Photone App

[No3odiesShad0w]

So I've been on a bit of an education kick. Just trying to learn about light science and LEDs and the different colors and sizes. One of the light testing channels on YouTube MIGRO channel, recommended this app called Photone. It's basically an app that uses your front facing camera to calculate your PAR, your DLI based on 12,18 or 24 hours, it does lux readings and temperature of the lights in Kelvin. I wanted to know if anyone else has tried this app. I know it works very well with the apple iphone camera. I have the Samsung Galaxy S23 ultra. It's got a beast of a good camera and same sensors as the iphone.

I measured the PAR and I'm getting an average of about 900ish and when I checked the DLI I got about 60 for 18hrs. Different numbers than I got using a lux meter and conversations to get the DLI number. Seems a bit high since I'm not using CO2 but the plants seem to be handling it well enough. I'll take some pictures of readings tonight to show y'all some examples.

My thoughts are, if this app is accurate, this could be a huge game changer for a lot of ppl to get everything dialed into that sweet spot.

[No3odiesShad0w]

I'm not even running the lights at 100%. The spider farmer in running at 80% and the viparspectra @ 75%

[quirk]

Game changer indeed. Between the Photone app and the vpd.com chart and a lot of reading, my plants have never been happier. Being able to keep my plants in the sweet spot as far as PAR and VPD is going to result in better quality, yields and it's a piece of cake once you understand how the numbers relate to each other during the plants life cycle.

[No3odiesShad0w]

I agree. It's stuff I never paid attention to in the past but started to recently and it shows in the plants growth

[90Gizmo]

Did you calibrate it?

I like using Photone instead of "height" charts because running lights at 80 to 85% helps keep heat down and helps lights last longer. Anyway, I usually search before I ask "Does anyone..." type questions. You'll find some people use it but not many. The best part I like using vpd is that I can trade heat for humidity and don't have to run one temperature and one humidity.

[No3odiesShad0w]

Dimming the LEDs is precisely why I started messing with light meters. I found height charts didn't match my environment because I don't grow in a highly reflective tent. So the amount of light bouncing around and back into the sensor is less than it would be in a tent. Using the lux meter and now the Photone app is really helping me dial everything in.

[changeofpace2014]

Gizmo - I use a little space heater on a PID to control the RH..after watching the hydrometer reading with respect to the temp I can set the pid target...There is a little oscillation with it but it can be controlled to acceptable numbers or at least for me....Adjustments are required from time to time with drastic outside weather swing...Central heat and air help alot and my crawl has a return and duct s.

[90Gizmo]

changeofpace2014 you've hit the nail on the head. I can't always lower humidity but it's pretty easy (and less expensive) to raise the temperature.

[Bluey]

I use 2 mobile apps on 2 phones adjusted to reflect the known light output of my lights at a defined height. This was taken from independent reviews using decent light meters. I have 2 lights so this makes it a bit more work to get it right.

The sensor on your phone is quite rudimentary and doesn't make calculations correctly like a proper meter would so there will always be an error, even more so when you have side lighting, but you should be able to achieve an accuracy of better than 10% which is good enough if you are not pushing limits

[No3odiesShad0w]

A 10% discrepancy I can live with. I try to have an even canopy but some sites will be higher than others, thus getting higher amounts of light or lower amounts for the lower bud sites. So it's been going to be exact, I just want to prevent light burn and light stress so I don't get Hermies.

[Orggrwr]

Just downloaded the app and have been playing with it for the last hour. LOVE IT. Need to do a lot more reading on exactly what the numbers mean and how they relate but I think this is really going to help my growing

[Bluey]

With the app no reason why you cannot avoid light burn.
The first clue is of course light stress and if you can identify what your genetics do behaviour wise under intense light then you can best tune it that way.
It can be a difficult balance when you are in late flower balancing the light the lower buds get relative to the tops of the highest buds.
My last grow I put up with some minor regrowth on the top 4 or so buds in an effort to get sufficient light to the lower buds.

