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Second grow, rough start with yellowing between veins and twisted groth

Thanks Flockshot :) I've noticed if the wind picks up and is coming directly on the exhaust, temp rises and if i close the valve for the fireplace the fan does the job again. Overly attached to the plants, so to know how the growing day will be i check the weather forcast
 
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I'm going to try to cover a few more points of things I noted in catching up on posts here...

Okay, a plant needs three things to grow Light, Nutrients & CO2 and most people really struggle with the light aspect, because plants can really take up a lot of light, and finally once you have maxed out your lighting for the plant, it will stop growing, until you add CO2... Until you really get to the point of maxing out your CO2 it won't really be cost effective to add CO2 to your grow. Think of it as running a racing fuel for your car as you drive around town stopping and starting and just doing everyday driving, chances are you will not get the performance factors you are hoping for. When you do get to the point of running CO2 again it depends on the lighting, etc... but the books say running CO2 aim for a temp of 84-degrees F... There are even ways to run hotter yet, such as if your plant root zone is 60-65 degrees then you can push hotter temps, and adding CO2 will again increase growth rates even more still. To a new grower this sounds amazing... but here is why I encourage others to learn to grow without CO2 to start out... Because if you get a pH or nute issue, it can affect the plant very fast because you have got the plant growing as fast as it can, compare it to having to make sudden changes to your driving at high speeds verses slower speeds, if and when the plant has a problem CO2 will make the problem speed up too. Also remember CO2 is a gas heavier than air and so you need your room sealed air tight and rain it down over the tops of the plants for best results, also put a fan or something on the floor blowing the CO2 enriched air up towards the plants and around, try to get your money's worth out of the CO2 as much as you can.

If you have an LED light on a controller inside the room, you can always cover the LED's with electrical tape, cheap to fix the light issue there. When you run CO2 you can change the humidity in the room because of the CO2 and because the room is sealed air tight it can lead to issues of high humidity and thus mold issues. When you think of temps, make sure you think of them in two ways... Root Temps and Foliage Canopy Temps... Root temps shouldn't be below 65 for a cooler room (below 80) but the higher you push the room temps the lower you can lower the Root Temps down to 60 to keep the plant in balance. If the floor is to cold raise the plants off the floor just a couple of inches will make a huge difference. People don't realize the Earth/concrete floors can and do suck the heat right out of the air and the bottom of plants pots too if you don't know to be on the lookout for it. Your cooler room temps have me wondering if this could be an issue for you... Because you said "bag seed" earlier and I was just reading an in depth chapter in a book on the male to female ratios based off from proper room temps. Cooler temps promoted more males, while warmer temps promoted more females, and if you got to warm then the ratio went back to more males again. It was also getting very detailed as to when the cannabis plant actually sexes itself because the gender isn't just from the seed, but also from environmental conditions also influence its gender.

There was even a part I was reading on bag seeds and the chances of the seeds being hermies or possibly having the hermie trait in its off spring, hence why so many people do not want to deal with bag seeds because it leaves you with so many question marks of unknowns. In your case I am making you aware of all of this because of your cooler room temps, possibility of hermies from bag seed, males verse female ratio, etc... The best advice I would have for a new grower is to just let the plants grow from seed to fully mature a couple of full cycles without doing anything extra special, such as CO2, stress training, etc... just see what the plant does, how it does it, and get used to the basic plant's life cycle. I say this because its really the best approach, some strains of cannabis do really well under different types of conditions...

When you buy seeds you can research things about a strain, when a strain says its an indoor or outdoor strain for example, if you move it opposite of what it recommends you have knowingly put it into an environment you have been told it does not do well in, and that means you have now stressed your plant. The more stress a plant is put under the more likely it is to hermie or have other mutations if what it prefers for an environment is not optimal, and that is why strains are bred for specific traits and why they tell us so much when you buy seeds and why all these databases put together by people about strains so you can research it and see what others have tried and what has or hasn't worked for them. Bag seeds are most times outdoor crops, grown to be fast growing with high yields and those who grow in this fashion typically care about pest resistance over over aspects an indoor grower would look for in the traits of the seeds they would want, as pests aren't a big issue inside. Your seeds will grow and they will produce bud for you to smoke and enjoy, my point is simply that it isn't cost effective for you to pour extra into your grow this time because you have the cards stacked against you compared to what you could have later on for big yields when you have the chance to get a couple of grows under your belt and understand the basic plants lifecycle and how things work, and iron out whatever problems and issues you discover in your setup as you get going and get them fixed.

