HELP! Having Unknown Issue in Flowering, Help!

[VespatheKid]

I’m on my first grow and have been using the GWE website as my general guide and resource. I’ve had a few issues along the way but nothing like what’s happened in the last month. My plants took a nosedive in the flowering stage and within a week the leaves looked like a dark burnt mess but the buds are still growing and seem to be intact with no rot that I can tell. I’m hoping someone here has seen something like this before and can help make recommendations to prevent this in the future or anything else I should be doing at this point.

Generally speaking within about a week’s time a few leaves had a few brown patches (see first picture) and then many of the fan and sugar leaves on the canopy began to turn a dark muddy green and curling down, then brown, then drying out and shriveling up despite measured waterings and from what I can tell a good grow environment. I’m including as much information and a few pictures here that I hope will help answer some questions about the grow.

I’ve consulted with a few folks: the head of the company who makes my living soil (see product details below), a nearby grow store with a good reputation, and a few grow groups on Facebook and so far no one has seen plants with exactly the type of issues I’m having.

There have been a few good thoughts along the lines of disease, fungus, mites, mold in my home (not aware of any), lack of nutrients due to 5 gal pots not being big enough to hold an optimal amount of living-soil for needed nutrients, lack of water, leaf burn from lights, and seed genetics or combinations of the above.


(FYI - strain names of plants are reversed in photo)


(Same plants a week later.)

I’ve taken a few steps in the past few weeks to try and alleviate the problems:

- My local grow store prescribed a natural product called Protection Plus by Environmental Plant Management for combating fungus and insects for 10 days and I’ve completed this treatment. (Went in the water and sprayed on leaves.) And we’ve added some bug traps too.

- The guy who makes my living soil suggested a flush with only PHed tap water which I’ve also done. The water that came out on one plant had a pretty low PH due to the Protection Plus (citric acid is one of the main ingredients) even though I corrected the PH in the water going in.

- Looking back at the first pictures I thought those brown patches seemed to match a lack of calcium and magnesium (based on the GWE problems guide) so I started adding Cal Magic to the watering after the recent flush.

- I’ve about doubled my watering amounts to 128oz from 64oz per plant. I noticed there wasn’t any runoff anymore. I usually got just a little bit in the previous month which was wicked back up into the pot.

This is a first time grow and I know the plants were never perfect but this issue was so dramatic it is stumping me why it happened and how to stop it. Fortunately the buds appear to be intact (no rot) and the trichromes are mostly clear so far with some with a bit of amber but not milky. It’s been 2 months since I flipped to 12/12.

It’s generally been suggested to let the plants run their course so I’m waiting for those trichomes to get more amber taking pictures with my phone and a 100x scope to check the trichome’s color.

Plants and Grow Setup:

2 Plants:

• Feminized AK-47 & Grape Kush (genetics unknown)
• 5 gal Smart Pots
• Great Lakes Just add water Living Soil - Detroit Nutrient co.
• Watering about every 3 days, using pot lift method, was about 56oz each plant now about 120oz
• Using Tap water + small amount of dechlorinator, did not PH during Veg stage (was encouraged to do this by living soil company i.e. “just add water”), then encouraged to at least PH after flip to flower by grow stores so began adjusting PH to approx 6.5 (tap water avg about 7.5)
• Using Up/Down to correct PH (Usually Down at 1ml per gallon)
• Also adding FishSh*t since flip
• Cal Magic added on last watering
• Otherwise no other nutrients added due to living soil

Hardware:

• LED HLG R Spec 100 Grow light at 18” above the canopy (as suggested by manufacturer)
• Cloudline automated exhaust generally running at full speed due to hot humid weather blowing out into a carbon filter
• 6 inch Fan inside tent w/a few small computer fans on floor for air flow
• Dehumidifier outside tent set to 50%RH
• Gorilla Grow 2x2.5x6 tent

Past month Average Temp 74ºF / 50% RH / 1.43VPD

For the full grow story from seed you can see my grow on Bud here (minus these recent setbacks):

https://growbud.co/shared/sharedGrow?plantId=MKWad9yMiR

I hope some one here can identify this issue and can help.

Thanks.

- vespathekid

[Bootsy]

i have had nitrogen toxicity two times , and it looked suspiciously like what you got going. from description, i guess it is a PH issue. others will chime in, but in the meantime i suggest no more adding anything. do a good watering to get runoff and check its PH. sometimes the soil mix could be really high or low ph and it does become important after switching to flowering- despite what folks might say. bet yours is high, but if it isnt good, this site has got the info to fix. cheers

[GroBuddy]

Is your tap hard as in do you use a water softener? The machine you dump salt into. Also dont listen to stores, our hydroponic store owner really dont know shit about growing just basics to get them by with customers that dont know any better. Never ph living soil never ph organic soil, unless plants say you need to first

[VespatheKid]

No water softener, just fresh tap water. Yeah, I hear you about not PH living soil. The soil company owner told me many times not to PH, then when I went to the shop where I bought it they strongly encouraged me to PH. Another shop has been doing the same. As a new grower it was hard to tell who to listen to. The more I’ve learned about living soil the more I hear not to PH. Lesson learned. Appreciate the good thoughts.

[Rootsruler]

Both plants are exhibiting different issues. I have a sneaking feeling you've got something going on under the soil line.

