Beyond Ordinary, A Journey With Rare Genetics

[Guest]

What an interesting thread. I have a couple of questions. Is English your first language? Pardon my skepticism, are you AI?

Now that that is out of the way, I am interested in landrace cannabis. Someone in this thread opined that landrace seeds sprouted and grown outside of their native area are then not landrace plants. That makes sense to me. Your thoughts?

Do I understand your goal is to use landrace cultivars to create your own strain and breed into the plants the different characteristics you desire, while maintaining quality genetics?

Where does Kerala Gold come from? If I missed the reference above please forgive me.

Where does one buy landrace cannabis seeds? I've visited a web site or two and see pictures, plants, and read wonderful descriptions but wonder if they are real. Not that I am skeptical or anything.

Thank you!

I Live in Germany, for a very long time now and dont use english very much in daily life. When I grew up in the US my parents moved around a lot so I picked up different dialects. I have friends from different parts of the world, it's pretty mixed here, so I have to speak a little of this, a little of that, we teach each other, but I still use translators often if I get stuck. Spelling is rough because english is not phonetic. Like the words; thought, through, although, enough. Spelled the same but sound different. I edit a lot. So I may check and copy paste corrected text. Sometimes people ask me how to say something in English and I cant remember. Funny how that happens.

Your question about Landrace- it's not a landrace anymore if it's not grown in its native climate and soil. If you take a seed from a landrace and grow it in an artificial environment or in another land, it changes, adapts. So generally these are thought of as heirloom, not landrace. This Kerala for example was a landrace in the 1960s but after it left India and was cultivated in another land, and has undergone mindful intentional selection from large scale grows by a knowledgeable and experienced breeder (and the team) for some decades now, even during prohibition, it's not a landrace anymore. Actually better. It's become the best it can be over the decades of refinement. Its stabile, consistent, and perfect for breeding projects or just enjoying its uniqueness. Preserving what is now lost. Like an archive.

I use these stabile true breeding lines to make true F1-hybrids which express heterosis. These F1 hybrids often are better than both parental lines. They are the pinnacle of plant breeding, real monsters. That's why the F1 hybrid seeds at the garden shop cost more. They taste better, grow bigger, etc. And the cost of keeping the two parental lines to make the F1 hybrids takes more space, costs more. Quality isn't cheap. So yeah I enjoy the Parental lines but also like to grow monsters. Have you studied heterosis?

Kerala comes from the state Kerala in india. There is a district in Kerala called Idukki, so sometimes it's called Idukki Gold. It used to be each unique weed was called from where it came from, which made sense. Unlike the arbitrary assignment of names we see now which are meaningless.

if the genetics weren't preserved before 1970 and the drug war, forget it.
https://youtu.be/OOPEfRA2Aeo?si=RggxdY2OZoZy3Trg

 

[DabberDog]

"As for giving away seeds, my seeds, carry real value. Years of care, sweat, and preserving those pure genetics. Handing them out like nothing cheapens that. Valueless seeds? That’s the corporate mill’s game, pumping out soulless junk. If you’ve got barren hands, I’d rather my extras go to the birds. They pay with morning music, nature’s trade. Serious growers understand value. I am not here to sell seeds, I do that on a different website."

Oh, man!!! Are you the corporate mill pumping out soulful weed Dhyan ? You sell. Corporate is corporate. Give me the free seeds friends/acquaintances have put their effort into, and that I have watched get bred. Then, I get to share my growing experience with that friend/acquaintance and others who are growing the same thing. If breeding for sales is the way you make money, nifty! But I would pay for a friend's untested F-1's before buying from breeders.

Rwise, this is sounding like that sales pitch you mentioned, but a long pitch. Lots of effort. Not so obvious until now.

 

[DabberDog]

By 'barren hands' do you mean people who do not have the [resources] it takes to breed?

 

[Guest]

Let's move on. One Kerala female was hand pollinated with pollen from 2 different males in the same internode, the same day, within 15 minutes of each other. The 2 males were genetically different than the Kerala. 1 male was from the cannabis Mazar, a true breeding line which originated from the pre 19070 archive. The other male was from a Balochi heirloom (Balochistan), and its genotype has some natural variation in it, from which a 'black' type phenotype was used. Before we look at the F1 hybrid seeds, I will show the the seeds of these male parents.