Oh and some strains do better in stress training than other strains, hence the idea of why some people do spend a bit of time researching what strain(s) they want to grow given how they have things set up versus another. It's not just about how tall a plant can grow, but really so much more and believe me there is a lot to learn for the serious grower. You can grow cannabis anywhere it seems, even in nature it will either survive or die and it will try to adapt to its environment... at the end of the day the happier she is during her lifetime, the happier you are going to be. But at the end of the day no matter how great of a system you put together you will never be able to out grow the genetics of the seeds you start with.
 
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That's alot of great info Greenthumb, you really know so much about growing! This kind of knowlege is not found in the top layer of the internet for sure;) I've been told the part about CO2 not worth the while until every other aspect is optimalized. Just got a bit overexcited while ordering and put two down, wanting the best. Now that its opend and doing its job, they have aprox doubled in a day or two so the speed in the growing car is high --> potential speed accident i guess if theres a big bump in the road. But as they're doing so good, driving so fast, it would take every piece of my self controll to remove the CO2 bags cuz i love this speed.

The green room is on the upper floor, with a luke warm room beneath. Can one just poke a temp probe up a drainage hole and check that way? I've heard about heat mats, and wrapping pots in reflective foil to get the temp down. Will check the temp if possible and try to make the best i can for my green leafy friends. Thats all i want. The best for them.

Was told to start with bagseed and climb the steep learning curve that follows. So many advices and they can sometime contradict eachother. The money spendt is a significant amount by now, but this hobby feeds my spiritual self and give me some sence of purpose; to wake up to something i got a passion for. There's like an endless universe of knowlege around growing cannabis, like chess, and I am AMAZED.
 
Greenthumb said:
Your cooler room temps have me wondering if this could be an issue for you... Because you said "bag seed" earlier and I was just reading an in depth chapter in a book on the male to female ratios based off from proper room temps. Cooler temps promoted more males, while warmer temps promoted more females, and if you got to warm then the ratio went back to more males again. It was also getting very detailed as to when the cannabis plant actually sexes itself because the gender isn't just from the seed, but also from environmental conditions also influence its gender.
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In the tutorials http://www.growweedeasy.com/temperature its state 20-30 degrees C for veg, quite a huge spectrum. Had 25C / 77F with some fluctuation for the first 10 days and then jacking it up to 27C/81F. Read somewhere, no source sry, that small plants needs a bit cooler temps to start off with. Was thinking of giving them some time before raising the temp again if this CO2 rapid growth seems to be going without problems occuring.

I guess its nearly impossible to say when you dont know the strain, or even if its Indica or Sativa, but at witch temperatures are the best chances of getting the highest precentage of females?

Also, what's the name of the book you were reading? :)
 
No, that actually makes sense now, and I've heard of people doing that. I don't think it would hurt anything to make your change more gradually! I can see how that might be less stressful for the plant, though it won't hurt them to do the switch overnight, either :)

And you've got the exact right idea with the pH (putting it in just a touch high if it's coming out a touch low). Sounds like you're right on track!
 
The name of the book is "The Cannabis Breeders Bible, by Greg Green" and I can honestly say that his writing actually rates up there in my eyes with Ed Rosenthal work... Page-138, paragraph 4... It says going below 65-55 temps (F) will promote more male to female ratios, and 75-85 it will also promote more male to female ratios.... so they want you to try to keep the temps between 65-75 degrees before "calyx" development, which is according to this book when the actual sex of the plant is actually finally set.
 
