Second grow, rough start with yellowing between veins and twisted groth

[Xaliuz]

Hello GWE peeps! My friends call me Xaliuz, and i've come here in search of wisdom and guidance as i've run into
some trouble. I currently live on the 68th northern latitude where the climate in the winter is cold and dry wich
interferes with the growroom conditions. The daily humidity lies between 25 and 32% so i spray the walls to get it above
45% witch keeps me going in quite often, tho this will be great for flowering.

For equipment there's a 600w MH with medium adjust a wings defender, 2x 250w 6500k CFLs, its a soil grow mix PKK 12-14-24
with the whole Advanced Nutrients series, 2x109m3 pipe fans with a temp controller attached, currently in 1gal squared
pots going into 4 gal in about a week. There's also a 9" ocilating fan working its thing. The watering.. there's hard
tap-water ph'ed at 8.5 (!!) no chlorine but tons of calsium. Should also mention that it's bag-seeds of a uknown strain,
currently got the drop PHtester but a digital meter is coming in about a week together with PH up and calibration and
storage liquids. Currently using lemon juice as PH down witch probably aint optimal. And and the soilbag sais PH 6,0.

This is my second bag-seed grow, last run i got 4/6 females and one hermied on me. This time I started with a crowd of 25
smallones, and im thinking of trying ScrOG without any plant training what so ever. This should result in about 12 girls.
Have anyone tryed this? What do you guys think about that method, pros and cons? The runnoff water is messured at about
6ph, not below but stil not as high as 6.5 (drop tester). Id guess 6.1-6.2 but the precise colour is hard to pinpoint.

From the start 30% of the seelings looked sick. They've only got spiked with the root stimulator and yesterday they were
fed a 2/5 dose of Advanced grow with nitrogen. If i should diagnose them myself it looked like a Brom deficiency as they
were crooked and growing wierd. You can see from the pictures some leaves are curled downwords as might indicate
overwatering or a slight nitrogen burn? There's also some light discoloration close to the veins, magnesium def maby?
Runoff PH is just over 6. If you guys could look at the pictures and tell me what you think and some guidance on how to
continue i'd be greatful! ohh yea almost forgot, the first seeds came out of the dirt 24th of january and the rest came
1-3 days after so soon done with week 2.

My friend allways grow's with bagseeds and claims that reducing lightning 30min everyday before flower reduses the risk of hermies, is
there any truth to this statement?

Cheers and tokes, Xaliuz.

 

[Beach_Town_Brit]

Hi Xaliuz and welcome.
Most of those seedlings looks great to me and I assume they've all received the same treatment so I'd be tempted to just write off the troubled ones and blame genetics. Not all seeds are created equal.

I've not heard the light dimming at the end of the day/hermie thing before. I've never had any hermies but from what I've read it's about stress and the classic cause is photo fems getting interrupted during their 12 hours of darkness in the flowering stage.

 

[Xaliuz]

Thanks Brit! Been following this form for a while without creating an account, and it seems like such a friendly and including community

What about the leaves that's curled down with the tips inwords towords the stem, also bad genetics?

 

[William and Sue Ashley]

Like That..I just for my first time planted 2 WW,X.....They have all gotten the same treatment and there is 1 threw 4, size wise...the 2 that are small, were my first germs.....the 2 for the 2nd plant did different....will do again, twice the size.of the first 2.....

 

[Beach_Town_Brit]

From the first picture? I might give that one another week to see how it firms up. Switch thing up on it, if it's been wet let it dry out a bit, or vice versa.

Given that it's bagseed and not commercial seeds a 70% success rate seems all good to me. I don't have much experience with actual deficiencies but it's my feeling that it's a little early for nute deficiencies to be coming up. I think more likely culprits at this stage might be watering, Ph, medium, or genetics.

 

[Xaliuz]

Yea that one. I'll take u up on ur advice and give it some time. Allright some time baby, it just needs some time and so be it. Perhaps it'll clear up with a bit less water. 1gal pots were to big for small plants and therefor i guess it got to much water. Poked a few couple of holes in the top 1-2 inch of the dirt with a clean bamboo stick hoping it will dry out a bit faster

The super special ones can't have any future, but i'll wait til replanting before the grim reaper does his thaang. By then the spacing will become an issue.


Thanks for the input, really appreciate it!!

 

[NebulaHaze]

My friend allways grow's with bagseeds and claims that reducing lightning 30min everyday before flower reduses the risk of hermies, is
there any truth to this statement?

I'd never heard anything about dimming the lights before the dark period to reduce hermies. One of the best things you can do to make sure your plants don't herm is to make sure every night they get uninterrupted dark periods without any light leaks. Your "night" should start at the same time every day, so you will get the best results by putting your grow lights on a timer. You also want to make sure your plants don't get too hot or otherwise stressed in the flowering stage.

Other than that it's basically up to genetics. Some plants will herm no matter what you do, and some won't herm even in the most stressful conditions!

Perhaps it'll clear up with a bit less water. 1gal pots were to big for small plants and therefor i guess it got to much water. Poked a few couple of holes in the top 1-2 inch of the dirt with a clean bamboo stick hoping it will dry out a bit faster

I think this is exactly it! Your plants look green and healthy, but some of them look a touch overwatered. Even if you don't do anything differently, it's a problem that will take care of itself soon because your plants will be drinking a lot more!

My only other advice is to make sure you get some real PH Down (t's much more effective than lemon juice), as keeping the pH between 6-7 in soil is one of the best ways to reduce the chance of nutrient deficiencies down the road.

Overall it sounds like you're on the right track and your garden lis shaping up nicely!

