believer in common sense regulation, we all need protection from all the greedy profit mongers looking to make a buck at someone else’s expense. I also firmly believe that everyone on this earth has the right to make their own choices, given those choices don’t harm anyone else.

[Gingerbeard]

I won't post a link because I know y'all can do the research and make your own educated guesses. Looks like the pig living in the White House is about to go medieval on e-cigs.

[alltatup]

Wow. Just read about that.

[s62]

Havent seen this yet

[Toker1]

Lol. I saw that. Then I thought, well at least until someone is willing to pay him more. We will have to see I guess...