HELP! No smell, no high, extreme internode distances.

[beagle127]

I have been trying my best for quite a while now to supply myself with some much needed medicine.
Very quickly, a little background: I am 64 years old ( a veteran), and retired a few years ago from a professional position (CPA). I suffer from PTSD, depression, and insomnia. I have not slept well for several decades (yes!) unless I was heavily medicated. Believe me, that is no way to go through life. I mention that because I was not able or willing to put my license/job in jeopardy by being associated with the old "devil weed", plus I reside in a very conservative state (PA). Therefore, I do not have any connections/associations to turn to for help and guidance on growing or to obtain any cannabis.
There are 2 major problems that I have been unable to overcome in in trying to grow my own.
Problem #1 - I have obtained my seeds on multiple occasions from many well known sources, several which are recommended by GWE. This is the strange part... While I have achieved various degrees of success in growing some healthy plants along with just OK resin/stickiness, none of these plants have EVER produced any type of high. NOT EVEN A BUZZ! In fact, none of them have even produced any smell or fragrance. NONE! ( I wish I had a smell problem!). I have tried growing both indoors (400 watt MH/HPS) and out, in soil, DWC, organics, synthetic, you name it. I have tried all of these methods with the hope that something will work. Am I being paranoid when I think that perhaps the seeds are at fault? I know that I may sound that way. Have I been "blacklisted"? Seeds are about the only variable that I have not been able to account for. I do not know where to go from here.
Problem #2 - extreme internode distances. Easily 6 to 8 inches! I realize that excessive lighting distances from the bulb to the plant is the most common cause of this, and have done my best to rectify the problem, without suitable results.
Are the two problems (lack of high/smell and excessive internode distances) connected?
I sincerely apologize for the length of this narrative. I have obtained more seeds (both photoperiod and autos), and plan both an indoor and outdoor grow with the hope that something will give.
While I have expended considerable sums of money during this endeavor, the time that I have spent (unsuccessfully) is my real concern.
That is a drag.
Any input would be most appreciated. And again, I apologize for the length of this write up. Thank you.

[Beach_Town_Brit]

Hi Beagle, and welcome

Sounds like you're in quite the situation.
You seems to be doing things right from your write up, maybe some pics of your set-up and plants might help us propose some theories?

How is your temperature and humidity?
If your plants get up into the high 90s and stay there I've heard you can actually burn off the active ingredients we're all chasing, and the terpenes that give you the smell.

How do you determine harvest time on your grows?
Are you using a loupe or a microscope? What do the trichomes look like at various points in your grow, are the heads swelling, are they getting cloudy, are some of them turning amber before harvest?

Finally, how long are you curing for? I find my weed is really at its best after a full 4 week cure.

It must be really really frustrating to be growing but not getting to enjoy the subsequent high. One of your challenges seems to be the bubble you're growing in. I'm lucky to live in a legal state so I can compare my own efforts to top shelf dispensary weed on a regular ... while I've never grown buds as rock hard as some of the nugs we buy, I can at least attest to the subjective effects of my weed which are as good/strong as anything from the mid shelves up

Stretching is, as you noted, typically light distance but it can also be spectrum based I believe (too much red in veg can make for stretch). Maybe someone here with more MH/HPS experience can talk bulbs with you.

[oldjarhead100]

hey beagle welcome yes we really need more info and pics also have you read Nebulas grow tutorials . I also suffer from ptsd and lots of other things so I feel for you brother . I was in 76-80 so I missed the nam WELCOME HOME AND A JOB WELL done. had a lot of friends who were there. I was exposed to AO while in and it caused me to get newrophy .after years of pain and pain killers I figued out that half the pain was being caused by a real sensitivity to temp changes so now I wear knee high sock(quite the fashion statement lol) I told you this in case you had simerler problems. I read this forum every day and you will find the help you need . Beach town had some great questions so give us the info so we can help. looking forward to hearing from you

[NebulaHaze]

I'm sorry to hear you're having this problem Do you have any pictures of your plants and buds right before harvest? I wonder if the buds possibly got taken down too early, as that will cause them not to have any potency.

You mention you have a 400W MH/HPS. There's no reason you should be getting such big spaces between nodes under a powerful light like that! Lack of light causes big spaces between nodes, and could also cause lack of smell and potency. Is it possible you need a new bulb (they generally are only at 100% for 2-3 grows)? Is it possible to post a picture of your setup, so we can see if we notice anything that seems odd or out of place?

Lastly, you aren't noticing any smell in the flowering stage while the buds are forming? If so, that's definitely a sign that something is wrong. Even the lowest-smell plant should still have some smell coming from the buds.

