Tincture potency

[TjckTock]

Hello GWE,
Long time lurker - this site has been my bible since I've taken up this hobby. I have a question about tinctures. I have some really good bud from a grow. If I smoke 0.1g I am set for the day. However, if I make a tincture with 20g of the same bud (+ 16 oz everclear) I am finding that I have to consume about 1/2oz to get even close to the same impact. So 32 doses instead of 200. Is this typical? Is that the difference between eating versus smoking? I make the tincture in the freezer - letting it soak for 3 days after decarbing with an Ardent FX.

[crucialbunny]

I played around with making tincture for a couple years and found that the return on the amount of product necessary and results produced just wasn't worth it. Factor in the godawful taste against the high generated and it seemed like a lose/lose proposition. I am sticking to making edibles these days. Better buzz, less product, and creamy fudge tastes far and away better. Just takes longer for the effects to kick in. I have a freezer stocked with tincture few friends are interested in.

[gbauto]

Hello GWE,
Long time lurker - this site has been my bible since I've taken up this hobby. I have a question about tinctures. I have some really good bud from a grow. If I smoke 0.1g I am set for the day. However, if I make a tincture with 20g of the same bud (+ 16 oz everclear) I am finding that I have to consume about 1/2oz to get even close to the same impact. So 32 doses instead of 200. Is this typical? Is that the difference between eating versus smoking? I make the tincture in the freezer - letting it soak for 3 days after decarbing with an Ardent FX.

Make sure that your flower is decarb-ed before you do your wash.
Most of the cannabinoids are present in their acid form and they need to be decarboxylated(heated) before they are psychoactively available in edible form.

[quirk]

My bad. In answer to your question, it is not normal.

[TjckTock]

Thanks. I, too might try to reclaim eventually. I have successfully reduced all the way to RSO and that stuff is very potent. My question is more about whether it is normal to have to use so much more bud for an equivalent high compared to just smoking it.

[gbauto]

I've been extracting cannabis oil for my meds for about 4 years now.
I use an etoh-pro to reclaim the ethanol and for post-processing.
Most of the strains I've run will usually yield about 15-20% return based on input weight.
look at this for some more resources.

https://www.extractcraft.com/resources-blog/

[alltatup]

I've been making tincture for 5 years, and I get an intense high off the tincture that lasts for around 2 hours, plus hours of relaxation afterwards. I decarb, leave the bud soaking in Everclear in the freezer for weeks; eventually I strain it, but I'm not in a rush. Here's my procedure:TINCTURES: USE COMPLETELY DRY cannabis

1. Decarb bud: don't grind it; try to mess with the buds as little as possible all the way through this process. I use the Ardent Lift machine to decarb bud and preserve terpenes.

2. Put the decarbed bud in a baggie and Everclear 190 proof (EC) separately in the freezer. When it's nice and cold, you're ready to combine them. I put the bud in a mason jar and cover with 190 proof everclear. The more bud you put in, the stronger the tincture will be; I don't cram the bud into the jar; I put around 15-20 grams in. You don't want a weak-ass tincture, so make sure it's good quality and the right quantity of bud. Buds should be completely submerged in the alcohol.

3. Since you're making tincture, you can leave the bud in there for a good long time (as opposed to making concentrates, where you don't want the chlorophyl and other plant material contaminating). With tincture, I want everything to infuse into the alcohol. Store in freezer and shake occasionally. The longer you let it soak, the more magical it becomes.

3. You can either strain out the bud or leave it in and just strain the tincture you're going to use immediately. I've used tincture after 7-8 days and other times I let it sit for three months. I can't say whether or not it's stronger after longer; it's all good. I put the tincture in 8 oz black glass bottles and 1 oz amber dropper bottles and store in the freezer.

4. Titration: start with a low dose and work your way up to the amount that works for you. I take my tincture very early in the morning so that the strongest part of the high has worn down by the time I have to go to work; then I'm relaxed for hours afterward. The intense high lasts for 2-2.5 hours, and I find it to be the best high for me--way better than vaping. I like its intensity and how long it lasts. You'll find the high you like by starting low--say 5 drops--and working your way up. If 5 drops have no effect, try 10, then 15, etc.

