2,000w LED Distance

[WebGuyTom]

This ain't my first rodeo, but it's the first time I've grown with this much power, and the first time growing 8 Ball Kush. And if you find some typos, I just returned from the dentist and a root canal for a crown...

I'm growing in hydro, change my water weekly (and very strict about that), check the plant daily, and made just one mistake about which I know. I didn't use Bloom nutrients throughout the grow - only after it was time to switch to bloom. I've made note to read the bottles carefully and will use all 3 nutes in the future from start to finish.

I saw the first stretch when the seed was germinating. In just 24 hours after germination the seedling grew so tall it was laying over. I had the light the recommended 12 inches from the seed pod. I started the germination February 1, 2021, but with the light so far away and the seedling looking dead, I started over 2 weeks later. That when I lowered the light and everything started working perfectly.
I switched to bloom April 17, 2021. I'm planning harvest around the first week of June.

I corrected the distance and, believe it or not, put the light down to within 6 inches of the seedling - and it loved that. I kept that distance for several weeks as I was training the plant for the 8 colas. I "mainlined" (manifold) the plant with 8 colas.

But I got nervous that something "might" go wrong, and as the plant got taller I increased the distance. I eventually settled on 9 inches from the top of the plant instead of 12.

All through the veg stage, and I have pics from nearly every day (only missed a couple), the plant was perfection showing no signs of anything other than the germination stretch then the bloom stretch. My plan was to let it grow to 18 inches then switch to bloom.

At that 18 inches I switched to bloom - April 17, 2021.

In my previous "crops", I had different lights. I started with dirt and inexpensive lights, graduated to hydro and a 600w LED single switch when I grew Jack Herer, and that crop came out fantastic! I harvested a little over a pound wet, which dried to a bit over a quarter pound with some awesome sized buds...not as long as Nugbuckets though....still trying to at least match his. I had no stretching at any point in that crop.
This crop is hydro with a 2,000w LED with dual switches.

Literally everything was (and still is) just humming along perfectly. Not one leaf of the plant showed / shows any signs of any problems, except that the plant continued to grow tall fast - the stretch. I have a height maximum in my grow-corner, just 47 inches. I could get another 2 or 3 inches by getting really creative, but I was able to stop the height growth only about 2 weeks ago and still have that 2 or 3 inches remaining.

When I was still sweating the growth of over 1/2 inch daily (I have pictures to prove it), even after switching to bloom, I used both the veg and bloom lights together, based on several who believe that's best.
I stopped the height growth by switching off the veg light so that the plant only has bloom lights.
I was happy to see that the plant stopped growing at it's current height of 38 inches (40 on 2 colas) and seems to be only working on fattening the buds - of which they are plenty!

See the pics I took today.

Now that you have the background, here are my questions.

Can the LED drop down to maintain that 6 inch distance from the plant and maintain the dispersion of the light?
Is the only "test" for distancing an LED to watch for any signs of problems, like burn?
Will dropping the distance "stop" that dreaded stretch? (only dreaded because I'm limited in height)
Now that the height growth seems to be stopped and the buds (to me) are really working harder on fattening up with only the bloom light on, will the plant do any "fill-in"? I know there is no possible way to grow something on the branch where there is nothing growing. But I'm hoping the buds will grow much larger. Is that pie-in-the-sky?
I know that the strain is something to seriously investigate in order to prepare for stretch...now...one of those "if I knew then what I know now..."...moments.

Although, I seem to have stopped the height growth when I turned off the veg light, what's the consensus about lowering the light? And don't fall back to the recommended distance from the manufacturer because that's not helpful.
What I'm hoping is that someone who has grown with LED's of this power range and the pesky 8 Ball Kush wanting to grow sky-high has figured out that the distance of the LED "can" be much less than "typical".
I'm also hoping someone will say the buds "will" increase dramatically so that I'm not completely frustrated with all that "wasted space" in the length of the branches.

Ok. Now I'm ready to listen.

[BaccaRacca]

It is likely the wattage rating of your lamp is marketing hype and not the true draw from the wall. Exactly which brand and model lights do you have?

I, too, find manufacturer guidelines lacking and experiment, but can't really comment until I know more about your lights.

[SoOrbudgal]

Whewww that's a big post. This happens without training the plant.

[gbauto]

4 feet???

That would be a challenge for me to grow in.
Training is going to be critical if you want to max your yields.
I wouldn't veg over 12" tall before flipping, and even then it will get crowded.

[WebGuyTom]

As I mentioned, I've had several crops in the small area I have. When I grew "Jackie" it was perfection - long, tall buds, fat, didn't max out the height of the area, and I was really happy with the yield.