​

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The Mazar seeds and Balochi heirloom seeds are confirmed by McPartland and Small in the 2020 publication. Listed as "mix use" psychoactive/oil type. Which makes sense because of their seed size.

Balochistan:

 

[dirtymike]

lets not

 

[Pyrokill]

Hey I'd buy some if it was guaranteed, authentic, and feminized....but I am not here to take any value away from something with history. I'm trying to smoke the smoke out fathers smoked. It would be cool if it was for free like the breeders on this site do. Some of the stuff you kids have crossed and sent me are amazing. Thanks for that again.

Is there a difference like they say? Is it really stronger now than the past was or is it just because we now grow vs. sending plant material across bodies of land and water vs drying it locally.

I feel that I have just as much passion with growing as the best of us but I don't have all of the skills as the master growers do.

My family has been farming and selling vegetables/ flowers since the start of photography and I have images as proof. The green thumb has been on both of my hands for years. All plants are amazing..... especially our little special ones.

It is good that you want to protect your creations and lineage. To me that shows that you are a good bot or a good pothead. Hoping for the pothead side vs the other. I double dare you to send me some seeds. If not, start popping some of those things and post pictures.

 

[Guest]

"As for giving away seeds, my seeds, carry real value. Years of care, sweat, and preserving those pure genetics. Handing them out like nothing cheapens that. Valueless seeds? That’s the corporate mill’s game, pumping out soulless junk. If you’ve got barren hands, I’d rather my extras go to the birds. They pay with morning music, nature’s trade. Serious growers understand value. I am not here to sell seeds, I do that on a different website."

Oh, man!!! Are you the corporate mill pumping out soulful weed Dhyan ? You sell. Corporate is corporate. Give me the free seeds friends/acquaintances have put their effort into, and that I have watched get bred. Then, I get to share my growing experience with that friend/acquaintance and others who are growing the same thing. If breeding for sales is the way you make money, nifty! But I would pay for a friend's untested F-1's before buying from breeders.

Rwise, this is sounding like that sales pitch you mentioned, but a long pitch. Lots of effort. Not so obvious until now.

Corporate mill? That's a tired swing and miss. In case you haven't noticed, that's what I am pushing against. I'm an private grower not some faceless seed factory. The seeds I use cost a small fortune, and they are true medical strains bred with their souls intact, not mass market bs. Because I am human, I would never withhold medicine from those who need it. Thats not a sales pitch, that's called cannabis culture. Its keeping the plants spirit alive.

These genetics have real value, it's not something to toss out like confetti. I don't expect you to understand. Anyone without knowing high quality, rare genetics and these true breeding strains of antiquity won't understand. Your free seeds for buddies and swapping stories of the grow reports that's fine. That's a completely different culture. That's why you grow what you grow, and I grow something different. We are just different. You can't expect everyone else to conform to your style only. And honestly your judgement means nothing to me.

 

[Bowhunterwoody]

I wish my hands weren't so barren.

 

[Guest]

Hey I'd buy some if it was guaranteed, authentic, and feminized....but I am not here to take any value away from something with history. I'm trying to smoke the smoke out fathers smoked. It would be cool if it was for free like the breeders on this site do. Some of the stuff you kids have crossed and sent me are amazing. Thanks for that again.

Is there a difference like they say? Is it really stronger now than the past was or is it just because we now grow vs. sending plant material across bodies of land and water vs drying it locally.

I feel that I have just as much passion with growing as the best of us but I don't have all of the skills as the master growers do.

My family has been farming and selling vegetables/ flowers since the start of photography and I have images as proof. The green thumb has been on both of my hands for years. All plants are amazing..... especially our little special ones.

It is good that you want to protect your creations and lineage. To me that shows that you are a good bot or a good pothead. Hoping for the pothead side vs the other. I double dare you to send me some seeds. If not, start popping some of those things and post pictures.

Your ancestors didnt smoke feminized amalgamation weed.

The feminization process breeds hermaphroditism IN to the genetics and that is a bad breeding practice. The commercial seed suppliers will tell you they are unfit for breeding. Dead end genetics. Good breeding practice breeds hermaphroditism OUT. If it shows up under stress tests its killed and not used. So no, I dont use the low quality junk seeds. My seeds are for the end user. Not the convenience of a grower.