5. I squirt the tincture into a 2 tablespoon spoon and add a little juice or almond milk so the EC doesn't burn. I used to hold it under my tongue, but I just swallow it now and the high comes on the same way, same intensity.

6. Keep tincture out of light and heat; store in freezer. I label mine with the date; tincture will keep indefinitely. I also keep records of the strains in each tincture mixture.

DROPPER MEASUREMENTS:
A one-ounce bottle holds approximately 29.5 ml, 7.4 teaspoons, and approx. 900-1,000 drops. When you squeeze the dropper, it won't fill up all the way, but that's the dosage I like: one dropperful, which is around 30 drops.

[TjckTock]

Thanks, everyone, for all the tips and techniques. Has been a good read. However, I am still interested in information - even if anecdotal - on the number of equivalent doses from a given amount of bud. My experience is creating a tincture significantly reduces the number of doses from, say, 1 oz of bud compared to inhaling with a bong.

[grouchyoldman]

I have some really good bud from a grow. If I smoke 0.1g I am set for the day. However, if I make a tincture with 20g of the same bud (+ 16 oz everclear) I am finding that I have to consume about 1/2oz to get even close to the same impact. So 32 doses instead of 200. Is this typical?

Hi TjckTock, @alltatup is on the right track above.

In the end, it all boils down to milligrams of THC (and other cannabinoids) however you consume it.

Let's say your herb has a THC content of 20%, if you smoke 0.1 gram of it you are consuming approximately 20 milligrams of THC. Here's the math:

Let's start by using Milligrams (mg), 0.1 gram = 100 milligrams (mg) of weed. That's how much you are smoking to get a good buzz..
Your herb contains 20% THC by weight, so 100mg * 0.20(%THC) = 20mg of THC. That's the approximate amount of THC you are consuming for that nice effect. Remember that number.

Now let's consider your tincture using the same approach. Potency can be estimated fairly accurately using the following formula:
(THC% (in herb) * mg(of Herb)* Extraction efficiency)/ml(alcohol) = mg/ml of THC in your extraction.

Taking it step by step, if you did everything right, the potency of the tincture you made should look like this:

There are 1000 milligrams(mg) per gram, so your 20 grams of herb = 20,000mg, with 20% THC. So, 20,000 * 0.20(%THC) = 4000mg total available THC.

But the tincture extraction can only get about 75% of the total THC, so 4000mg(total THC) * 0.75 (75% extraction) = 3000mg of THC extracted and suspended in your 16 oz of Everclear.

Converting to Metric, 16 oz * 30ml/oz = 480 ml of Everclear.

So your 3000mg of THC in 480ml of alcohol = 3000/480 = about 6.3mg in each milliliter of alcohol. That's about half the "Normal" 10 - 15mg/ml tincture potency which is why we typically evaporate off about half the tincture alcohol after extraction.

If you consumed half an ounce(15ml) of that tincture you should have received 15ml * 6.3mg/ml = 94 mg of THC. That is a pretty massive dose, enough to land most of us on the couch. So it's clear something is going wrong in your extraction.

Since15mg of THC in smoke gets you high, it should only take 2 or 3 ml of tincture (at 6.3mg/ml) for the same effect.

• Either your tincture process isn't extracting as much THC as it should?
• Or the THC at you are extracting isn't completely activated, perhaps due to a partial decarb process?
• Or perhaps you didn't use the type of bud that you smoked (sugar leaf, larfy bud???)
• Or your extraction technique isn't 75% or greater efficiency?

While I hesitate to send GWE folks to other websites, the link below has more than you'll ever need to know about all things tincture:

https://overgrow.com/t/not-just-another-tincture-thread/7668

I hope this was helpful.
-Grouchy

[alltatup]

Very thorough and accurate statistical analysis of the situation. I was also wondering if the decarb process didn't complete, but TjckTock is using the Ardent machine, which is what I use. Tincture should be kicking butt....

[TjckTock]

OK. I followed that recipe to a T and it is definitely stronger. I'd say I'm over 50% of the potency of smoking the same raw material. Three things different that my prior method. Not sure if one or all contributed:
1) Actually used a double boiler to reduce. I have a nice lab grade burner with a built-in magnetic stirrer so I figured it was swirling fast enough but maybe the temperature at the bottom contact area got too hot and denatured the THC. The tincture does taste a lot better using the double boiler so my guess this is the primary contributor to my poor prior results.
2) Second soak. I soaked for 3 days before so I would think that would get most of it but maybe the second soak is necessary.
3) Shake for 5 minutes (!) This was the hardest difference. 5 minutes is a long time to be vigorously shaking something. I need to invest in a paint shaker if this is really the key difference.