It's interesting you say that! I've also looked a little bit into the variability of cannabis plant gender. A few years ago I spoke with an outdoor grower who grows hundreds of regular seeds every year, and has to germinate and sex all of them. He said the following things would increase percentage of female plants from regular seeds:

* Cool temperatures (65-75°F day and night)
* High humidity (50-70% RH)
* Short but not too short days. Keep consistent day and night periods with no light interruptions at night, and days should be 14-18 hours long (between 14/10 and 18/6)
* Blue light. Always start seeds under a vegetative grow light (something with plenty of blue like a Metal Halide or a 6500k CFL/T5/fluorescent)
* Make sure to provide plenty of Nitrogen - don't let plants get nutrient starved or run into deficiencies
* Prevent stress, especially heat or light stress during first 4 weeks
* Avoid over-watering but especially under-watering

On the other hand, he said that a lot of environmental or light stress during the first few weeks, combined with hot, dry temperatures, could net him up to 70% male plants!

Definitely more study is needed, but it's interesting it matches with what you've read from Greg Green!

In a similar vein, Jorge Cervantes has also talked about how it's important to make sure a plant has actually expressed its gender before taking cannabis clones, because sometimes the gender won't be the same if you take them before! This seems to indicate that the sex gets determined at some point after the seedling has already germinated, but before it expresses its first flowers!

Take clones from mother plants that are at least 2 months old. If taking clones from seedlings, wait until male or female pre-flowers are easily visible with the naked eye. Clones taken from female plants cloned before they have expressed sex may dawn male flowers or develop poorly when induced to flower with a 12/12-hour day/night photo-period.
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But some things are definitely left up to genetics. Feminized seeds will produce female plants almost every time, no matter what you do. So it sort of seems like "male-ness" and "female-ness" are more on a scale than just a yes/no equation. This goes along with what we've seen in nature, because in some wild populations of hemp, just about every plant makes both male and female flowers. Yet in other parts of the world the wild hemp is always only purely male or female. Probably each strategy works better in certain environments.

As breeders, we strive to ONLY breed plants that are firmly male or female, and avoid breeding hermaphrodites, because it's so important to avoid any pollination if you want to produce the best cannabis!
 
Wow, I agree with every single point you made... but since you brought it up, the book also brought out the "feminized seed" verses why its not "female seeds" you still can hermie a female seed or stress it in some cases to still be a male, if not in the plant that grows from the seed but perhaps in future offspring. Back when feminized seeds came out they tried using the term "female cannabis seeds" but because of the process stressing the seeds to be such a high ratio of females, and since not all were female, some would hermie and others would be male, they went with the term "feminized seeds" to better reflect the process of how the seeds are different from those untreated.

While I have not read any of Jorge Cervantes, I have watched his videos on YouTube, and others have spoken highly of his work, and from what I've seen in his video's I do plan to read his books at some point. I have almost all of Ed Rosenthal's books and a few other authors. It is so amazing how every author pretty much says the same thing repeatedly, and then you hear others not understanding why they have problems when they grow outside the extremely set guidelines you just pointed out.
 
On the point about feminized seeds producing hermies, the breeder makes a huge difference. The way the breeder feminizes the seeds, and how well the breeder runs the breeding program, both have a huge effect on the likelihood of hermies. I wrote a little bit about it here if you're interested: http://www.growweedeasy.com/feminized-seeds-hermies

But basically, if you ever breed a plant that hermies naturally, you are producing seeds that may also have the tendency to herm naturally. When it comes to feminized seeds, you should ONLY use seeds that are produced by chemical feminization (never feminization from natural causes like heat stress, light stress or rhodelization). And you need to test your offspring between two plants thoroughly before selling them, to double and triple-check that there are zero genetics that will produce hermies in regular conditions.

When you stick with a professional breeder, you will get female plants from feminized seeds 99.99% of the time. But when using unscrupulous breeders you may just end up with a bunch of hermies!
 
