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Light to leaves--not necessarily to buds???

Im struggling to follow as well, i think toker is trying to say that chloroplasts are responsible for the synthesis of starches. So leaves do store energy, the issue is how much. Which what i know, is very little.

The accumilation described is not the same as storage. Its like a backlog of photosynthates that cannot go anywhere due to the lack of a concentration gradient in the phloem. Where as storage with starch in chloroplasts or amyoplasts or sucrose in the vacuole of plant cells.

I will do further reading tonight and let you know if i find anything. Glad your excited about reading the book, raven is the best.
 
Hmm. I always considered starches and sugars to generally be carbohydrates. Well, yes I’m looking forward to the read and expanding the knowledge base.
Yes, exactly. From your previous post... mj needs very little light energy to maintain. So maybe the ratio of stored energy is very small too for that reason too. Anyway, enough speculation out of me here. Looking forward to the next read coming up. Thanks again for the useful info!!
 
Yes they are indeed carbohydrates, but what form they are in and how they are used determines whether they are considered stored resources or active resources. For example, starches made by amyloplasts are typically long term storage, found largely in stems and roots. Where as starches made by chloroplasts are almost always diurnal stores that are stored and degraded daily. Sucrose is the form mainly used to transport the energy made from photosynthesis through the phloem and therfore to all parts of the plant. Which is not considered a stored resource, as its mobile and intended for imediate use by the plant.
 
Danofdanger won't post on here his grow due to "security reasons"

-so it makes me wonder what he thinks about us that do....
 
Do you blame him? Honestly? Weird shit happens. We have alot here that ask questions but will never post pictures. I would never question their fear of posting pictures. And I see members who read alot of posts have been members since 2016 and only have 10 or 20 posts. Not to mention how many guests that are online at any given time. I read the forum for a very long time before I ever joined and posted.

I am a paranoid sort. So I understand when anyone wont post pictures. Or reads and stays silent. Or joins but rarely posts. Just saying.
 
i just wanna say, security has improved tremendously over this past two years on the site, just last year we finally got https, which is important, i use to have to disable security features in order to use the site. i track cookies and block all scrips and connections and i can tell you this site is clean, it uses aweber for the layout and google analytics for indexing, and thats it. ive also checked how the picture scrubbing works and everytime you upload an image all info is cleared, just the name and the picture itself are uploaded, no metadata, no location, nothing, so im pretty comfortable using this site. im sure if someone was after the people growing weed theyll just check amazons "marketing" data for growing equipment. i mean even monitoring seeds sales would be more effective to track down growers.
 
Well I'm sure you can tell from my posts I got over it. Lol Just saying I do understand where they are coming from.
 
So a funny thing happened to me this morning. Had a water pump failure. My mimosa mother took it the hardest. She was looking very sad last night. Had to give her a hand watering. She was able to revive herself, when I noticed the lower leaves. After the plant bounced back, some of the very lower leaves died off. Not a normal leaf shed, these were still a very very dark green...but dried up and shriveled. Looks like the lower leaves gave up their water to maintain plant survival in a drought situation. This was one theory I mentioned in the previous post. There may be no stored starches inside of leaves, but there is plenty of stored water. And in my case with the mimosa plant, only the lower leaves were sacrificed. The uppers were perfectly fine this morning.
 
Water movement through the xylem is unidirectional, it cannot flow back out of leaves as it goes against the negative pressure created by transpiration. Only phloem is bi directional as its a partly active process which can be controlled.
 
So the plant shed it’s lower leaves in an effort to conserve what little resources were left in my mimosa mother plant case then?
 
Maybe, but its more likely that the lower leaves did not respond to the water stress as quickly as the top leaves and closed their stomata much later. Causing more water to be transpired.
 
Ha yea the way all that information comes across can be intimidating and it's easy to think you are getting a lesson. But I personally enjoy the textbook marijuana science lessons that Dano/Dr.Photon has to offer. Nothing but solid, factual evidence. Freely shared, and offered to all with an earnest regard for the truth.

All I'm saying: with THAT knowledge, we want to see THOSE plants Dan!
 