I usually don't veg beyond 12".
I've never grown 8 Ball Kush, and the data says its max height (85cm - 33 inches and change) is "shorter" than what I have now.

The light, BaccaRacca, is a Koscheal. And I agree, the wattage could be off.
But...the fact remains that the plant is in great condition, yet there has been too much stretch in veg and bloom stages. You can see the stretch in that first pic with all that growth in the stems but no leaves or buds growing - just a lot of blank space.

"I" think that if I lowered the light from my current 9 inch distance from the tops, down to say 5 inches, and then watch (in another grow) to see if that either hurts the plant (stress or heat marks) or helps (keeps the plant from stretching at any stage).
In fact, right now there is 1 cola that is only 5 inches away from the light, and is still in perfect condition. No signs of heat on that cola at all.

Oddly, I've grown 2 plants at the same time in my same set up - although with a 600w LED light - and not had it too crowded. But, that's when I was first starting hydro. Jackie was grown alone as is 8 Ball now. This 8 Ball grew fat and tall. But the data says it would just get fat and not over 85cm tall.

BaccaRacca, you may be on to something. If the light doesn't actually have as much power as it's rated, that would mean the plant stretched through most of the grow because it was reaching for that light. I wonder what it would have been like if I'd grown this plant in scrog.


SoOrbudgal, the plant "is" trained. Is that what you meant? (see the added image) I tried a bit different training than what "I" prefer, but was following Nebula's method. "I" like to just pinch the new growth to split a branch. That's how I grew Jackie and it was perfection.
Or did you mean it would have stretched even if it wasn't trained?

It seems to me that the plant just kept trying to get "more" from the light.
So would the general consensus be, for this specific light and strain, get that light closer to the plant?
When I did have it really close during the early veg, there was never any sign of heat on the plant - or any negative signs of anything. I only moved the light further away because pretty much everywhere, not just the manuf. info, says 12 inches is a "sweet spot".

I guess the next time I grow 8 Ball I'll just keep the light close and see if that work. Hopefully I'll still get a good yield on the current plan. I'll know in about 3 weeks.

Thank you all for your input.

I just remembered something that may or may not be of significance.
I always use General Hydroponics nutes. After the seedling is established well, I switch to "Aggressive Growth". I did that with this 8 Ball Kush and now I'm thinking, for the "next" grow of 8 Ball I'll keep the plant on "general" nutes and the light low. Since I watch daily, it should be easy to adjust as necessary.

[BaccaRacca]

Indeed you are growing some good-looking plants.

As for the lights, I checked their sales site on Amazon, where it states the draw at the wall is 239 Watts, which is very similar to my Vipar-Spectra 450 Dimmable with Red-Blue-White light channels. Yours is an older type of "blurple" light that lacks any white light. I think I recall an article by Nebulae Haze somewhere in the GWE pages that white light is important for cannabis growth.

Comparing their published PPFD (photosynthetic photon flux density) map for plant hanging height to one for my VS 450 dimmable, it looks like the model you have doesn't quite have the intensity and penetrating power -- not surprising considering the difference in price between the two models.

That said, I think you can get your lights closer. I have gotten mine within 6" with some White Widow, where I was playing "How Low Can You Go?" On the other hand I have a GG#4 that I just flipped yesterday and I can't get it within 20" of the lights.

So maybe try lowering the lights and add a couple of CFLs to fill in on the white light?

[WebGuyTom]

Thanks BaccaRacca.

Thank you for the kind words about my plant - singular. It just looks like it's a couple.

Just before I came to see if anybody had replied here, I stopped by Amazon where I bought the light. I left a pretty nasty review, stating very clearly that the light is nowhere near 2,000w.

Like you, in the first part of my grow on this plant I dropped the light with 6". But I just got nervous with something that is "supposed" to be 2,000w and figured I didn't want to deal with plant stress or burn. So I kept the light at 9".
And since I've only got about 3 weeks left to harvest, I don't think there is enough time to make any radical changes that would make enough difference to the plant. I'm either going to drop back to the 600w that I used to grow a great Jack Herer just before this grow, or I'm going to find a 2,000w light that is truly that much power. I don't have to have that much power. I came across the one I got and saw it was a great price for so much power...which I should have known then to be overly suspicious.

I completely agree. I have one cola sitting less than 5" from the light and it's not bothering that cola one little bit. That cola looks just as healthy as the rest of the plant - which, "I" think, we have determined the light to be FAR less than 2,000w. I said in my review that it "might" be as high as 400w.

So, thinking about the "next" crop, what do you know about this light - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073P6S62M...v_ov_lig_dp_it

That said, maybe I should look into the one you have. I only have a small area, about 3 x 2 with a height limit of about 40". After this grow I'm going to take the legs off the platform I use under the hydro container so that the platform is sitting on the floor. That will gain me another 6".