Again I 100% agree with you, while it is "rare" we all hear enough people say "its just a weed and you can do anything to it and it will still do its thing, it doesn't matter" and perhaps you have also seen some of those growing environments which make you cringe and be appalled at the growing conditions. It is so hard to ever want to commit and say anything as a "for sure" rule or fact, because of all those variables which can be influenced by the person and how their growing. Other places I've responded in full details like you are doing and got told it was a waste of time and nobody wanted to hear it... but I really thrive on reading all the information I can. I just read that link you posted a week ago, and I read it again and will still read it again tonight because I 100% agree with every bit of it that it brings out. That is why I think this place is so awesome, because not only is this website a great place to learn and brush up on things at, but its members such as you are well very educated on the subjects as well and happy to educate others.

I'm going to go start a new post and tag you and see if we can't wrap our heads around something else equally as exciting as this conversation, because it is a real pleasure to engage in the exchange of information with you.
 
NebulaHaze I thought your name sounded familiar, and then I thought it is because of my love of Haze and assumed it was a strain's name I was looking at lately is why I knew your name. I know you said you wrote a little on the topic and I followed the link and read everything there again, I still didn't make the connection. It wasn't until I was reading my emails and I went back to my last email from this site which is super loaded with so much information and then I finally made the connection as to who I think you are now... Are you one of those people or thee one who is writing all these articles I've been pouring through since I found this site? I've got a message for those people if you can pass it along...

Since I discovered this site for one of those articles, I got so deep into what I was reading I had kept clicking on another link for another article to read when I finished the one I was one, a few days passed and I had my browser loaded with articles from your site and no matter how many of them I read through I still kept finding up to date detailed information, and in such quantity I was frankly blown away. This truly is a very well put together site by everyone involved and the work is simply top notch from everything I've seen and read, I speak to others very highly of your website. You are truly a cut above the rest, and in the ever rapidly changing cannabis industry as it continues to roll out on so many levels for so many of us, it is truly nice to have found a top notch site dedicated to putting all the information to be the best grower ever all into one single place for everyone to have access to. The weekly emails that come to my email are simply hands down worth every bit of time I spend reading it, and re-reading it a few more times to absorb it all, very well done and put together.
 
Awww shucks, you're making me blush! Yes, we have a few guest articles but most of them are written by me or SiriusFourside :) We've been working on the site since 2010 and we're so ecstatic it's been helping people bring more cannabis into the world! The more people who grow, the more bud there is for everyone! Thanks so much for the compliments, and we're glad to hear the site has been helping you!
 
On the track, woohaaa :D This train woulda derailed long ago without the help of all of you guys, priceless ! With yours and Greenthumbs info about what inspires female plants i figure the temp exceeding 75F, low humidity on 25-40%, combined 6500/2700K light 24/7 with symthoms of overwatering i might try to seduce them softly into flowering..
 
Greenthumb said:
NebulaHaze I thought your name sounded familiar, and then I thought it is because of my love of Haze and assumed it was a strain's name I was looking at lately is why I knew your name. I know you said you wrote a little on the topic and I followed the link and read everything there again, I still didn't make the connection. It wasn't until I was reading my emails and I went back to my last email from this site which is super loaded with so much information and then I finally made the connection as to who I think you are now... Are you one of those people or thee one who is writing all these articles I've been pouring through since I found this site? I've got a message for those people if you can pass it along...

Since I discovered this site for one of those articles, I got so deep into what I was reading I had kept clicking on another link for another article to read when I finished the one I was one, a few days passed and I had my browser loaded with articles from your site and no matter how many of them I read through I still kept finding up to date detailed information, and in such quantity I was frankly blown away. This truly is a very well put together site by everyone involved and the work is simply top notch from everything I've seen and read, I speak to others very highly of your website. You are truly a cut above the rest, and in the ever rapidly changing cannabis industry as it continues to roll out on so many levels for so many of us, it is truly nice to have found a top notch site dedicated to putting all the information to be the best grower ever all into one single place for everyone to have access to. The weekly emails that come to my email are simply hands down worth every bit of time I spend reading it, and re-reading it a few more times to absorb it all, very well done and put together.
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SOOO ALL OF THIS!!!! esp, the part about reading and clicking and reading and clicking and it was all so...COMPREHENSIVE....just SO SO far above and beyond the rest of everything that i looked at online. and since i research the shit out of whatever i'm doing, i looked at a lot...