[Puglover1]

Sometimes 6.8 pH is better for those soils.

[Puglover1]

I just scrolled your grow bud, grow journal. Looks like one plant had leaf color and some tip curling issues in the first few weeks. That seedling soil looked really chunky. If it was the soil you're using now it may have been too strong for the seedlings. Your journal, the plants went from looking good to not so good and back several times. Not sure right now but you had a lot of underneath growth in pics that could be removed, plus don't let the leaves sit on the soil. I'm in IL, you bought products from Chicago plus other places, not sure if you're a fellow Illinoisan. Oh, you said you went from 18/6 to 24/0 then 12/12 at flip, just curious why. Nosy. I understand not watering to overflow with your soil but when you said you watered and the little excess was sucked right up they might not have been watered fully then. You've persevered through some issues with this grow, I hope you can harvest with great success!

[VespatheKid]

Thanks for taking a look see at the journal. I appreciate your synopsis lol, it’s about right. Probably had those leaves there for a few weeks thinking it would work like a compost but once I heard not to have them, I cleaned up right away. Lighting wise, I started with 18/6 based on advice from GWE, then the grow store (Aroma Grow in IL, nice work Detective Puglover! 🕵️♀️) encouraged me to go 24 saying it was fine for more light during veg so I increased.
To be honest, I’m still not totally clear on watering amounts. Tommy from Detroit Nutrient Co (the soil manufacturer) said to go about 56oz on a 5 gal pot during veg and I used the pot lift method or until they were droopy (I knew then I waited an extra day too long to water) and watered about every 3 days. I’ve doubled that for this flower stage and it’s been about week now since last watering. Any advice there?

[bboyfromwayback]

I stopped reading about your issues at ‘the guy who makes my living soil’ 🤷🏻♂️ I’d say that and ph issues combined turned your grow south

[SoOrbudgal]

Totally agree with ph issues

[VespatheKid]

I amended my first post to mention the soil company instead of “the guy who makes my soil” lol. Thanks for the feedback. In my haste to write I abbreviated and listed the soil company at the end of the post but I can understand your judgment.

[VespatheKid]

Thanks for all the good words and feedback. I’m gonna PH some runoff on the next watering and report back. Right now I’m using the UP/DOWN kit with the drops in a vial. How do you folks check PH, same method or a good pen? I’m also adding some updated photos considering that ”After” photo is now almost a month old.

[Ckbrew]

https://www.amazon.com/Hydrion-Chart-Dispenser-5-5-8-0-Range/dp/B00QLBVP74/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=ph+paper&qid=1659018986&sprefix=ph+pa%2Caps%2C100&sr=8-7

Use pH papers. Easy, cheap, reliable, no calibration needed.

[Gingerbeard]

I'm saying you are fine. You are so far along into flowering, leaves turning colors and dying are normal. It's what a lot of plants do in autumn.
Check your pH and all that. But what you have going on is fine.

[Rootsruler]

I use BlueLab meters. Yeah ya gotta calibrate them but they've worked well for me as long as I took care of them.

[VespatheKid]

Here’s the most recent PH results from runoff from tap water going in for both plants. I did not adjust the PH this time and did not add any other additives like Fishsh*t or CalMag or a chlorine adjustment It appears to be in the right range? Usually the water out of the tap has a PH above 7 (greenish in color
).

[GroBuddy]

[DaGreenBlazer]

Yo dude, sorry to be that guy, though i had to add my 2 cents to help - i would also agree it's gonna be a rootzone issue, most likely being a soil/ph problem - as an aside, it does also look quite similar to a persistent toxicity reaction too.

Without sounding rude, though those plants look like they're dying, and if there is no obvious sign of moulds, fungus, etc then that sort of severe leaf death can only be caused by rootzone issues - in your 1st pic you can see signs the leaves are on their way out and to see in the 2nd pic that much tissue loss within a week is extremely concerning - they look like haven't been feeding well for awhile and any good flowering you saw previously was just them running off their internal reserves, which are clearly now exhausted.

If you haven't already checked roots by lifting plant out of pot, i would definitely recommend doing so - if lifting it out is too much hassle due to the netting, then just use a Stanley knife to cut small inch square window out down near bottom of pot, and see what roots look & smell like - if you still have sparkling, white fluffy roots i would be incredibly surprised - i very much suspect you will see either a wet yellow mushiness or more likely just dry brown shrivelled deadness.

Personally i don't think those plants will come back to life in any worthwhile manner and if the roots do look as unhealthy as the top plants then i myself would just bin the whole grow right now - that bud is going to smoke & taste terrible and although it is gutting to quit at this late stage, starting a new, clean grow asap would be a better use of your time. If the roots are somehow bright, white & healthy, then maybe you got a shot, though i honestly think those plants are too far gone to be worth it.

And i would also agree that for 1st few times while you're still learning, just stick to a regular off the shelf brand like Bio-Bizz, FozFarms, etc before you start experimenting with specialist soil mixes.
Also pHing is definitely important - although abit more pricey, the digital pens do make it so much more accurate & easier than the strip tabs. Tbf, the soil could've been fine and it might have been inaccurate pH readings causing you to over-pH by accident - a good pen means you can be more certain about pH, and eliminate it as a potential problem.
Either way, i think restarting fresh is probably your best bet dude - i hope that doesn't sound too harsh though i hate seeing people waste time for nothing.