Insect, Foe or Friend...pics

[Bluey]

These little fellas have made a nursery in the top inch of my coco....typically found in huge quantity a quarter inch under the top of the dry coco in the moist coco to about an inch deep...the juveniles are too small to photograph, under a mm in length and they move fast, whitish in appearance....they only seem to come out once grown to the photographed size, a bit under a quarter of an inch. I am assuming they are the same but may not be.
I think I had them last grow but in small numbers. There must be 50 to 100 of them in a small area of coco, say 2 sq inches 5 to 25mm deep.
No generalised obvious sign of leaf damage although I do have 2 unusual leaves showing.

[n1netyn1ne]

Hello,
Looks like maybe ...Fungus Gnats

Also looks like algae growing on top of coco? maybe it seems too wet.. and those bugs like it... might want to cover the top of coco with something to protect the coco from the light.. maybe a layer of small gravel ontop

[Blowdout2269]

I'd have to guess fungus gnats aswell. Though it does seem quite large, the leaf damage is consistent with one of the many symptoms.

[Gingerbeard]

Coco is not generally susceptible to things like fungus gnats unless you have a fungus issue. The bug you are showing is not a FG. Way too big.
I'm going to throw this out to the bug people. There are no stages to gnat growth. They are either in their cocoon thing or are adults.
The leaf damage is nothing to worry about unless it spreads. Leaves do not always grow perfectly.

[Bluey]

I f they are not fungus gnats then they are very very close to them. Wingtip to head 4mm. Better pic of two adults below.

Ok. Few points that I think are relevant.

I do have typically localised algae but beside that the top 10mm is completely dry but changes shade to moist 5 to 15mm below.

I'm pretty certain I am not overwatering...coco, 10 to 20% run off to waste, 3 fertigations, lights on +6 +6, 1 minute timer, mini sprayers x 3 in 12gal pot. 2 to 3lrs/pot/feed 18/6.

Coco is all recycled...washed thoroughly from last grow..EC & pH outputs same as inputs..

I think they are worse this time around as the coco is probably in a more decomposed state...the larvae love it.

Anyway, they are in all the top section of the pots, quite shallow and in great number. And the twins are doing well but are at half the growth stage of the 6 others....and if these things eat the top roots that would make sense.

My thinking is these pots are large enough to support an enormous amount of roots out of the range of these little critters...

I think I will maintain my existing watering schedule. As you can see by the pics not oversaturated....much less I risk zero runoff...and I'm away all week and relying on the automation.

All suggestions and thoughts welcome....I plan on leaving them be.

PS. I have a large amount of pot plant fungus (yellow mushrooms) growing on anything that gets a bit wet. I've let them spore before removing the dying ones...this may be a mistake given the insect numbers.

[Gingerbeard]

Recycled coco? I'm looking at your coco and don't see any perlite.

[Bluey]

Correct..no perlite...coco drains well, pot doesn't sit in waste runoff. Perlite would speed early growth a bit and probably reduce the algae & mushrooms on top....

I used this same method on my first grow with this coco...zero issues apart from user error...this time its different and im guessing it's the decomposing coco.....interesting

[Gingerbeard]

Well, I've not heard of perliteless coco. But hey, if you worked it, it works. All the algae and other growth you are talking about is beyond me.
Reusing soil and coco are both topics that come up frequently.

[Franklin]

Have you tried Google lens? I tried on a few of your photos and different things kept coming up but this looked the closest. I agree with others that they don't look like the same kind of fungus gnats I get, but here's the link: https://bonide.com/insect/fungus-gnats/

[Gingerbeard]

Can you tell if the blue/teal of the wings is actually blue/teal or if it from other light? It looks to me like the thing has a probiscis and might be a leaf sucker? I'm googling.

[Bluey]

The blue teal reflection in the wings in one of the photos appears to be from the light refraction. I'll see if I can get front on pics of the head on lights on....there is only ever 1 or two sitting on the leaves of the entire grow.

[Bluey]

Pretty sure they are a type of fungus gnat.

Plants are healthy and doing well so I'm guessing I got enough of a head start on the seedlings not to be concerned about them...fingers crossed their waste by-products don't cause me issues.

[Gingerbeard]

I'm going to sit back and see what happens.

