What's new
By:
GrowWeedEasy.com
You're browsing as a guest. Sign up to join the conversation, share your grows, and get help from thousands of fellow growers — it's free and takes less than a minute.

First grow Special kush #1 / white widow grow journal

I have 37acees so the plan is once I get to that level that will be outside and that would be soil . Not to say that an indoor grow isn’t still going to take place .
 
Campesino I’m saying that any form of hydro, be it dwc or coco wouldn't be economical given the run off. Growing on a commercial scale from a financial stand point is easier if done in composted soil.

To clone or not clone commercially....if it were me I would pay to test each harvest and run seeds...I could test and verify each batch, and give the customer piece of mind...profit oriented CEO’s are driven by profit, long term planning CEO’s are driven to produce quality at a sustainable rate, because at the end of the day,quality drives the market and sustainably keeps it moving.
 
Obi-Wan said:
Campesino I’m saying that any form of hydro, be it dwc or coco wouldn't be economical given the run off. Growing on a commercial scale from a financial stand point is easier if done in composted soil.

To clone or not clone commercially....if it were me I would pay to test each harvest and run seeds...I could test and verify each batch, and give the customer piece of mind...profit oriented CEO’s are driven by profit, long term planning CEO’s are driven to produce quality at a sustainable rate, because at the end of the day,quality drives the market and sustainably keeps it moving.
Click to expand...

With limitations on plants being so low it would handicap the operation. Quality control and advanced testing can be done by a third party and save the company valuable resources especially at a startup stage. He’s not growing 100k square feet of canopy... he doesn’t need each plant to go to the lab. he’s growing 72 plants. He needs a qualified nursery that already does all that and provide the farmer with a quality product to start from. Any experienced medical grower will have each harvest tested for potency and quality so I don’t understand what you’re meaning by have every batch tested?

As a farmer I consider my job solely focused on product quality at the highest sustainability possible. Those are key building blocks to a successful farm, of any kind, and I assume he’s got that handled if he thinks he can produce commercially...

I’m trying to get you all to think beyond Cannabis and into commercial farming. Where you begin to count pennies to make your profit. My company makes money off of lettuce, and cooking herb varieties. These are crops with much smaller profit margins and a lot less room for error. I’m trying to instill the fact that we can all dream about growing for a job and say oh if it was my grow I’d only use seed. But when you’ve got someone to answer to, and for lots of money, you make sure that profitability is at the top of your list... without quality and sustainability you will not achieve real profitability... I’m not saying your wrong just a step behind;)
 
Campesino said:
I'll see what I can come up with in terms of references for you.

Seeds beat clones because of vigor and root development.

Germination rates are generally very high 90%+. In fact, the need to have all stalks produce further supports seeds, because there is no mother plant that isn't going to flower.

If you buy clones pre-rooted you still aren't going to beat seeds. I actually ran a micro experiment on that in my last grow. The clone ended up producing only 12g because she couldn't possibly keep up with the vigor of the seedlings and got shaded out.

Common seed related problems that you mention are not a serious issue for commercial growers working with trusted seedbanks and stable genetics.

Clones used to be really important because of sexing as well. Feminized seeds have largely destroyed this advantage that clones once held. Growers are now confident in running seeds in large grows without sexing the plants.
Click to expand...

I can somewhat see what you mean. I already know you’re a seed pusher so there’s some biases lol and I know I will never get you to see my point (I still love you) ;) but I still stand with clones for such a small operation. If he was given a Com license that was governed by canopy I’d be right there with you! Agreed to Disagree:)
 
DankwingDuck said:
I have 37acees so the plan is once I get to that level that will be outside and that would be soil . Not to say that an indoor grow isn’t still going to take place .
Click to expand...

Honestly, if you’re allowed to grow the 72 outdoor, I’d veg indoors and then flower outdoor. I’m not sure about your light cycle year round. But here in Hawaii we run 12-14hr days so you can flower anytime of year. Just throw it outside and it starts the flower cycle
 
Most commercial facilities use clones, they use clones because they are stable phenotypes which are predictable. But also because they are faster to finish with, cutting propagation time down. They often have a room where they do strain research to find the best strains and the best phenotypes of those strains. I do not know of one commercial facility that primarily does seeds. Aurora have started with seed propagation using their own solutions to improve reliability and speed, however they still mainly clone. And i have had to research many of the top facilities for my current position. Some of these commercial facilities should be looked at for referencing.

Grewnhouse:
Aphria, elite.

Indoor:
Neta, aurora, canntrust, alpinstash, advanced grow labs, creekside cannabis, medmen (multi-tier verticle grow), tweed, the grove, silver state relief.

Many of these facilities use differerent fertigation systems, but typically the large scale facilities have massive RO systems that feed into dosing machines that inject nutrients into the solution. Most actually use some recipe of inert mediums, typically with coco coir as the base and use drain to waste drip systems.

Lighting is a whole lot more, which i could go all day on. But lets not ^.^
 
Il certainly take a look at any content you find. However, with the large scale growing myself and close friends, we can get clones going faster than seeds. And this is the common opinion among the community

Put simply, once cuttings have established roots, their stage of growth is more further along than seeds are. As you are taking a cutting which has already developed for several weeks. Its also about the maturity of the leaves which have higher photosynthetic capacity once rooted.
 