Yeah, comparing 2 dif. strains like that is like comparing apples to oranges. You are right, some make more or less leafs and buds than others. But this is all strain dependent. And with defoiling... well that’s just as strain depend as bud to leaf ratios are. Some respond well, others do not. You really have to dial in a few grows to get to know your genetics. I try and make each grow cycle consistent with the next. If I want to make a change, I’ll change only 1 thing and compare the results with my last grow for that same strain. The more variables you add, the less likely you will be able to accurately judge the end results.
 
Hey alltatup all this science gab can get confusing. But when you expose lower growth to light it encourages them to join the top. I don't think taking off leaves is necessary to make this happen. You can get the same results with tucking, tieing, and supercropping imho. This is why they say to stop defoliating after 3 weeks of flower as you can lose to many at the end.

This is where I feel structuring is more important then leaf removal. Though I agree that pruning to keep proper airflow,pest management, and humidity is necessary indoors. But just imagine you open up those sites with supercropping or tieing the dominating colas down rather then taking off leaves. So now by the time stretch and leaf production cease you have all these energy capturing resources still. Then you can take off whatever you see not getting light instead of trying to expose those growth tips but still have a lush plant that captures light efficiently and not prone to deficiencies. Risking chance of losing those resources in an unknown event,mishap,or health problems. Moving the leaves out of the way or taking them off later in flowering only to control humidity and such. After a certain time in a leafs life it becomes less efficient and removing it won't leave you wondering if you've taken too much off. But the upper leaves usually made during the stretch are the ones that are going to be more efficient at photosynthesis. Thus leaving you with a less efficient plant when they are removed. DrPhoton is a man of science not show and tell. These are factual references and proven science. It's fine to be a grower and not a shower it's not like he's making any claim or reference to any of his personal experience or grows.

Though the debate of defoliating still continues throughout the growing community. I tend to agree with solid proven results. And I have no reason to believe that defoliating increases yield or bud size for that matter. I've seen monster colas in both aspects of this practice and yields aren't very reliable when referring to either. Just my thought and I won't debate defoliating yes or no. I say do what works for you and live in the now and enjoy the experiences growing these magnificent plants and enjoy the fruits of your labor. If you're growing cup winners I'm sure a few leaves won't effect the quality of your smoke. ✌ 💘 😊. Growers love.
 
Yes Toker you are absolutely right about that. It was my 3rd or 4th grow on I think both plants. I would have to look it up. I knew the approx possible yields of both as I grew multiples of each on those grows.

The plant that had low leaf to bud ratio always out yielded the other plant. I tried to make all variables the same but honestly that's impossible. For example the mh/hps bulbs would have had to been brand new on all grows to even start to think it was equal. Even if you did that the umols of all bulbs even from the same company will not be exactly the same. So again not equal. I also do not know how you could actually make any comparison unless you grew lots and lots of plants both ways at the same time, place, location, condition's, from clones and not seed.

But I can tell you for sure that the low leaf to bud plant did as expected right in the middle of the range of those who came before. The other plant was about an ounce or so lower than the lowest yielding plant before. Was it the defoliation? Me screwing up somewhere? The seeds? A older bulb or newer bulb? Did the one have more air blowing on it. Well you get my point. All I can say that at least in that one grow I "think" it was me removing to many leaves. Way more than I ever had before.

Sorry for the long winded post. The jest of this is that I grow awesome plants now the way I do it. So maybe I should stick with what I know.
 
And again this is just me guessing...but I don’t think defoiling actually produces larger quantities on its own. I think there is a lot of misconceptions about that. Given the right structure, environment, and growing conditions, I think the benefits come when cramming as many thick branches together with out sacrificing the lower buds to shadows and stagnant air. If you have unlimited space, you can give each branch it’s own little spot in the wind and light where it is the most happy. I don’t think a defoiled plant would be a better producer in these conditions given proper space to exist. Most indoor growers can not afford that luxury. So in an effort to bring branches closer together, defoiling can be utilized to improve environmental conditions that cramming branches together comes with. IMO.
 
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Yes I agree on space. That's why I have unused setups. In case one or more get bigger than expected. Like I was saying I just wanted to try it. Lol
 
"Grower not a shower"
haha what are we talking about here, weed still? Haha I've been told that a few times lol
 
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