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Has anyone brought a plant out of this before? Should I give up?

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    Has anyone brought a plant out of this before? Should I give up?

    I've had another batch in veg turn up this way. The new growth crinkles up and growth nearly stops. I let the humidity levels fall too low. I have an Alien Rock Candy that isn't affected because it was transplanted later than the rest after I figured out that the low RH was screwing everything up. All else was the same.

    Here's a sample:

    Click image for larger version

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    I've got two new Niwas keeping things in line now. I thought for a while it was brought on by stress from manifolding them so I laid off cutting on the ARC until this week after I was satisfied that she was healthy enough. Still, I only gave her a simple topping. New growth looks fine on her. I forget which one this one in the photo is, but it's probably Expert Gorilla (not that it matters). I've got another batch in the nursery so it's not such a disaster if they can't be saved, just a shame that I had to learn this way. It's just another one of those things that I never had to deal with in hydro.
    Flower tent:
    4x4 tent, Platinum LED P4-XML2. Purple Kush, Sweet Zombie, two Cloud Walkers and Purple Urkle in flower.

    3x3 tent, Platinum P300 LED. Wedding Cake and Pineapple Express drying.

    Coconut Grove: Vegging Northern Lights, Larry's Lemon OG, Banana Blaze, Alien Technology, Romulan, Expert Gorilla and Alien Rock Candy fem photos in a 4x4 tent under a Platinum P4-XML2 LED.

    Nursery: 32"x32" tent with T-5 fluorescent panel. Expert MAC-1, Blueberry, Jack Herer, Peyote Z-z, GDP, Orange Cookies x Nicole, G-13 and Chocolate Mint OG.

    Coco/Perlite/worm castings/mycorrhizae mix.
    Down-To-Earth dry amendments.

    On deck: Tuna God, Bubba God or OG Kush for seed plus assorted feminized seeds. I might even try my Blueberry Kolache F1s. Have over 1000 homegrown Ghost Train Haze seeds and hundreds of Skunk #1 and Blueberry available for trade.

    #2
    Ouch! I haven't grown in soil in almost 10 years but it looks like you have a lot of things going on. No proof other than your photo but it really looks like root/ph/nutrient lockout issues to me. At least that would be my first reaction if I saw one of my hydro girls looking the same. You've gotten them this far, I'd say try some recovery steps before you give up on them. A good flush with ph balanced water (6-7? for soil) and hydrogen peroxide. When they're good and dry add back in your nutes and hydroguard at 2x strength for a week or so. 2x on the hydroguard not the nutes. Fingers crossed for the best possible outcome. OH, and you're gonna love the Chocolate Mint OG mmmm mmmm good!

    Also... (addendum here) if it was me I'm not sure how much stock I would put in the advice of someone who hasn't touched my growing medium in 10 years.
    Last edited by BU2B; 01-06-2022, 09:18 PM.
    "I can't stop thinking big, I can't stop thinking big. In a world where I feel so small. I can't stop thinking big." Caravan | RUSH
    GWE4ME

    Comment


    • UndergroundFarmer
      UndergroundFarmer commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm sure it isn't pH or nutrient issues. The Alien Rock Candy was raised exactly the same as all these others except that I throttled down the exhaust fan to preserve humidity levels after I realized that they had fallen into the 30s. She is growing like a champ. The rest are growing feebly with almost no internode space. I'll have to search for it again but I did come across a GWE article about low RH stress causing symptoms resembling Boron deficiency. The article didn't mention whether or not there was any way to fix them after this happens.

    #3
    Also give them a good look over for bugs, bugs often cause leaf curl.

    Comment


    • Eliot Pryor
      Eliot Pryor commented
      Editing a comment
      That's what I thought also.

    • UndergroundFarmer
      UndergroundFarmer commented
      Editing a comment
      I've got a population of fungus gnats but they are mostly harmless and I'm about to run them off with Neem seed meal this weekend.

    #4
    Check out this thread. I lost 4 plants this summer due to this. I thought high heat and humidity had caused it but it was only these four that were close proximity to each other. The. New growth looked exactly like yours. No signs of bugs on plant or roots. They all died within a few weeks
    https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ome-are-having

    Comment


    • UndergroundFarmer
      UndergroundFarmer commented
      Editing a comment
      It took a few tries to get the page to load but I got it. I tried a Google image search and the infected plants don't resemble mine, in fact they look better! I might just make up a bleach solution for the trimmers though to be safe. I might just start pinching to top and defoliate more as well so I can get around the danger of infected trim scissors.

    #5
    When you say this happened to another batch, UndergroundFarmer , are you talking another grow or this?
    Damn
    3x3x6
    HLG 360 Elite
    New In coco 01/20
    GDP
    Zkittlez
    G-13
    Black Domina
    5 gallon fabric
    Mother Earth Coco and Perlite
    Dyna Gro Foliage
    Dyna Gro Bloom
    CalMag

    Comment


    • UndergroundFarmer
      UndergroundFarmer commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm talking about another batch of seedlings moved to veg then manifolded. The survivors from the previous batch are in flower and they are trying but buds are tiny and very slow to develop.