When comparing seed propagation in the same window as cutting a clone the difference ce is negligible. In other words you can cut a clone and it will root in the same time that it takes to germinate a seed and reach the same stage of growth. The vigor that is produced be seeds far outways any benigiys to cloning without a doubt. This isn’tt conjecture, science or preference, but a solid year of growing clones. Seeds give better product bottom line, and that is worth the expense of extensive testing. I have a friend that grows as a caregivegiverband he starts from seed, then he runs a second round from clone....his first harvest is always more vorgorous in terms of yield and quality....genetically a clone may be the same but that does not mean it will produce the same terpine profile or the profile....testing will always be different from one plant to another.
 
Im only arguing about propagation/growing times.

#1
"It can take a little bit more time, again, because you have to wait for the seed to germinate, etc"

#1
"Because you are starting with a plant, and you don’t have to wait for the seed to germinate, you are saving a little bit of time."

#2 Royale Queen Seeds actually trying to argue against clones, because well they are a seed bank.

"The only tangible benefit of using the cloning method for a new grower is that the plant is already farther along in development than a seed would be, and you can hope for an actual yield sooner. If time is not an issue, this may not matter to you at all. It usually only shortens the entire growing cycle by about a month."

#3
"Another reason clones can be better is that if you are going to be growing repeatedly, using clones puts you on the fast-track to harvest, because you are starting out with a plant that is further along than a seedling, cutting about a month or more off the start to finish of your grow cycle."

#4
"As far as "catching up from seed"...I'm not sure that will ever happen. A seed is simply younger than the clone and will always be "x" amount of days younger than the clone is.

The timeframe is only one advantage of cloning. "

There is staggering evidence that cloning is faster, which theory supports. I have managed to clone a cutting with 5-6 nodes, not easy but once rooted, this is the stage of growth of a 3-4 week old seedling.

There are some interesting points that would be good to discuss. Like root structure. Although seeds develop large taproot systems, this is only really beneficial in outdoor environments where more srructural support is beneficial. The fiboruous roots of cuttings is more than satisfactory for indoor/greenhouse cultivation in hydroponics.

There is also the maturity aspect i mentioned earlier about clone leaves, but there is also sexual maturity. Allowing flowering to develop sooner and quicker with clones due to sexual maturity being more advanced. In the 4th cite, there is also mention of possible quality benefits of flowers due to this sexual maturity, but i dont think there is any evidence for that, just conjecture.

So to me personally and likely the opinion of most large scale commercial farms, clones are faster.
 
Just to take a moment to update with some photos will do full update later tonight but wanted to show off my babies .
 

Attachments

  • photo52487.jpg
    photo52487.jpg
    3.1 MB · Views: 0
  • photo52488.jpg
    photo52488.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 0
Let me put it to you this way campesino and please think openly about it. Cause i know opinions can get the better of us, i am happy to swing either way. It took you 28 days to get to 7 nodes. Now if you cloned a plant at the same time as you germinated, which had say 3-4 nodes. Took 7 days to root and start vegetating. That gives it 3 weeks of main vegetation. 3 weeks on top of its already developed body. It would be further along than your plant at 28 days. As its a 2-3 week stage plant having another 3 weeks of growth. Giving it around 6 weeks of vegetation by the time 28 days has arrived.

As previously said, happy to swing if i am convinced. So show me the money honey ;)
 
A clone cut fresh will take 6-10 days to root. A seed germinated will take 6-10 days to pop from the soil. From this point in the seed grows faster than the clone in my “personal” experience, again this isn’t second hand or from a book it is personal experience. The idea idea that clones are faster fails to account for rooting time. The only advantage to running clones is that you don’t have to pay for a seed, that is it, period!!
 
The point that your plant took 3 weeks to 7 nodes is moot. Your skill as a grower would transcend to the vigor and speed of a clone. So when a clone starts vegetating after a week, it has two weeks of your quality growing skills to develop. So when you start clone and seed together, your already a few nodes ahead with two weeks to grow even more.

It stands that you have popular opinion of both personal and commercial growers against your idea of seeds. And im not trying to be argumentive but suggistive that i have cited this opinion, whether that is evidence or not. If you can find any convincing data to show otherwise i respectfully stay on my side of the fence. The cool side. Mine has lots of horses ^.^

Should start a thread though, would love to discuss more.
 
For sure, perhaps your right. But i find it unlikely due to most commercial facilities use clones. Raising clones requires a different set of techniques. I have seen clones take off after a week of rooting.

I will look into this more tonight. But again. I needs the evidence. I have tried this myself, my nearest friend swears by it, infact he grows insanely fast with clones.
 
DANGERDAN your assumption that clones propegate faster is based on nothing but congecture and grower myth, I would have expected that you of all people would demand physical evidence to support your conclusion. Commercial use of clones comes down to nothing more than cost. The expectation that a clone will perform as it’s mother is a thin argument as well, it assumes that the grower can maintain a mother plant in good health for the duration of the cutting period each and every time. Genetic drift can occur when the mother plant is not 100%. Maintaining a mother plant that can in fact pass on 100% of her genetic traits is a vastly under appreciated skill in the growing community, and not one that should be taken for granted. A commercial grower that runs clones over seed does so at the risk of being penny wise and pound foolish.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top