[TjckTock]

Thanks - that thread is a nice read - only scanned it just now but will sit and read more thoroughly later.

" the tincture extraction can only get about 75% of the total THC" - I am definitely not seeing this. One thing I do differently from the recipe in that thread is I don't do a second wash but instead just one 3-day soak.

I think I will try smoking some of the spent plant material after the soak (after evaporating residual alcohol) to see how much potency remains.

[grouchyoldman]

Smoking some of the spent material is a great idea to gauge what's left over after extraction. Good thinking.

Try making a batch of tincture exactly as described in that thread, including reducing the volume by half and see what you think.

Six grams good weed, plus six ounces alcohol and some time in the freezer, should yield at least four ounces (120ml) of 10mg/ml tincture. So a two ml dose should deliver the same 20mg of THC in your 0.1gram doobie smoke. The 120 ml of tincture from that batch would deliver 60 couchlock doses or 120 daytime functioning hits.

A couple more tips,
Be sure and ground/chop your bud it up a bit, you want the alcohol to release every trichome it can get to. Exposed surface = better extraction.
And swirl rather than shaking hard. That reduces the amount of green junk. Ironically, Green Dragon should turn out Golden if you do it right!

Sorry for being so wordy, but I think Tincture is the <b>Unsung Hero of Cannabis Ingestion! Great weed makes fantastic tincture.</b> LoL.

Cheers,
-Grouchy

[alltatup]

Another problem folks sometimes encounter with tincture: it doesn't work on all people. It works best, super-best when I take it on an empty stomach with a little bit of fat. You might want to try it first thing in the morning w/ a bite of cheese or a couple of nuts to see if that works for you.

[TjckTock]

Well. I smoked 0.1g of the spent bud. Got one bong full out of it and can say there is definitely some potency left but also definitely weaker. Hard to be quantitative - could be anywhere from 25% to 50% of the original potency. 25% would be in line with GrouchyOldMan's estimation.

Makes me want to do a more controlled experiment. Maybe I'll spring for a TLC test kit...

[TjckTock]

I followed the Green Dragon recipe to a T and it is definitely stronger. I'd say I'm over 50% of the potency of smoking the same raw material. Three things different than my prior method. Not sure if one or all contributed:
1) Actually used a double boiler to reduce. I have a nice lab grade hot plate with a built-in magnetic stirrer so I figured it was swirling fast enough but maybe the temperature at the bottom contact area got too hot and denatured the THC. The tincture does taste a lot better using the double boiler so my guess this is the primary contributor to my poor prior results.
2) Second soak. I soaked for 3 days before so I would think that would get most of it but maybe the second soak is necessary.
3) Shake for 5 minutes (!) This was the hardest difference. 5 minutes is a long time to be vigorously shaking something. I need to invest in a paint shaker if this is really the key difference.

[grouchyoldman]

Glad to hear that you are having better results @TjchTock

The double boiler is probably a better idea for reducing. Unless you are in a big hurry, just letting a fan blow over the top of your open jar for a few hours does the job nicely.

You are also right about the 5-minute shake. I put on a pair of insulated gloves because holding the freezing jars is painful. But most importantly, you want to just swirl rather than shake vigorously. The extraction is a chemical process not physical, so all you are doing in ensuring that the alcohol contacts every part of the herb. Shaking hard just breaks up more chlorophyll for you to filter out.

Oh, yeah, the filtering process is a time-consuming drag and I think people obsess over it unduly. I just stretch a portion of a 160 bubble bag screen over the top of the jar and pour right through. Only takes a second, captures most of the particles and a tap on the screen afterwards drops the herb back in the jar for the second wash. The result is a golden tincture ready for reduction.

It is a different kind of high than smoking for sure but once you can produce a consistent and reliable tincture I bet it will find a place in your life. Try a spoonful of Infused Sugar in your coffee or tea in the morning!