Is there a difference? Between the old varieties of unique potent weed, and the 3 types of modern amalgamation weed everyone gets? Go back and read the post about the scientific study of commercial weed or watch the videos. I posted about this already so it's not necessary to repeat it here again. What is strong to you? THC content, or total cannibinoid content plus the terpene content all working together? Have you ever tried pure THC alone? I use a small glass chillum. I stuff a piece of bud in the size of the tip of my finger. I'm high or stoned for 6 or 7 hours. It works for me, what can I say? This is true medical weed, used as medicine for centuries. What pictures do you want to see? Kerala is there, and I'm trying to finish that and move on to other kinds.

 

[Guest]

I wish my hands weren't so barren.

Your hands produce nothing?

 

[DabberDog]

Oooohhhhhh... you're growing the antiquated medicinal type dope... with soul. That makes all the difference.
You are growing the same thing everyone else is growing: cannabis. Tomatoe growers grow tomatoes, whatever the variety. Some taste better than others and people have their favorites that cure their brain clouds and make them feel special because their favorite is an heirloom, but they're still tomatoes.
Didn't you say we should move on?

 

[Guest]

So these F1-hybrids seeds show us something. Check this out.

Kerala X Mazar

Now, Kerala X Balochi

Anybody notice something? Let me know why you think this happened.

 

[Rwise]

DabberD.og So you can now smell the rightin on the wall. Maybe he/she/it makes some good seed. I am watching for the links to pop in. Some nice pics, but the scratch and sniff is all worn off. Breeding is bit of a loose term, to make quality seed that you are 100% confident in the crossing. I make some of my own seed and often trade with others, IF I was serious about it it would all be done inside a closed room. Last year I had freakshow outside and a male freakshow, I never seen any dust from him, so was it my male or the one 150 feet or so that hit 12+ feet tall. I may plant some next year the offspring well tell the story of who Dad is.

 

[Guest]

So I mentioned that F1-hybrids with heterosis are the pinnacle of what we can grow. Before the next bewilderment and confusion round comes. Let's make it more clear.

If anyone is confused about the difference between an "F1-hybrid" and the counting of generations like F1, F2, and so on, I can try and explain it a different way so people can understand, and why like in your local garden center the F1 hybrid vegetable/flower seeds are more expensive than f2s and f3s or normal seeds. I use that term the same way the garden center seed peeps do. But I'm not very good at explaining these things. It needs someone else more knowledgeable and it's own thread for the question.

F1 hybrid means the cross of 2 stabile varieties to produce a new hybrid. It's not a way of counting the number of generations of offspring. It's easier to think about it using dog breeds as an example. Not every dog is a stabile "breed" of dog. So when you cross a Doberman with a Dachshund you get a hybrid from 2 stabilized breeds. (In plant breeding that's an F1-hybrid.) Or if you cross a Pit with a Korgy. It's the first hybrid created from stabile varieties/breeds.



Now if those two different F1 hybrids are crossed together, you get a big mix of Pit, Dachs, Korgy, Doberman, and there is no predictable outcome and it's going to be highly variable. That's a polyhybrid in plant breeding. A plant with 3 or more different parental lines and usually unstabile with variation. If you arent crossing 2 different stabile lines (breeds) you aren't getting a F1 hybrid, you just get "hybrid." In this sense the Kerala and Mazar are like dog breeds, and the Balochi is more like a wolf.

(Eventually, yeah that polyhybrid can be stabilized by using large grows to select from and after some years around f6, f7, f8, there comes an amount of stability.)

The vast majority of the modern mass consumer weed genetics is the polyhybrid, the amalgamation weed. It's really, really mixed and stirred up. There has been so many hybrids crossed with each other through trends, that there just isn't that much *unique weed available anymore. The reason I make true F1 hybrids is for the heterosis, the hybrid vigor that comes from crossing 2 genetically different, stabile (breeds/true breeding) varieties. (Well, I like unique weed also) They often outperform both of the parent lines. Better growth, bigger yield, more taste, higher potency. It doesn't get any better than that. Kind of like the pinnacle of gardening.

