Edible potency

[KKAlps]

If a recipe for canna-butter called for ,say, 1 oz of cannabis, and you used 2 oz's, does that make the butter twice as potent? Does 3oz equals 3 times as potent ect?. Or is it a case of diminishing returns and the butter can only absorb so much THC/CBD?

Alternatively, what is the most efficient way to access THC, by smoking or via edibles?

[oldjarhead100]

Good question for starters I think the butter will only absorb a portion of the thc ,I say this because I make oil from washing it in alcohol twice and their is always something left over ,Ive had people try the washed material and they reported getting high from it although not a great high .that being said the thing with edibles is you can eat to much very easily so I would stick to the recipe , the difference between smoking or eating is purely a personal choice , I think its 2 entirely different highs smoking is quicker to get high but I think edibles last longer
the problem that most people have with edibles that they take to long to get high so they take more to soon ,if you want to try edibles eat one and smoke a J by the time the joint wears off you will be feeling the edibles

[grouchyoldman]

That is indeed a good question KKAlps.

The potency determination begins with an estimate of the THC percentage in your herb. Average weed has about 15% THC. If you grow a good strain using what you've learned on GWE, you're likely up to 20% or higher. The latest "Super Strains" boast up to 30% THC.

Once you've picked an estimate from that range the math is pretty simple, but let's start by discussion measurement units. To make comparisons easier we want to work in milligrams (for weight) and Milliliters (for liquids) rather than ounces. The conversion goes like this:

One dry ounce = 28.35 grams & each gram = 1000 milligrams, so an ounce of herb = 28,350 milligrams (mg).
One liquid ounce = 28.4 milliliters

So, for example, your proposed two ounces of decarbed weed will weigh about 56,700 mg, of which let's say 20% is THC available for extraction. 56,700 times 0.20 (20% THC) = 11,340 mg THC total before extraction.

A good extraction method, like Quick Wash Ethanol (QWET) will capture about 75% of the total available so your 11,340 mg is reduced to 8,505 mg of THC after extraction (11,340 * 0.75).

Now comes the tricky part. If your extraction has captured 8505 mg of THC the potency of your final product depends on how much non-THC "Carrier) liquid those milligrams are dissolved in. For example if you used a QWET extraction and evaporated all the alcohol, the remaining oil would contain all 8505 mg of THC (and other cannabinoids and terpenes). That's why a highly concentrated rice-grain sized drizzle of RSO produces a smash mouth high.

On the other hand, since your target is CannaButter, let's say you used the Magical Butter Machine with your two ounces of 20% THC herb. The MBM recipe calls for one cup (8oz) of butter per ounce of herb. So the math for your MBM batch looks like this:

2 cups butter is 16oz * 28.4 ml per oz = 454 ml butter. (We measure the liquid butter in milliliters)

56,700 mg (2 oz of herb) * 0.020 (20% THC) * 0.75 (75% extraction efficiency) = 8,505 mg (total THC extracted) / 454 ml of butter (2 cups) = 18. 7 mg/ml THC. Notice that this 18.7 mg/ml concentration doesn't increase if you use more herb, because you also will be adding more butter per the recipe.

Most edibles recipes target between 10 - 15 mg of THC per serving, so our example makes a pretty potent CannaButter. Of course the amount delivered per serving just depends on how much butter is used in in your brownies (or whatever) divided by the number of servings.

Your question about "Diminishing Returns" due to an absorption limit remains unanswered and perhaps someone with more experience can help. I believe the Magical Butter Machine recipe ratio of a cup of buttter for each oz of herb is intended to produce the "Normal" target potency rather any absorption limitation.

[oldjarhead100]

wow well said

[SoOrbudgal]

Smoke a big fat greasy oily joint

[PeterMatanzas]

you used 2 oz's, does that make the butter twice as potent? Does 3oz equals 3 times as potent ect?. Or is it a case of diminishing returns and the butter can only absorb so much THC/CBD?

Generally, the amount of a chemical that can be dissolved in a solvent is limited. At some point the solution becomes saturated. Each ionic compound has its own solubility limit, which is the maximum amount of the compound that can remain in solution. I don't know what's the saturation point for dissolving cannabinoids in an oil, but there is a limit.

All of the cannabinoids in 3 oz of flower may not be dissolved by butter fat. The butter may be saturated after 2 oz, or even one.

[grouchyoldman]

Hi PeterMatanzas, thx for an cogent description of the saturation question.

Unfortunately it doesn't give us any guidance on a practical THC extraction limit. And lacking that, the question becomes how can we move towards an answer?

So, I wondered what would be the best "experiments" to get a rough estimate of the saturation limits?

Here's a couple of ideas:

• Let's focus on using a QWET extraction since it simplifies both the process and the resultant tincture potency is fairly reliable.
• Let's focus on ways to try and hit some "upper limit" of extraction saturation points.
• If possible, let's leverage more cannabis delivery types (flower, hash, concentrates) for testing. (example below)

I don't know if anyone would be interested in this project, but a cooperative effort towards answering an important question would make a great GWE Forum Thread....

