1st time grower looking to see how I'm doing

[JimH]

This is my 1st ever grow and I think she is doing great but I have nothing to compare to so looking to see what you guys think? It's a GG4 auto on day 73 since sprouting and I was pleasantly surprised that she outgrew the 2x2x4 tent I started her in and had to get a 3x3x6 cause she wasn't supposed to get over 3 feet and it's over 4 I'm wondering what I can expect yield wise so hoping you guys may have some guesses?

3 gallon pot
Fox farm happy frog and ocean forest mix
Fox farm nutes Grow big, Big bloom, Tiger bloom and Cal Mag
Spiderfarmer sf1000 evo & added a cheap Growstar light stand when I put her in the bigger tent

[Rootsruler]

Well done Sir! Plant looks healthy and flowers look like they're on track.

Day 73 means week 6 going into 7 since sprouting. Post up some closeups of the flowers themselves so that we can see how close they are to harvest but my guess is you have at least another 4 weeks.

Most autos tend to yield around 2 - 3 ozs of dry herb depending on cultivar and grower skill. My guess is 3ozs but it could go 4.

I suggest you grow a feminized photo period seed on your next run. Autos have a finite grow limit. Photo periods grow as large as you want them before you flower them. Bigger plant bigger flowers.

Good Luck!

[Bluey]

You have one very healthy and well grown girl there. Congrats

Only issue I see is you don't have enough light to bring out its best. Ideally two of those lights would be ok..not great but ok.

The give away re light is its height and its internodal spacing. Giving it the correct light levels may have kept it closer to 3 foot tall and closed up the node spacing resulting in more even light to the whole plant.

Yields I am not sure as you still have some way to go but I'd be guessing maybe 3oz dry weight.

[JimH]

Thanks for your input I really appreciate it Here is a little closer look at the flowers and have started a feminized photoperiod you can see it in the solo cup in this picture it's Dreamsicle

[JimH]

Some closer shots of the flowers

[Rootsruler]

Thanks for your input I really appreciate it Here is a little closer look at the flowers and have started a feminized photoperiod you can see it in the solo cup in this picture it's Dreamsicle

Excellent! Here's a primer on watering practices, media and pot size choice. I am not the author. This post answered a lot of questions I had. Hopefully they'll answer a lot of yours.

This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.

First I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.

PERCHED WATER TABLE

What is it?

The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel eachother out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers issues with watering practices especially in soil grows.

WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION

CAPILLARY action is is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.

In short adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)

Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.

So as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and at the point gravity and these properties cancel eachother out is the perched water table.

This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". Which means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.

Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.

DIFFERENT MEDIA

Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.

The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.

By adding things like perlite or vermiculite (while vermiculite is good at absorbing water it also improves drainage so its helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throught the media while increasing drainage due to its size) we can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and inturn the height of the perched water table.

Media's like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.

Adding thing like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because as I said the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.

Basically the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.

If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.

If you feel you have over watered or your perched water table height is to high you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.

POT SIZE

I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.

I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.

You also don't want a pot that's to tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.

Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see sooo often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DRIVES ME NUTS. Why because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though tap roots grow straight down so we to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.

It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in o2. If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.


Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So again it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weekss depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it become much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so its less likely to over water and why uppotting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.

POT MATERIAL

Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.

This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the lager the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in say fabric pots. This imo has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for o2 levels in the root zone that I feel are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.

It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of o2 and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich o2 and water. Hydro similar with slightly less o2, soiless media's such as coco and I would possible include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and its not hard to see the difference in thier air holding capacity in that order. And the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expell co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY

The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.

The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs

The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.

Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.

The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.

First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will gives my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Mr.Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well it's 2 fold because of the cool temps the viscosity (measument of flow rate) of the sap will decrease so its harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher (but aqua you just said it slows absorption) well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symtom many refer to overwatering which againnos lack of o2. Now take a cold rootzone where the plants slow water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recover is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.

So get your pots up off the floor

WET AND DRY CYCLES

in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symtoms of over watering and help with o2 levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media's or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of o2 quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gage watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.

This is much less of an issue when using soiless like coco or peat/perlite.

[Allenpro]

I agree that is not enough light to really do the job on that and you have done so well so far. If you look at the PPFD map you can tell they exaggerate on the foot print just a bit. So at 12 inches above the plant your close to frying the top buds and the ones 18 inches below will be lacking. Buds dont share energy. One option that may work would be to harvest in stages but that has never gone as well as I would like it to for me.
Great job so far, and I can say your doing about 1000% better than my first, second & third grow.

[Radeon]

Nice going for first go bro!

I grew GG#4 photos in a 2x4. I found out the hard way you have to top and lst them. Flip no later than the 12" mark. Even at 12" with her growth rate she'll be close to the top by the time she's done stretching even with lst. Now my Girl Scout Cookies Extremes, they had more horizontal growth than vertical so they were easier to manage. Didn't even have to lst them, just topped at 12", 6th node.

And yes, you need more light.

[JimH]

So a couple people that have been helping a long the way seem to think she still has 3 to 4 weeks left so I'm wondering what you all think she sprouted 80 days ago and when I planted her I thought she would be done by my birthday which was yesterday

[Allenpro]

I would agree with that, I see a lot of white pistil's still and they should be orange and all dried out, Trichomes on the buds tell the full story though. Been growing for a while and on a few of these sites and never once heard anyone complain about letting their weed go too long

[Rootsruler]

Day 80. Most autos seem to like to start flowering at end of week 4. 30 days. That means your plants been flowering for around 50 days. That would land you around week 7 going into 8. Most autos I've seen seem to finish around week 10 - 11. I'd say 2 -3 weeks. Let them swell up a bit more.

Allenpro is right. The white pistils haven't matured enough yet.

[JimH]

Cool thanks and definitely not complaining just try to understand what's going on cause like I said I was under the impression that it would have been done by now. Here is a couple magnified pics taken yesterday 6/23

[Allenpro]

One of the lessons you learn from your first grow is the breeders tend to under estimate the time to harvest, especially with autos, and the plants cant read a calendar, lol

[JimH]

Yeah I'm definitely learning that and maybe you can help me out with another issue? It's been very hot and humid up here in northeastern US temps have been high 90s with high humidity making it feel like 105 -108 outside and even with my AC in the house set at 67 I'm having a hard time keeping the humidity down I have a dehumidifier and a heater going in the tent so I can raise the temp more but not sure that's a good idea but right now I have the temp set to 83 and I'm only able to get the humidity down to 63% so should I raise the temps higher to bring the humidity lower? Here is a current reading of conditions in the tent

[Rootsruler]

I like to run my grows hotter than most. I try and average around 80° with a range of 75° - 85°. Any time the environmentals fall out of that range I will manually retweek the whole setup so that they fall within that range. I don't see any real danger of bud rot at the humidity that you are at but, as Bluey mentioned, you really want to keep it around 55%-50%.

I was just reading an article about how keeping low humidity in the early stages of plant growth will promote more root growth. I've always been one to run my early stage growth at higher humidity but I'm going to change that up this run and run the tent at a 55% to begin with and 40% - 45% as I get into late flower.

[Bluey]

Lower humidity during flower may improve the quality of the bud with more terps and THC

[Allenpro]

In flower I run mine at 75-85 during the day and done to 65 when the lights go out.

[JimH]

Finally got the heat and humidity under control and man is she looking and smelling amazing thanks for all the help