Help, few bagseed grows under belt, now trying to dial in perpetuial

[DnkTnk]

I've come a far way thanks to the GWE site so hoping this forum can help me get completely situated with a perpetuial set up. Currently I have a small veg tent w/ T5 and 3'x3' led bloom tent with all the bells and whistles. I use 3 gallon smart pots with FF soil mix of happy frog and ocean forest. Which brings me to my first question... I also have the General Organics line of nutrients, how often (if at all) should I be nutrient feeding while using the Fox farms soil mix? I use RO water so I add CaMg in small amounts but I'm worries about causing a nute burn or lockout situation if I go full bore with the veg and bloom nutes in that soil.

Next, I was a little naive going into the perpetuial mode and figured it'd be simple as long as I had seperate veg and bloom areas. My problem is that I loaded the bloom tent with four girls at the same time so I don't have space to move any vegging plants into the bloom room until the girls in there finish, and they'll all finish around the same time. Now I'll have too long of a lull between rounds since I didn't stagger the timing up front. My plan to offset this issue was to set up a 3rd area as a seedling/clone station to get the 3rd round a jump start before room opens up in the veg tent. The last quandary Ive discovered is with plant training to maximize yields. I used Nebula's mainline technique for the girls that 1st went into the bloom room, and used the original tops taken off this girls to reload the veg tent. I didn't go full manifold with the clones thou and only topped them once above 5th node. They've bushed out and I use defoliation but I'm worried the structure is kinda sloppy compared to a true manifold and I'm left not sure if I should be removing any growth tips before flipping to flower to ensure each kola gets fat without a lot larf underneath. I'm a little confused here because I've read that some growers who use defoliation never remove any growth tip yet others swear by doing some kind of lollipoping.

I may move towards trying to maximize bloom space with begging out a single plant to fill up the room but figured I'd cycle a few thru in the room together first. So any pointers, comments, insight, compliments, criticisms are much appreciated.

[Karlee]

Hi Dnk
I don't go dirt so those nutrients I can't answer . I just wanted to say you have all the info to grow a good crop but no good solid plan to keep you sane. The training is very important if the plants did what they wanted your tent wouldn't stop them. Set a goal for how much you want off each plant and work from that point. Having the right set-up for you means to know veg so many weeks , main room to harvest the plants , they don't wait for you and you could just keep building one more room forever.
Have fun with it and welcome to the forum!

[kingfish]

If you doing a perpetual grow in limited space, it is all in the timing. Especially if you're going to train them. If you have seeds that require 8-9 week flowering. Figure it will take you that amount of time to veg and go through the training process. 12/12 them and start the next gen. By the time they are ready for harvest the new gen is ready for 12/12. You can keep this up for ever. You will have more weed then you and your buddies can ever smoke.

[DnkTnk]

Thanks for the input. I was definitely too naive about how important the timing is going into perpetuial mode and started too many girls at once Bc I wanted to fill my space up right away. Figured it'd be straight forward w/ two rooms but I didn't have the experience needed yet to do the life stages timeline math in my head. I'm running Nirvanas Jock H and the white fem mix pack (just Papaya and White Widow for now).

[DnkTnk]

... so just trying to streamline as much as possible. I also am going to attempt to keep the strains from white fem mix pack alive since you only get one of each from Nirvana, which complicates the limited space factor I'm dealing with. I plan to pop Ice and BlackJack too with he hope that the harvest order can be established where I finish a different strain one after the other. I'll need to cycle in the seedlings of Ice and BlackJack w/ the clones I take of Jock H, Wht Widow and Papaya. Keeping the Jock strain running isn't as important bc I have spare beans of that but of the two I popped, one pheno seems much better than the other so thinking it'd be in my best intrest to take a cut of that one too.

[DnkTnk]

I am still curious if the Fox Farms soil I use (mix of happy frog, ocean forest and xtra perlite) has enough to it that using organic liquid nutes would not be uneccesary or even harmful if used at all, or..... If the soil on its own gets depleted enough where plants benefit from added nutes at certain life stages?? My own conclusions lean towards not using any added nutes (bc I've burned and lockout plants in the past doing so). My experience is limited though so I'm not sure if the plants would benefit significantly or not if given very small amounts of organic nutes. I also assumed that since I use RO water that I need to add at least some CaMg when watering to prevent a calcium def but ive only added the CaMg infrequently in small amounts in fear that using any more may cause a lockout situation.

As to the best way to train plants in a perpetual set up, I believe there is enough veg time to do a real manifold structure. The problem is Im past the point where I can do that on my round that's vegging now. They were cuts taken from the tops when I manifolded the original/1st round. I topped them above 5th/6th node only and all have bushed out to have a few to many main kolas which I had then used lst to keep flat. They have about 3 to 4 weeks left before the bloom room opens any space up. To this point they have been mildly defoliated here and there so that there are new growth tips at least starting on every single fan leaf node/junction. I worry that some of these tips will form really long side branchs off the bottom of main kolas and I don't want the mains losing any energy to what will only amount to larf. So I am considering lollipoping this 2nd round before flipping them to 12/12 so there wouldn't be long side branches off the mains. Not sure if all that is necessary or if at a certain point it's best to just let the plant do its thing and bud out on its own w/ two LED panels over it. ??

