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CANNABIS MEDICINE: The biphasic effect

Cronk I have a bottle of CBD in the fridge, and I never even thought of taking that with the tincture!! Duh: I guess I got too high... I will definitely try taking them together.
 
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Apparently chlorophyl is water soluble and freezing the Everclear suspends what little water it contains. Freezing the material maybe also helps "lock in" the plant matter's chlorophyl.

Not a scientist but I read it on the internet so it must be true! :hard-laugh: Maybe someone with a big brain can stop by to edumacate us with knowledge.
 
Not quite. If you don't freeze your alcohol, there is some H2O in it floating around willy-nilly, just waiting for some chlorophyl to grab. If the alcohol is brought to below freezing, the water is locked up in little ice crystals and can't get its mitts on the chlorophyl, or at least it becomes more difficult.

Caveat: I've never taken a chemistry class so this might be 100% incorrect, it's just my interpretation of what I've read (again, on the internet).
 
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SWALLOWING TINCTURE VS NOT SWALLOWING TINCTURE:

I've been reading about why consumed cannabis is so much stronger than vaped or sublingual. Now I understand what happened to me the few times I put cannabis in my stomach: KA BOOM!! The liver converts THC into the metabolite 11-OH-THC, which is much more powerful:

"The levels of 11-OH-THC in your blood after smoking cannabis are only about 5% of THC levels. This is probably not enough to feel any effects from the 11-OH-THC. However, after taking cannabis orally, the average levels of 11-OH-THC vary from 25% of THC to more than 300% of THC levels, depending on which study you look at." http://profofpot.com/11-hydroxy-tetrahydrocannabinol-potency-edibles/

So this morning, I took some tincture and spit it out after holding under tongue for a good while. This does create an entirely different effect: I'm pleasantly relaxed, mildly stoned but without the intense head high I get when I swallow the tincture. This way, I can deal with the world out there if I need to, which I can't the other way. Swallowing the tincture is for staying home, being introspective, just chillin.
 
Interesting and makes sense to me, I did understand about the 2nd pass of absorption via liver (I think that's it), had no idea it was getting converted to 11-OH-THC.

I hate the idea of spitting it out as I would think there would more CBD's and other goodies we are wasting. However do understand the need to function yet be medicated enough to be able to function.

Also I would like to be able to make some up for my dogs, 1 very old with heaps of arthritis, however I am overly concerned about the highness as I dont want them freaking out, so I should probably look for a high CBD low THC strain of genetics.

What would happen if we didn't decarb prior to making the tincture? Would the body still make the same conversion to 11-OH-THC even though we purposefully are trying NOT to convert the THC to THCA,

If we can still get the same overly, crazy intense high even when NOT decarbing, what is the point of decarbing in the first place... Hmmmm, something I should look into for sure..:

Thanks for sharing ATU.. .:)
 
Sockfilter I don't think you'd get the same effect with raw cannabis, because THCa is not THC. You'll get other benefits, but you won't get high... Be the guinea pig and let us know!!!
 
So you are thinking that if we have a high THC strain that we do not decarb first, we can mitigate or lessen the chance of having a bad "high" effect?

Will add that to my "must experiment" bucket list..:)
 
So what you are saying is that if a person eats a RAW bud that has very high THC genetics, they will get NO euphoric high from it? I would disagree wholeheartedly..:( although it takes much more flower to achieve a "High", it is possible. Thus the reason for decarbing, as you mention, turning THCA into THC, the euphoric compound.

All I am mulling over is a sure fire way to know that when we make a tincture, the probability of unwanted extreme highness.

You are finding that spitting out the tincture is working better for you so you dont get the 2nd pass absorption, so in effect cancelling out the whole decarb process.

I am proposing that maybe you could get the same effect you are looking for with raw cannabis tinctures and swallowing.

Another way to look at it, is to say we only have a HIGH THC strain available, yet we want a tincture that will not produce a major head high. Maybe decarbing is not the option but running raw. On the flip side, say we only have a high CBD strain available yet we want a head high, decarbing would be a must for the tinctures in order to get what THCA is available converted to THC.

That is all I am looking at..:)
 
Wow, this is all interesting information: so you CAN get high from raw stuff; never heard that before.

Here's what I've done the last couple of days: I'm taking my high THC tincture at a much lower dose and I'm taking some CBD oil drops afterwards. I ordered some CBD slab from CBDistillery, and I intend to melt that into my tincture. I figure I will only need 10-15 drops per dose, and that the higher amount of CBD will attenuate the effects of the high THC. My life is devoted to science right now, and I'm determined to see if I can make my tincture a little tamer and a little more calming and pain-relieving. I have so much of it that I can keep some aside for the kick-ass high...
 