[Mr.furley]

At first I was going to say leafhopper but then looking at pictures and it resembled a wooly aphid but even more but then I found pictures of a mushroom fungus gnat and I think that would be my best guess. Any large pot with a small plant being watered 3 times a day growing algee, fungus and has bugs is considered overwatered in coco and I don't care what other web sites say. Just because you get runoff does not eliminate over-watering. Plants that don't get enough time to uptake oxygen in the roots are overwatered no matter the medium, that even includes hydro imo think about if you would remove the airstone, you dig?

You are running a Gas Lantern schedule with high fertigation and I get it but in my experience it does not work on smaller plants in bigger pot, it the other way around. Bigger plants in smaller pot, the reason I say this is look at the top of you coco then think about what the roots are sitting in, it may be fine for now and you will/have-had success but think about how much smoother it would go with proper conditions.

I'd also point out that high frequency watering requires a larger amount of perlite in the medium. Example of my plants, are 4 ft tall, 70/30%, 12 months old in 3 gallon pots being watered twice a day for 10 minutes to 15% runoff. If my plants were half that age and size they'd get 1 watering every 24 hr, if your plants were my plants they'd get water to run off every 2 to 3 days

It your grow Bluey and I won't judge how you want to do it, the question wasn't even about watering practices, but its the root of your problem, gnats will come in coco and will live in Coco. I've had many of arguments on here with people over the subject of high frequency watering and I'm quite burned out about it so no disrespect and continue on, it's just my opinion that if you continue to water like that with recycled soil you're going to grow mushrooms have algae sooner or later have sick plants that you've been needing to spray with pesticides and fungicides. Coco coir is organic but not in the no till way. Good luck

[Mr.furley]

Hippies! That explains it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Mr.furley]

I accidentally deleted my comment above after 3% I'll try to edit and to correct myself, I'm a stoner.

"If it is leucocoprinus birnbaumii it can be beneficial helping with algee, toxic to peeps and pets....watch out for spores...." the next statement was incorrect on my part, I'm a stoner. "Trichoderma can accompany Mycelium" got my wires crossed, I'm a stoner! Trichoderma can be beneficial to plants going the organic route. I'm a stoner and get my wires crossed.
Don't want people to read misinformation and wanted to correct the conversation with y'all if you are trying to achieve that hippie vibe.
Sorry about that,

https://youtu.be/stHMD5N-KPw

[Bluey]

I know that feeling

[golfnrl]

This is an interesting discussion. I grow in 50/50 perlite/coco. I use the autopot system. It's a wicking bottom feed system. The plants take up nutrients and push the salts (binding agent for the nutes) to the top. Consequently the top 1" stays dry. I wouldn't have thought that fungus gnats could grow in that environment, clean unused coco, no cross contamination that I could figure out, but they did. I used some fungus gnat cards bought at the local grow shop. Kept things in check. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, the perlite helps create air pockets for the roots, in addition to the drainage help.

[Bluey]

Coco drains exceptionally well on its own.
Its mainly used to allow for additional air uptake by the roots rather than relying on mostly the dissolved air in the nute mix.
This is my second grow indoors and I was a little surprised how slow the seedling stage went first tome around..and that can be attributed to the big pots and reduced air availability at the roots...

I don't like transplanting cannabis plants as it stresses them in my view and I think that may lead to higher male/hermie outcomes, but that's just my opinion..not sure what the science says.

[3Berries]

Mosquito Bits with BT either added to the media or water will take care of the bugs.

[Franklin]

You probably know this but cutting out the mushrooms will protect you from the spores without hurting the mycelium. Just like picking an apple from a tree doesn't hurt the tree

[Going2fast]

Looks like a fungus gnat to me ..... Or a fruit fly. Or Satan......

[Bluey]

Did you mention a CO² setup Mr.furley
Look what I just scored....
How to deliver it...hmm
P

[Bluey]

I'll screw a valve into it then run a dripper along the ceiling over the plants..then i can open up the valve for a second or 2 and we're done for a bit..maybe..lol

[Mr.furley]

You won't have any bugs after.

[Bluey]

It's either going to end up feeding my plants beautifully or be one hell of a fire suppression system.....or both....oooh yeah!