    #6
    Quick Wikipedia link. Cannabis mention.
    Damn
    3x3x6
    HLG 360 Elite
    New In coco 01/20
    GDP
    Zkittlez
    G-13
    Black Domina
    5 gallon fabric
    Mother Earth Coco and Perlite
    Dyna Gro Foliage
    Dyna Gro Bloom
    CalMag

    Comment


      #7
      Here's the GWE page about Boron deficiency which I believe caused my issue.

      "Boron is not absorbed well if there isn’t enough moisture, for example if plant is underwatered or humidity is very low (below 25% relative humidity in the air). Proper watering practices will help prevent underwatering, and a humidifier may be needed to achieve the best growth if your grow room is very dry. Boron is not absorbed well if there isn’t enough moisture, for example if plant is underwatered or humidity is very low (below 25% relative humidity in the air). Proper watering practices will help prevent underwatering, and a humidifier may be needed to achieve the best growth if your grow room is very dry."

      The first time around, I went crazy blaming the nutrients, the pH adjusters and probably made the whole situation worse. I'll get more pictures of the damaged bits this weekend and a shot of the Alien Rock Candy that wasn't exposed to low RH. This trouble only started this winter so it all makes sense.
      Flower tent:
      4x4 tent, Platinum LED P4-XML2. Purple Kush, Sweet Zombie, two Cloud Walkers and Purple Urkle in flower.

      3x3 tent, Platinum P300 LED. Wedding Cake and Pineapple Express drying.

      Coconut Grove: Vegging Northern Lights, Larry's Lemon OG, Banana Blaze, Alien Technology, Romulan, Expert Gorilla and Alien Rock Candy fem photos in a 4x4 tent under a Platinum P4-XML2 LED.

      Nursery: 32"x32" tent with T-5 fluorescent panel. Expert MAC-1, Blueberry, Jack Herer, Peyote Z-z, GDP, Orange Cookies x Nicole, G-13 and Chocolate Mint OG.

      Coco/Perlite/worm castings/mycorrhizae mix.
      Down-To-Earth dry amendments.

      On deck: Tuna God, Bubba God or OG Kush for seed plus assorted feminized seeds. I might even try my Blueberry Kolache F1s. Have over 1000 homegrown Ghost Train Haze seeds and hundreds of Skunk #1 and Blueberry available for trade.

      Comment


        #8
        I won't post any of the sites I looked at. GWE has similar information.

        When the late Sexless M was growing, I made a post about hollow stems. Boron deficiency comes up a number of times in research. Might I ask you to pinch a stem? Maybe that'll give you a little more evidence, boron or not?
        Damn
        3x3x6
        HLG 360 Elite
        New In coco 01/20
        GDP
        Zkittlez
        G-13
        Black Domina
        5 gallon fabric
        Mother Earth Coco and Perlite
        Dyna Gro Foliage
        Dyna Gro Bloom
        CalMag

        Comment


        • UndergroundFarmer
          UndergroundFarmer commented
          Editing a comment
          I tried a few. The smaller stems are solid enough. The main stems I topped were hollow.

        • Gingerbeard
          Gingerbeard commented
          Editing a comment
          Evidence for B-def?

        • UndergroundFarmer
          UndergroundFarmer commented
          Editing a comment
          B-def apparently triggers some degree of calcium deficiency too, so yeah, kinda.

        #9
        Northern Lights:
        Click image for larger version

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        Alien Rock Candy with NL just behind it:
        Click image for larger version

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        They are both in the same mix with pH hanging around in the 6.2-6.8 range.
        Flower tent:
        4x4 tent, Platinum LED P4-XML2. Purple Kush, Sweet Zombie, two Cloud Walkers and Purple Urkle in flower.

        3x3 tent, Platinum P300 LED. Wedding Cake and Pineapple Express drying.

        Coconut Grove: Vegging Northern Lights, Larry's Lemon OG, Banana Blaze, Alien Technology, Romulan, Expert Gorilla and Alien Rock Candy fem photos in a 4x4 tent under a Platinum P4-XML2 LED.

        Nursery: 32"x32" tent with T-5 fluorescent panel. Expert MAC-1, Blueberry, Jack Herer, Peyote Z-z, GDP, Orange Cookies x Nicole, G-13 and Chocolate Mint OG.

        Coco/Perlite/worm castings/mycorrhizae mix.
        Down-To-Earth dry amendments.

        On deck: Tuna God, Bubba God or OG Kush for seed plus assorted feminized seeds. I might even try my Blueberry Kolache F1s. Have over 1000 homegrown Ghost Train Haze seeds and hundreds of Skunk #1 and Blueberry available for trade.

        Comment


        • UndergroundFarmer
          UndergroundFarmer commented
          Editing a comment
          That's a 9 finger leaf up top. She feels good!