[No3odiesShad0w]

Only time I had light burn is when I did it intentionally.... Out of curiosity. They burned but also shot out bananas everywhere. It was interesting. The exciting this about this app is the law of minimum. If you get everything dialed in, you can get those lights really close without adverse effects.

[Smallgrow]

I use the photone app with my Iphone. It seems to work well enough although I have no way to test it
I think Shane at Migro that said the iPhones are appeared to be “more” accurate as they use a limited number of different cameras, as compared to the many manufactures who make phones for the android OS

[90Gizmo]

Shane reviews it on Android too and any of them, once calibrated, are within a few point of the Apogee sensor except for infrared. Calibration is super easy. Probably takes 30 seconds the second time you do it. First time maybe a few minutes to figure out which of the two methods you're going to do.

[No3odiesShad0w]

[No3odiesShad0w]

I raised the lights a bit and adjusted the dimmers. I feel a bit better about where I'm at.... Though in curious about CO2 levels since I do grow mushrooms in this room too. I could be getting a CO2 boost and I don't even realize it. Probably why they've been handling the extra light without much issue..... Minus the soil acidity. 😅

[MagicMike66]

That’s the next few hours sorted for me, thanks!

[quirk]

I like that it gives autoflower parameters. In fact I might develop an autotone app.

[grouchyoldman]

Greetings GWE, just a flyby visit but this topic caught my eye.

I've been using Photone for a couple of years now with great results. Here's a couple of tips:

- An easy way to calibrate Photone is to compare it to the PPFD map included with most modern LED lights. If Migro has reviewed your light you can use their map for this purpose. Just set your Photone camera on the floor, adjust the height of your light to whichever map you are using then move the phone under the light to compare your readings with the PPFD map. I use ViparSpectra XS-series lights and my Photone test readings matched the published PPFD maps that came with the lights almost perfectly. I can even compare the readings after a year of use and see how much the intensity has fallen off (Not much!).

- Here's a basic set of guidelines for PPFD ranges at various stages of growth.
Seedlings, youngsters: 100 - 300 PPFD
Veg Cycle: 300 - 600 PPFD
Flowering 600 - 900+ depending on the strain and with careful monitoring since these lights are strong enough to cause problems if you overdo it. I've gone as high as 1400 ppfd and some plants loved it. Ramp up slowly and carefully.

- Then there's the tradeoff between light height and intensity adjustments. My experience has been a preference for keeping the light farther from the plant and turning the intensity up to the appropriate PPFD level during veg, then using the opposite approach during flower (lower the light & reduce the intensity to get the desired PPFD at bud level). This works best with a horizontal canopy.

-Finally, in the end, it's all about DLI (Daily Light Integral)! The total amount of photons flooding your plant each day will be the key to success as it best captures all the variables. Happily Photone measures DLI as one of the freebie selections. DLI levels are very strain-specific, so monitor and adjust as you see how your plants respond. DLI between 20 - 40 is a useful starting point, increasing over that range as your approach late flower. I've read you can go higher if you are using CO2 in the tent.

I hope this is useful.

-Grouchy

[SoOrbudgal]

Yo and good to see ya grouchyoldman thanks for the update sounds like you have it tuned in

[90Gizmo]

Yes. That's exactly what I did to verify the ppfd map on my "cheap" 150 watt $50 USD grow light. An now looking for a real (but cheap) par meter so can check spectrum as well.

[No3odiesShad0w]

That's fantastic! Thank you for all that info. I have a viparspectra xs1500pro and the PAR map matched up with what my phone was showing so I've been using it to adjust my lights accordingly with great success. Just a fantastic app. Especially if you don't want to spend 500 on a legit PAR meter

[quirk]

Outstanding and thank you. This is why I joined this forum. I'm going to apply the calibration and flowering tips today.

[Ckbrew]

Thank you grouchyoldman for the information. That clarified this topic and put things into perspective.

[Smallgrow]

Yup agreed, excellent summery thx grouchyoldman
I will find a map for my light and check my app calibration before my indoor season starts.