 

[Xaliuz]

Hey Nebula Thank you for your informative reply! What i meant by reducing 30 min everyday was to, between 18 and 12 hours switch, increase night time by 30 min everyday, so over a 12 day period, it slowly goes towords autumn for a soft trasition with less stress. Im not gonna try that method but i thought it sounded logical in some way. Anyhow, i've stood inside at daytime with the lights off with the room sealed off and it was complete nautical darkness.

Got PHdown and a digital PHmeter traveling through the mail system as we speak. Is just above 6 PH too low for runoff? Should i just keep putting in 6.5+ish til the runoff PH goes abit up?

I appreciate the thorough help, wooow what nice people cannabis worshippers are Blaze in peace my fellow growers!

 

[PigSquishy]

Well since you are trying to take your grow seriously, when you checked for light leaks... most people think it means to go in close the door, look and then leave... to really check, you need to go in and close the door for 10-15 minutes to give your eyes a real chance to adjust to the darkness, one thing people will over look is the LED lights on electrical equipment for the grow and now according to latest science plants do use a tiny amount of green light.

When it comes to the gradual shift of the time... don't waste your time... a l;ot of the commercial growers are switching to a 6-hours of light, 2-hours of darkness photoperiod... to help it make sense, stay awake 16-hours straight... compared to taking a 2-hour nap every 6-hours, the moment you start to lose your edge you sleep and get the edge back. For plants they say it means faster, bigger growth, with increased yields. They pull right from Veg rooms to put into Flower Rooms 12-12 light period, if you really want to speed up the switch from Veg to Flower, put them in the total darkness for 3-days when you end Veg until you start Flowering at 12-12 and it will speed up the plants going into flowering.

In all my years growing the two biggest issues I had was over watering and pH... I do not see the "twisted leaves" you mention, just the curled leaf and that just shows the plant is a little over watered, as others also told you. If you had a pH issue it would show up in the leaves, but yours look very nice you are off to a good start.

 

[Alumahead]

Not all seedlings thrive at first and some folks tend to weed out the runts early on, but I like to let them run a while before discarding as slow starters can sometimes be strong finishers. It's also my understanding that the only way to actually get a hermie is by light poisoning (lights too close or too intense), drastically altered light schedules or light leaks. Genetics can also be an issue as seeds from a hermied plant will likely hermie, too! On another note; as a personal preference I like fabric grow bags for soil as they are inexpensive and make it nearly impossible to over water. Otherwise, I'd say you are off to a good start.

 

[Xaliuz]

Well since you are trying to take your grow seriously, when you checked for light leaks... most people think it means to go in close the door, look and then leave... to really check, you need to go in and close the door for 10-15 minutes to give your eyes a real chance to adjust to the darkness, one thing people will over look is the LED lights on electrical equipment for the grow and now according to latest science plants do use a tiny amount of green light.

-Nice tip Greenthumb, thank you! Hadn't thought it through thoroghly. (that was fun to write while flying high ) The fan controller got a green and red light, but is luckly placed on the outside wall. Gonna let the eyes adjust real good and then check for leaks. To bad it's not healthy for plans to be around ganja smoke while i wait haha. Got the window outside the grow-room sealed aswell as a light safety messure.

if you really want to speed up the switch from Veg to Flower, put them in the total darkness for 3-days when you end Veg until you start Flowering at 12-12 and it will speed up the plants going into flowering.

-Wil def do that as time is somewhat of the essence. That's one reason I'm airing the idea of growing allot of plants in a sea of green style, no topping or training just light defoliation with the rest up to mother nature. Is it possible to estimate yield with such a method in comparison to more common grow styles?

In all my years growing the two biggest issues I had was over watering and pH... I do not see the "twisted leaves" you mention, just the curled leaf and that just shows the plant is a little over watered, as others also told you. If you had a pH issue it would show up in the leaves, but yours look very nice you are off to a good start.

-Thats nice to hear as overwatering is not to hard to recover from

 

[Flockshot]

Do your temps ever get at, or below 65F? If so I would make that my most likely suspect.

 

[Xaliuz]

Lights on 24/7 atm so never went under 70, allways checking max/min and writing down daily status. After the temp/fan controller arrived i set it to 77 and it fluctuates between 74 and 79

 

[Xaliuz]

Allright Alumahead, grateful for you sharing your experience with special seedlings! As its bag-seeds it'll be exciting to follow them into flowering season, depending on how many i'll keep it might be quite a big job checking every plant on a daily basis. Seems like most of the new growth is normal, i'll upload some pics soon.

What do you mean by fabric grow bags? pre-mixed soil ready for growing? I was to focused in the start and gave them way to much TLC hehe, almost smotherd them with water.

 

[Xaliuz]

No Title

Recieved 2x CO2 bags, tuned the temp up to 81 to dry them out a bit faster as they probably were overwatered. Really looks like they enjoyed the warmer conditions

 

[Eliot Pryor]

" if you really want to speed up the switch from Veg to Flower, put them in the total darkness for 3-days when you end Veg until you start Flowering at 12-12 and it will speed up the plants going into flowering".

That will work absolutly. I found out by accident. The plant got too tall and I needed to finish the ones in flower cabinet, so I just turned off the light for several days when I did put her in flower cabinet she bloomed immediately. Sometimes I've had them go 16 days after switch to see flowers. Good growing to you !!

 

[Xaliuz]

Does it stress the plant to suddenly recieve 72 hours darkness in regards of herming? And with those 16 days initializing flower; results in a overall longer strech?

 

[Flockshot]

Great on the temps. I wish I had mine that good.

 

[Xaliuz]

Ohh did the cardinal rookie mistake of thinking SoG was the same as ScrOG. Thought I invented a new growing method HAHA

 

[Eliot Pryor]

I think it probably does stress it. In my case it wasn't total darkness just turned off the grow light so it would not burn. It still got ambient light from overhead lights in garage. It recovered fast. It is 54 days in now and looks pretty nice.