If the problems with potency and smell are happening consistently even with known good genetics, then the good news is there's something happening during the growing process that's preventing your buds from coming out the way you want. If so, we'll likely be able to figure it out! Cannabis plants are complex but straightforward. At the very least, we'll be able to help guide you to success during your next grow!

[Weed Pharma]

Are these all sativa dominant plants?

[Flockshot]

As a 68 year old vet myself, I understand your need. My insomnia was fixed in one day with this stuff so I believe it will help you too, for that, and other issues.

First of all, do not give up. I am struggling to get it all right myself, but I will get it.

There is a laundry list of things to consider and maintain during the grow.

I think taking some time to read the following will help. You are not a new grower, but I am confident you will find things in this article by NubulaHaze that are different from your growing conditions.

http://www.growweedeasy.com/perfect-growing-environment

Seeds have been your only variable, so seeds is not the problem because you are getting consistent results different seeds.

My recommendation (and I am no expert) would be to address your environment first. Temp, humidity, air circulation, co2 in growing location, air exchange. ( I do not recommend supplementing co2, just making sure that there is enough through air exchange).

The experts here love pictures, so pics will help them, help you.

Welcome.

[Marley]

I'm just here to thank you vets for your service. Thank you! I know the toll it can take on you.

[Sonnyhad]

I have been trying my best for quite a while now to supply myself with some much needed medicine.
Very quickly, a little background: I am 64 years old ( a veteran), and retired a few years ago from a professional position (CPA). I suffer from PTSD, depression, and insomnia. I have not slept well for several decades (yes!) unless I was heavily medicated. Believe me, that is no way to go through life. I mention that because I was not able or willing to put my license/job in jeopardy by being associated with the old "devil weed", plus I reside in a very conservative state (PA). Therefore, I do not have any connections/associations to turn to for help and guidance on growing or to obtain any cannabis.
There are 2 major problems that I have been unable to overcome in in trying to grow my own.
Problem #1 - I have obtained my seeds on multiple occasions from many well known sources, several which are recommended by GWE. This is the strange part... While I have achieved various degrees of success in growing some healthy plants along with just OK resin/stickiness, none of these plants have EVER produced any type of high. NOT EVEN A BUZZ! In fact, none of them have even produced any smell or fragrance. NONE! ( I wish I had a smell problem!). I have tried growing both indoors (400 watt MH/HPS) and out, in soil, DWC, organics, synthetic, you name it. I have tried all of these methods with the hope that something will work. Am I being paranoid when I think that perhaps the seeds are at fault? I know that I may sound that way. Have I been "blacklisted"? Seeds are about the only variable that I have not been able to account for. I do not know where to go from here.
Problem #2 - extreme internode distances. Easily 6 to 8 inches! I realize that excessive lighting distances from the bulb to the plant is the most common cause of this, and have done my best to rectify the problem, without suitable results.
Are the two problems (lack of high/smell and excessive internode distances) connected?
I sincerely apologize for the length of this narrative. I have obtained more seeds (both photoperiod and autos), and plan both an indoor and outdoor grow with the hope that something will give.
While I have expended considerable sums of money during this endeavor, the time that I have spent (unsuccessfully) is my real concern.
That is a drag.
Any input would be most appreciated. And again, I apologize for the length of this write up. Thank you.

Hi Beagle, I am also a 64 year old vet. Vietnam Vet. And I too gave up the week for my career and now that its done, I started growing. I have not had the problem you are facing, and the medicine works well. Hopefully you get some answers on here to help you get your grow right!

[CCisme]

I hope they can figure out whats going on!

[Marley]

You don't have to get shot at to be a vet worthy of thanks. Any time spent in any of the branches is service to your country and I thank you for it. Best of luck with your grow, I'll be following it with high hopes for sure.

[HobbyGardener]

Hi Beagle, allow me to jump in here please!

First of all, you're not alone, definitely not on this journey, but also in your everyday life. You'll do just fine, you'll see! And, sweet dogs you have there, I have two myself and they are the best thing ever!
Anyway, let me try answer your post line by line if I can. I'm a newbie when it comes to growing, I'm about to finish my second grow with lovely results, and the third one is also on its way. (Just trying to reassure you that i have a slight idea about it even though there are people here on this forum who could smoke me in a pipe any day!). I'll try to touch some basic things, just in case they slipped off your mind.

- I agree with you that it's the best thing to start afresh, keep posting as you go and receive feedback and adjust things if needed, on time. Still, it would be highly interesting to find out what went wrong with your previous tries...!!!
- I know this is probably a stupid question, but since no one mentioned it:
* Did (do) you have your light connected to a timer, and the timer set properly for the current stage of growth?
- Lights should be set up to 18 hours of light and 6 of darkness during the first 6-8 weeks of growth, which is the vegging period. (There are a few other schedules, ie 16/8, or even 24/0, but lets agree on 18/6, ok?)
- Also light should be hanging above the plants in such a way that it's easy for you to adjust the height as needed (generally you'll drop it low at start and lift up higher as the plants grow). Please let others suggest the correct distance from plant for your light, as I'm using LED lights and have no experience with MH/HPS. (but I read somewhere that MH is used for vegging, and HPS for flowering).