Like at the garden center, you get those F1 hybrid vegetable seeds and grow monsters. But the seeds resulting from those F1 hybrids (f2,f3,) are not really as good, so generally people don't use those f2,f3 seeds from their original F1 hybrid plants if they want the top tier plants. The f2, f3 seeds are going to cost less for a reason. So, the gardeners, they just buy more F1 hybrids. They cost more because they perform amazing, and the cost of the seed-maker keeping the 2 parent lines to cross together isn't cheap. 2 lines (breeds) takes up more space, costs more. You gotta pay more for the good stuff. That's just the way it is.

I like some polyhybrids too, don't put me in a box. There are modern hybrids that are absolutely amazing. I know a breeder that's absolutely top, and has spent many years on some high tech and seriously impressive polyhybrids that are an absolute joy to grow and the smoke is unbelievable. So I'm not narrow, I know about it.

My dog is a hybrid, and she's cool as hell.

She gets the Zoomies a lot.
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The variation in plant phenotypes makes variation in seeds as expected. Different seed sizes, patterns, and colorings, as we see with our eyes from the photos, and from our own grows. That's normal.

I am not judging size or color of a matured seed as good or bad, but in cannabis seed studies size does correlate somewhat with the seeds being from primordial/wild cannabis, to seeds that have went through selection (man or possibly nature) that produce plants with higher amounts of psychoactive THC, or plants that have been selected by man to produce large seeds on hemp varieties for food purposes or oil purposes. The biggest ugliest seed I have seen was from Chinese hemp. Of course there are exceptions, many actually. Seed size seems to correlate until you look deeper. People have been playing with it for thousands of years, it grows in various places, and has high plasticity. So we can never pin it down, just look at it. There is no certainty. Just tendencies, perhaps. As far as we know... through limited knowledge and limited brains. Etc. I'm just looking at a bunch of seeds worth looking at.

Which opens up some rather interesting aspects of Mazar. Right? ​
​

 

[Rwise]

Mine have real value as well, but I am good gifting them or trading them.

 

[DabberDog]

The sales links won't happen Rwise . That would earn banishment. So far, it's all just real good information with the mention that OP's seeds are sold at a premium, not given for free at any cost.
What happens around here is people surreptitiously PM for more information.

 

[Rwise]

The brown dog looks like one that was in Tulsa or Broken arrow rescue.

 

[DabberDog]

Go scoop up some soil and BAM! You're fertile!! Good for you!!!

 

[Guest]

Oooohhhhhh... you're growing the antiquated medicinal type dope... with soul. That makes all the difference.
You are growing the same thing everyone else is growing: cannabis. Tomatoe growers grow tomatoes, whatever the variety. Some taste better than others and people have their favorites that cure their brain clouds and make them feel special because their favorite is an heirloom, but they're still tomatoes.
Didn't you say we should move on?

You seem emotional. You really needed to get that out, didn't you? Is that your contribution to the topic for the community here?

Im growing the same? Ha! Nawwwww, not really. You are trying to toss the whole garden into the blender. Landraces, IBLs, polyhybrids.... they ain't the same thing!

Like Mazar for example, that's not a polyhybrid. It's a genotype sculpted by centuries of dirt and sun. Stabilized by farmers that knew their craft. Same thing with Kerala. Polyhybrids though? They are a mixed grab bag of variety... that's the actual blender.

corporate seed mills and their gullible easily programmed zombie growers want to convince us it's all the same. They would love for us to buy their fast food weed and keep coming back for more. I'd rather support the growers and breeders that respect the plants roots. Qualitative not quantitative.

But your antagonistic posts are telling us more about you, and less about this topic. You must be invested, heavily identified with something I have criticized, and that gives rise to a feeling where you feel like you have to defend it. Because you have made it a part of your identity. Just so you know, I and others have seen it plenty of times before. It's not unique. You aren't scoring some kind of point. It's just predictable. Expected. Boring. Why not contribute something of actual value to the topic?

 

[Ckbrew]

So these F1-hybrids seeds show us something. Check this out.

Kerala X Mazar




Now, Kerala X Balochi




Anybody notice something? Let me know why you think this happened.

RE: the graphs and charts you posted. Your assertation is that the physical dimensions of the cannabis seed determines or is an indicator of what type of use the plant that grows from that seed is best used for? And psychoactive, oil, or fiber use of that plant is indicated by the seed dimensions?