        #10
        I had 2 autos that did this on my last grow, one after the other. No idea what caused it but I just tossed both of them

        Comment


          #11
          You sure you don't have heat or circulation issue? They look like their dehydrated ?
          Smoke Ganja create Peace Respect Nature don't trash the Planet

          Soil grower with coco/perlite mixed in
          indoor/outdoor grower
          1 36"x36"x66" tent- Viparspectra P2500
          1 3x3x6 tent- used in late spring for seedlings both veggies & weed. I have 2 viparspectar 450r for that tent.
          I use a t-5 & 54watt CFL for seedlings
          Sometimes i use plastic sometimes i use fabric grow containers
          Currently using fish/guano during veg growth & FF Grow Big 6-4-4 teens to bloom. Once i see pre-flower i switch to
          Age Old Organics Bloom 5-10-5

          Comment


          • UndergroundFarmer
            UndergroundFarmer commented
            Editing a comment
            They've been both a little cold and a lot dry before I took care of the environmental challenges.
            Last edited by UndergroundFarmer; 01-08-2022, 07:17 PM.

          #12
          I'll decide what to do with them tomorrow. I'll probably just clear the decks and compost the damaged ones and start a whole 'nother batch of seeds to replace them. The speed that the healthy ones are growing reminds me that this isn't normal nor is it worthwhile screwing around with plants this sickly.
          Flower tent:
          4x4 tent, Platinum LED P4-XML2. Purple Kush, Sweet Zombie, two Cloud Walkers and Purple Urkle in flower.

          3x3 tent, Platinum P300 LED. Wedding Cake and Pineapple Express drying.

          Coconut Grove: Vegging Northern Lights, Larry's Lemon OG, Banana Blaze, Alien Technology, Romulan, Expert Gorilla and Alien Rock Candy fem photos in a 4x4 tent under a Platinum P4-XML2 LED.

          Nursery: 32"x32" tent with T-5 fluorescent panel. Expert MAC-1, Blueberry, Jack Herer, Peyote Z-z, GDP, Orange Cookies x Nicole, G-13 and Chocolate Mint OG.

          Coco/Perlite/worm castings/mycorrhizae mix.
          Down-To-Earth dry amendments.

          On deck: Tuna God, Bubba God or OG Kush for seed plus assorted feminized seeds. I might even try my Blueberry Kolache F1s. Have over 1000 homegrown Ghost Train Haze seeds and hundreds of Skunk #1 and Blueberry available for trade.

          Comment


            #13
            Sometimes it is better to cut your loss and start over. You are not a new grower so you have experience in what you think they will produce, or not produce. If you still think Elm disease is a possibility, maybe you want to incinerate them instead of composting.
            Don't worry, be happy, grow sticky buds.

            Comment


              #14
              UndergroundFarmer If you're gonna ditch her pull the whole plant and inspect the soil for critters and to see if maybe she's root bound? Sometimes a girl just needs a bigger cup size.

              Comment


              • UndergroundFarmer
                UndergroundFarmer commented
                Editing a comment
                That's not too far fetched. I did inspect the root balls. In fact, I didn't even wait to reclaim the coco, I did it the same day. Roots were all healthy enough and several were ready for transplant. If they had stayed healthy, they would have gone to much larger pots just before being flipped to flower.

              #15
              I took down all the sick ones in veg on Sunday and transplanted all of the seedling that were big enough to 1.5 gallon pots. All are doing well but Alien Rock Candy is showing just a bit of the same shriveling but only at the top two nodes. I topped her using fingers instead of trimmers. I may try adding some basalt rock dust to see if it stops all of that. Who knows, maybe it was an actual boron deficiency the whole time but that seems unlikely. I'll check pH tomorrow just to be sure but the rest of the plant is fine - the lower growth nodes still look good.
              Flower tent:
              4x4 tent, Platinum LED P4-XML2. Purple Kush, Sweet Zombie, two Cloud Walkers and Purple Urkle in flower.

              3x3 tent, Platinum P300 LED. Wedding Cake and Pineapple Express drying.

              Coconut Grove: Vegging Northern Lights, Larry's Lemon OG, Banana Blaze, Alien Technology, Romulan, Expert Gorilla and Alien Rock Candy fem photos in a 4x4 tent under a Platinum P4-XML2 LED.

              Nursery: 32"x32" tent with T-5 fluorescent panel. Expert MAC-1, Blueberry, Jack Herer, Peyote Z-z, GDP, Orange Cookies x Nicole, G-13 and Chocolate Mint OG.

              Coco/Perlite/worm castings/mycorrhizae mix.
              Down-To-Earth dry amendments.

              On deck: Tuna God, Bubba God or OG Kush for seed plus assorted feminized seeds. I might even try my Blueberry Kolache F1s. Have over 1000 homegrown Ghost Train Haze seeds and hundreds of Skunk #1 and Blueberry available for trade.

              Comment

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