[NebulaHaze]

With Fox Farm soil, the nutrients last a few weeks but after that you usually want to supplement with extra nutrients or your plant may use up most of it. Some growers keep transplanting to bigger pots with fresh soil instead of giving more nutrients. But either way I highly recommend supplementing with extra nutrients in the flowering stage because your plants need a lot of phosphorus and potassium. The Fox Farm nutrient trio is a great choice to use with their soil. Just go really easy on the Tiger Bloom to avoid burning your plants. It's the "strongest" part of the trio

It sounds like you've got a plan for training your plants now, but definitely feel free to post some pics of your plants for a second opinion!

[DnkTnk]

[Tika]

I support perpetual
Due to GWE
Enjoy

[DnkTnk]

Thanks Nebula!!! Here are some pics of what I'm working with, made possible by all the knowledge shared on GWE. I have the GH GoBox nutes currently but will restock with fox farms to use with their soil.

[DnkTnk]

I'm hoping the girls in bloom really fill out and fatten up. I've had decent results w/ my first few grows but never really got fat flowers. These are about halfway thru 12/12 and other then CaMg have been fed only twice so far once with GH BioThrive Bloom after which they got very slight tip burn. I didn't feed for a couple weeks after that but just gave them a tad of GH BloomBooster yesterday and noticed no ill effects yet. Tent environment is perfect, I have a fan/filter finally after going w/o thru first couple grows Bc I use LEDs but w/o ventilation I was having to open tent to keep temps/humidity down. Those first couple harvests suffered towards the end of bloom bc of the high temps and humidity so I'm hoping Ive remedied that issue and the current girls get obese. After spending way too much money and effort in securing a personal supply for way too long, I'm getting excited to soon be not only self reliant but stocked w/ better buds then Id be able to buy locally. I've gained so much knowledge after coming into this with no experince and now a hobby is becoming a passion. I live in a province that has medical laws in place but not yet up and functioning. They've decriminalization small possession but nothing yet on books for rec. But it's just a matter of time before that changes hopefully. Id love to get a foot into the industry before it arrives... me and everyone else.

[DnkTnk]

[Karlee]

They look pretty and it makes me want to start training mine, that is my favorite thing with the plants. With the right exhaust it won't be hot ever, just eats more power but helps tons!

[NebulaHaze]

They look really green and healthy, which is a great sign! Having healthy plants is the best thing you can do for yields! If your plants are healthy (like they are) and buds aren't fattening up, that usually means they're not getting enough light. You mentioned you're using an LED grow light, do you know the model and/or how many watts of electricity it pulls out the wall? How far is it from your plants?

I wrote a little article about increasing yields if you're interested in some ideas It definitely seems like you're already on the right track!

[DnkTnk]

I have two Apollo Horticulture 300W panels in the 3x3 bloom tent. I believe the actual draw is like 160w each. I knew they weren't top of the line but research indicated they'd do the job. One panel is a year old the other like 6 months. I got two to be safe I had enough light. I didn't want to break the bank going in but def plan to upgrade once they start failing. I have the panels up against the 6' ceiling basically bc as plants got tall in the past I noticed light burn and fox tailing. Which also could've been a reason why buds didn't fatten in the past. These girls now are on day 35 as of tomorrow so I got a better feeling with this round. Also first round with fan/filter set up in tent. I do have two 45w Apollo screw in LED's I was considering to use as side lighting to finish with this bloom but that means Id have to leave the tent open to hve room to shine the side lights from a safe distance.

[DnkTnk]

Thank you for the input Nebula. I probably can't even quantify all the time your website has saved me in these endeavors.

[NebulaHaze]

Just curious, have you ever considered getting a small HPS grow light? If your current lights are 160W each, they're using 320W in total, which is more electricity than a 250W HPS. An HPS doesn't put out more total heat watt-for-watt than LEDs. A 250W HPS would actually put out less heat overall than if you had both your 160W lights on, and if you put it inside a hood it contains the heat away from the plants even if you don't hook it up to a fan. I'm probably biased because I use one, here's my setup if you're interested You can expect 4-9 ounces on average, I've been getting 6-7 ounces every time, and the buds are always dense and fat! I think I could get my yields up a little more if I grew more than one plant at a time

[DnkTnk]

Honestly I hadn't ever considered an hps. Originally I never planned for two led panels and didn't think Id ever need a exhaust fan. But you're right it should be considered at this point since my set up has changed to accommodate one. I was always turned off by the heat hps's put off and since I have zero experience with one, didn't really think about the 250w being much cooler than bigger bulbs. Part of why I never considered them is because I think of them as a greater fire hazard than LED's. I live alone with animals though and I'm gone a lot so that fear resides. Safety first and all. But I'm beginning to understand those fears aren't really substantiated in the recommendation youve given me. I'll see how these girls finish and reassess my set up. Thanks again!

[DnkTnk]

So I'm getting closer to harvest, about 7 weeks in to this point. I think I should've done some lollipoping to increase size of main kolas, live and learn for next time. White widow and Jock Horror are fattening up, I wonder how much more had I cleaned up the larf underneath. Papaya is full of tri's but wasn't getting the girth of the other girls, my hypothesis is that Papaya is so much shorter it wasn't getting as much light as the others so I propped her up to sit taller and am providing about 5 hours a day of supplemental led side lighting. Seriously considering a 250w hps for xmas but Gonna see if I can dial in the LED set up a little tighter 1st and see if I can reach those GWE trophy pic yields before making the switch...