Anyways, rather than hijack this thread, how's about anyone interested in working on this as a group send me a PM grouchyoldman and we'll see where it goes.

Oh, yeah, I promised an example of a useful experiment. Consider this: Yesterday I dissolved two grams of mediocre bubble hash in one ounce of everclear, QWET style, and produced about an ounce of mindf**k tincture! I'm guessing potency 45 mg/ml. So, there's a data point for ya.

[bboyfromwayback]

Great post above. Grouchy gets technical with it but makes complete sense if you can follow. To keep it simple, if you’re growing quality flower, there’s no need to use more than 1oz per 2cups of whatever you’re making (butter, oil, ect) IMO. After that it’s just dosing amounts

We had some friends over last night. I usually put 4g of butter in my coffee, 5g if I really want that deep stone. Yesterday evening at 6pm I put 5g in my mug, gave my buddy 6g because that’s the kinda friend I am plus I knew he wouldn’t mind one bit. Just got off the phone with him. He’s a tad hungover today 😂

[DeadlyFruit]

Great information @grouchyoldmam you were exactly who I was going to tag this to when I saw the post.

I read recently something on that point, saturation of oil. I wish I could remember where. I think it may have been in the comments section of a post by ichibancrafter on the extractcrafter site. He is very dialled in to oils and extracts, as you’d expect from the site, and the saturation point he mentioned (assuming I am remembering who made the comment correctly) was extremely high (no pun intended…mostly). With that said he admitted it was based on a logical assessment of the science and not actual lab testing and real results.

I am just about to make my own post on my experience making gummies over the weekend and while I was at it I also made a batch of cannabudder (when the cat is away the mice are allowed to stink up the kitchen as the saying should go). I generally make butter from trim and ABV and I make oils (when I can make an oil worth talking about! 🙂) with trim and bud. Last night I loaded 3.5oz of relatively low temp vaped water cured ABV and 1.5oz of mixed trim and popcorn bud into 550grams of butter. You can get it really strong but the downside is with all of that pulp material there seems like an increased rate of waste - more butter stuck in the material that is difficult to squeeze out of hot pulp. I generally make it pretty strong but the reality is unless you have a high tolerance you will just use less of it at a time. When I make weed krispie squares with super strong butter I use a mix of normal and cannabutter rather than just straight cannabudder so it isn't essential to load up the butter to the saturation point (there are a few situations where a small amount of strong butter is useful - e.g. a person who prefers to take their weed by adding it to coffee but has a very high tolerance).

There are a number of pretty good calculators that should help you with calculating how much snap is in in your butter if you do a search, but I would love to see a calculator that can calculate other things like trim and kief. I did find one that takes a stab at ABV, including water curing as a possible parameter.

[Catfish22]

I found this. It is semi-fairly scientific, for stoners anyway. ✌😎

https://hightimes.com/edibles/which-fat-absorbs-thc-best/?amp

[DeadlyFruit]

Great article. I love the ones based on lab testing, although it is interesting to note that the person running the experiment received inconsistent results from different labs.

[Catfish22]

Wel it was also different preparers. One is a stoner with a column in HT.


The other is an edibles for medicinal purposes chef.

That's what I meant by semi-fairly, however it is the only test of it's kind I have ever seen.

I bet big pharma can tell you precisely what the saturation limits are!

[DeadlyFruit]

Good point!

[KKAlps]

Thanks to all who replied, I am fairly new to this, so I don't know anything about the alcohol wash methods you mention. I mostly indulge to help with sleep, so the longer drawn out effect that edibles seem to have works well. Also I have never been a smoker, so I find the smoking part a little unpleasant, [not to mention the health aspect] but still the instant effect of smoking is handy sometimes. But maybe it is best to stick to the recipe and just eat more cookies if needed. Cheers.

[bboyfromwayback]

You may want to look into a vape pen that uses dry flower if you want the quicker effect of smoking. It’s not my thing but a lot of people like them.

[Catfish22]

As bboy suggested a vape pen could be a good choice for you. The added bonus is you save the vaped flower and use it to make caps or butter or whatever you please. It's referred to as ABV (for already been vaped) material. If you Google it you can find out more. I understand that Arizer, a company in Canada has a good reputation for a quality product.
Happy farming! 🙂🌱

[DeadlyFruit]

Agree with bboy and catfish, using a vape device could be a good thing for you. I don’t want to say pen because that is usually synonymous with vaping cartridges of distillate whereas I vape regular herb in a portable vape device, which is also where you get your ABV. In my book (I am sure others have different and equally valid opinions) vaping cartridges feels a bit more like I am using something that came out of a lab vs vaping plain regular weed I grew myself. I just made cannabudder using my ABV(plus some trim although it was probably strong enough with just the ABV) - I like doing this as it feels like I am getting the most from my efforts. I am not a smoker either and I mainly use edibles for sleeping but my vape device is useful when I want a quick onset.

If you want to know more about the alcohol washes feel free to either post some questions here or else ping one of us with a direct message. You might start by reading the articles on GWE as that is always a good place to start. I know they have articles on QWET, green dragon, tinctures, oils, hashmaking, etc.