:smile::smile::smile::smile:
 
One of the biggest helping aspects of your site is that I can actually tell people to come here to find the well written articles and then hop over to the Forums if they still didn't learn or understand what they needed to grasp. Maybe you don't surf the cannabis forums out there, but 98% of it is new growers and most people arguing you can just do whatever, RH, temps, lighting... etc... doesn't really matter and then they get so upset if you link it to an article or fact that sides with the proof and truth because it isn't from there. Really at the end of the day like you said, it should be about more of us teaching those who don't know everything we do know so there is more for us all at the end of the day.

I came to cannabis cultivation some years ago because I know gardening and plants and a friend of mine was growing and ran into an issue and came to me for help since I know plants... LMAO, honestly I thought I knew plants but I had to really sit down and get schooled by some masters like Ed Rosenthal and other well known authors and people such as yourself who know more than I... In the end I learned I didn't know nearly half as much as I thought I did about plants and that cannabis cultivators could take their skills and knowledge and really learn to garden and be like master gardeners with huge crops compared to others. Having crossed that bridge between the two sides I've gotten others who have been gardening for 20+ years to also come look at cannabis cultivation as another huge and amazing resource to change how we grow foods, trees, bushes, etc... and it came as no surprise that even BIG AG turned their attention the leaps and bounds the cannabis industry is changing the way we think of nutrients in the field, crop rotation, etc... BIG AG is even seriously looking at using strains of cannabis to clean up fields from everything from radioactive materials like around Chernobyl and Fukushima to also removing years of salt build up in the soil from years of traditional BIG AG fertilizing which now leave land unable to grow any crops.

This is coming out at BIG AG shows and at the commercial cannabis expo's as well, and when I am at the grain elevator and farmers are asking questions about something they read about and having questions about cannabis cultivation, I really want to send them to a place for knowledge not just basics of skimming over it, but the really detailed information they want and need. I do believe it is an article in Big Buds Magazine which brought forth a few farmers who turned to AN as their fertilizer choice and turned out some massive food crop yields which pulled them out of debt that year and saved the farm for their families, and had they not they would have lost the farm and everything else. There is a lot of people turning their attention to the cannabis cultivation industry, new tech is coming out all the time at every trade show and steps are being taken all the time towards legalization because people are finally seeing the huge positive impacts this is having on all kinds of technologies, especially in BIG AG as it was recently brought out in something I was reading about being discussed in the US Gov relating to how cannabis is having a seriously big impact on BIG AG technologies and growing in hydroponics.

Hence why I am so head over heels on the fact the articles here are so detailed, so broken down and simplified so I can happily send people to a place to really get educated. As we both know it always boils down to how much you really understand of what you know, the more you can understand and make the right changes at the right times the bigger the yields, the better the quality, and the happier the grower... no matter the crop. The more people return to putting their own hands onto plants of whatever strain, type and variety the more we each return to taking responsibility for our food and medicines again, the healthier and happier I believe we all will be for it in the end.
 
I hear you about reading and re-reading to really absorb the knowlege, tons of grea stuff, thank you so much for taking time to explain this in detail! According to the criterias for promoting females im out on deep waters. Only thing i got going right on those terms are providing enough N.. After reading NebulaHaze's link on variability of cannabis plant gender the next step would be banana peels.

Haha, just kidding :P Tho it's possible to buy ethylene gas. Gonna read up on that for education purpuses, but as im probably facing 70% males with the current conditions it would possibly be cost effective.

Got the booktitle and authors written down and will for sure try to get my hands on some of that literature!

Will also post some pictures later of the new growth, it's good looking and symetrical :D
 
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