- AFTER the initial vegging period (6-8 weeks) the lighting schedule must be set up to 12 hours of light and 12 of TOTAL DARKNESS. This is very important, as any disturbance on this account will most likely screw up your bud production. Btw, this 12/12 schedule might need to be held for anywhere between 8 and 12 weeks, depending on strain. So, all up, your indoor grow might take between 3.5-5 months.

- Please use the 5 gallon fabric pots in connection with a mix of coco and perlite. At this very moment I'm growing in pure coco, and i think next time I'll add perlite, because I just feel the pure coco keeps moisture for too long, whereas with added perlite it might drain a tad faster, allowing roots in the center of the pot more access to air.
- You will be controlling the vertical growth of your plants with LIGHT, BASIC PLANT TRAINING and TIMING! (Once they are tall enough, you'll switch them to 12/12, that is where they do a final stretch for 2-3 weeks but then stop growing up).

- I'm assuming you know how to germinate your seeds, grow them in a small pot, replant after a week or two into a 1-2 gallon pot, let grow for another couple weeks, then replant in their final 5 gallon pot.

- Because this is your first (hopefully successful) grow, I suggest you start with 4-6 plants in your tent. Of course you can go less or more, but i feel it's a good idea to be able to reach to each plant with ease. Also with some basic plant training and care, they will grow enough to fill out your tent, no dramas. (some people grow only 1-2 plants in a 4x4 tent, while others may grow 25 plants in a "SeaOfGreen").

- Did you buy feminized seeds, or regular?
- You should account for the possibility that maybe some seeds will produce male plants, and those are pretty much useless for you, so you will destroy them as soon as you recognize them.
Unfortunately, this (recognizing) happens AFTER you switch lights to 12/12. Otherwise your plants will have some "cuddling time" with each other, and all you'll get will be plenty of seeds, but no (or maybe very little) smokable buds.

I hope this helps a little. Regarding your outdoor grow, all I can say is I see people start growing their plants indoors and let them grow strong, then they replant outdoors once the temps are right. Please let others help you there, I'm an indoor only grower.

Thumbs up and grow on!

PS.: Guys please correct me if I wrote crap anywhere!

[NebulaHaze]

I will be going with coco coir and Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow for coco. I like the idea that this will provide a good bit of the benefits of growing hydroponically with synthetics while lessening the problems of higher temperatures associated with deep water culture (I live in an older home without central air).

I think you will love coco because of the benefits you've listed, and that's a really popular cannabis nutrient system! Have you already gotten supplies to test the pH? That will be crucially important in coco as far as maximizing growth rates and preventing nutrient deficiencies. Bottles of PH Up and PH Down are probably the two best supplements there are for growing cannabis in coco

I will be using fabric smart pots, and have both 3 and 5 gallon sizes. I am kind of leaning toward the 3 gallon size, as I do not want to deal with excessive vertical growth. Yes/No? I have had that problem in the past, and did not know how to deal with it. It did not end well. My grow space will be 4ft by 4ft. How many plants do you recommend for either 3 or the 5 gallon pots?Also, I know that GWE recommends a mix of 30% or so of perlite as opposed to 100% coco coir. I would appreciate hearing opinions/experiences in this regard.

Fabric pots are amazing for fast growth rates. I've grown in 2-gallon smart pots before and gotten good results, however I found that the containers dried out incredibly fast (since they get air from the sides) which means I found myself watering daily (or even more often) by the end of the grow to keep up with my plants since they were drinking so much, and these were small 1 foot tall plants! Using 3-gallon containers will definitely be better than the 2-gallon pots, but personally I think the 5-gallon containers would be a really great choice especially in such a big space! With the smart pots, the plants don't really get rootbound as long as you're giving them plenty of water, so keeping the plants in smaller smart pots isn't going to limit their growth as much. Small pots are most effective at limiting growth for plants in soil and in hard-side containers, since they're more likely to get rootbound (roots get wrapped all around the edges of the pot and the plant). The best way to control growth and shape is to use training / bending, which we'll definitely show you when it comes time to that after your plant has growth a few sets of leaves!

I wrote a little about the optimum number of plants to grow if you're interested! For a 4'x4' I think 4 plants is a good manageable number of plants since each plant gets 1'x'1 to themselves! That lets you get good size plants but still a manageable number and you'll be able to still reach the ones in the back!

What size grow light do you plan on using?