Cannabis would still need to be decarboxylated when taken as sublingual or ingestion, without it THC will be inactive. Inhalation is actually the fastest method of delivery to the brain, this is one reason why nicotine in cigarettes is so addictive. IV is next followed by snorting. But the speed of absorption is not directly related to the efficacy of absorption.
Except for IV, drugs have to pass through several semipermeable cell membranes. Passive, Active, and Facilitated are some processes of crossing cell membranes. These are reasons why the bioavailability of drugs are variable depending on the drug itself. Cannabis is best absorbed by the lungs. But there are ways to increase bioavailability higher than inhalation. ATU i would recommend looking into some facilitators for sublingual. I have heard some people have success with certain fat soluble substances such as sunflower oil or grapefruit extracts. But i have not looked into it much. There is also a way to increase the bioavailability of ingestion, i have heard of a company who created a consumable proprietary product that increases the bioavailability of ingestion from 6% to upwards of 85%. Also as you described the first pass absorption of ingestion changes the chemical structure of THC which could have a much different physiological effect. But sublingual bypasses the first pass effect and so does not metabolize into 11-OH-THC. Also because THC is partially a prodrug because of its metabolic transition in the liver, some people do not feel the effects when ingesting on a emtpy stomach. This is because the metbolic process happens too quickly for the effects to take place. Eating fatty based foods would help those with such problems but will delay the onset.
When i was using opiods for pain releif during my dark days of critical health, i read up on pharmacology to increase the beneficial use. For tramadol i exploited its prodrug effect by taking a small dose initially and then a larger dose one hour later. The enzymes at that point would be higher and increase its bioavailability.
For other opiods the same process would not work so i had to find other ways to enhance the effect. I wish i knew more about chemistry. Its such a complex subject but ripe with ways to abuse it.

ATU what type of effect are you searching for with recreational drugs ? Have a read of my article on the cannabinoid system, you might find it interesting.
 
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Hey Dan, I'll read your article and get back with a response tomorrow. I'm medicating right now. 👹👹👹
 
What type of effect are you after if you dont mind me asking, it sounds as though you are not wanting the head high typically experienced with THC. ?
 
Well Dan, you have repeated some of what I wrote above above: ingestion is totally different from sublingual. I think we all get that. I don't need "facilitators" for sublingual because I chose to make my tincture with everclear--not oil. An alcohol tincture will last for decades if kept cold and no worries about oil going rancid.

The tincture works just fine and as I've tried to make clear, it has different potentials depending on how I want to use it, which is what I'm learning through experimentation. I've already said that the strength and duration of the effects when I take it sublingually (a. swallowing, and b. not swallowing) are different from vaping. Much better high for me, and the pain-relieving effects are great.

"Recreational drugs": are you referring to cannabis, or something else? I see cannabis as medicine now, and I don't use that terminology to refer to it.

Now you have Paracelsus above testifying that he got high off of raw hashish and opium, and I had my own experiences getting hella high off of eating some cannabis leaves that had been very gently heated with coconut oil--nothing near the heat required for decarboxylation to occur. No one was able to explain that phenomenon: the potency of cannabis leaves at the second week of flowering was incredible. I consulted a variety of people with a lot of experience using cannabis medicinally on various forums, and no one even seemed aware of this phenomenon.

I listen to what others on this forum say, and I place a high value on someone else's personal experience. In effect, we're all our own test subjects as far as cannabis goes at this point in history.

There is no single effect I'm after, to answer your question. I use cannabis for lots of different reasons. My primary motivation for growing CBD strains right now is to attempt to find a strain/strains with good anxiolytic effects. I plan on making tinctures and comparing the effects to vaping those cbd strains.

There is so much research that remains to be done
 
Cannabis that is dried or cured has some THC that is already freed. This natural decarboxylated process happens as soon as the plant has been harvested. This is accelerated with drying and even more with heat.
So getting some effect from harvested cannabis is possible. But the potency level is fractional compared to properly decarbed cannabis. Cooking even with mild heat and with fatty subtances such as oil or butter, fascilitate absorption. So that in itself is probable cause. But at the end of the day, for absolute efficiency based on the backed up evidence of cannabis chemistry, decarboxylation through chemical process that frees THC from its acidic form is required.
 
The stuff works for me! I had to go on a cruise vacation. I could not smoke or vape. on the ship. I got a bottle of THC and used it to medicate on the ship (It was grape flavor). I pored a 4 ounce bottle into a Robitussin grape flavor cough medicine bottle (went right through security). Nothing like standing on deck with 300MG THC in my brain!.
 
Morning Cronk, that's good getting of those horrible meds, next time you smoke some strong thc, weed , just take 1-2 hits till you get used to it, an you want be peeking out the Windows, thinking the law is after you, it just takes a day or two, to get used to the most potent weed out there, I hope your plants are doing ok.
 
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