What size area do you use for growing? The light I'm considering (in the link) is the perfect width for my grow area, and the depth is easy to fit since it's under 9 inches.
Is your GC#4 just 250w?!
I've gone from 200w - 400w - 600w and then to the 2000w. The 600w did the best. But I still want to get "...more power, Mr. Scott!" I want those long buds that Nugbuckets grew. I'm sure it will need to be a combination of light and strain though.

Thank you for digging into the light. I'll just add it to the crap pile - unless you know someone who wants the sucker. It works great...just not enough power. You don't even have to turn it off mid-way through the 18 / 6 veg period. It can run 18 hours no problem. I have the box and everything that came with it if you know someone who wants to screw with the sucker. Tell them they can pay for shipping and I'm good.

[BaccaRacca]

I don't think all is lost. As I mentioned earlier, you could add some cfls to improve your light. More light intensity over the next few weeks can improve the density of your bud. You still have some time to maximize your harvest.

As for brands to recommend, I follow what this website recommends. The lights I bought were recommended for size of my grow. They can heat things up a bit, but that was a plus in the cool confines of my grow room. The model I use has been discontinued. I think the newer models from Vipar-Spectra might interest you.

For example here is a good option for your price point. https://www.viparspectra.com/products/pro-series-p1500

I'm a micro grower, who uses hand-built custom grow boxes with a 2' x 2' footprint, with fixed lights and adjustable support shelves. Here is a look at my system:

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/361485-oldjarhead100-asked-to-see-my-new-cabinets

Here is my current grow:

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/514772-meanwhile-back-casa-bacca-racca-a-continuous-grow-journal

[BaccaRacca]

I was doing that pondering-while-high thing when my mind wandered over to your disappointment with that last light purchase.

It's still useful. Say you wanted to do some continuous grow stuff, the light you have would be a decent choice for breeding or early veg/training. You do have the ability with that light to control red and blue channels and it might come in handy when controlling node spacing for a plant you might want to manifold.

The light you purchased isn't necessarily junk (that will be determined on how long it offers trouble-free operation), it's more like older technology. Still usable, but I'd add some CFLs to help with the white light.

BR

[WebGuyTom]

Good information and your plants look "nice". I'm growing in hydro, so I can't use the rings. I actually tried it a few years ago when I started with dirt. But with hydro, I came up with attaching cut up wire hangers across the top of my hydro container so that I could tie down whatever. I also have some of the same wires on 2 of the 4 sides for the same reason.

My thought on the extra lights as you suggested would mean ordering, shipping, blah, blah, and I'd have them about a week before harvest. The trichomes are not starting to fill yet, and are plentiful, but I expect to see them turn hazy in the next few days while on the way to going golden.
Plus the fact that I really don't have any more room.
The light for which you provided the link is perfect size and power. I've never seen one that projects the power to get down into the plant 20".

I'm jealous of the room you have and your custom boxes. I don't have anywhere near that room, nor the option to make anything that permanent....in my closet.

I DO like that light!
And I looked at the previous light I used which is 600w. That grew a fantastic Jack Herer plant! It was so much better than a 300w that I thought when I came across that 2000w, it seemed like the right thing. But, at the time, I didn't know which light company to trust. Obviously the one I chose will go on the "purge" list.

As far as using that light again, I grow Basil once in a while (once I grow a plant or two it's enough dried to last several months), and am considering one more try at growing a lemon tree (I've tried it now 3 times and all 3 have died for one reason or another - very finicky tree that Myer Lemon). I'll use that pseudo 2000w to grow the Basil and lemon (if I try again).

I tried Miracle Gro and was not happy with that at all. I switched to different fertilizer that was pretty good, but I gave up dirt just because of all the hassled - and bugs! No matter the dirt I'd buy, they all have the rotten black gnats hiding in the soil awaiting the water.
I'm really happy I switched to hydro. It's SO simple in comparison, and you never have to worry about bugs. General Hydroponics makes great hydro nutes, and the only other thing needed is Hydroguard to keep the water from growing any mold on the hoses or pumps. Replace the water once a week, add the nutes and done. I have a pump inside the tank to drain, another to pump the nutes onto seedlings (although I never turn it off even once the plant has roots reaching into the tank), and use a 6 gallon bucket to deliver the fresh water with nutes. That bucket has a spigot with a hose that drops into a hole on top of the tank and delivers via gravity in about 5 minutes.

OH! I just looked the pic of how you train your plants! That's an interesting version.
See if I'm correct.
Do you pinch the new growth at about 2 nodes until you have all 8 colas, then tie them down instead of working on just 2 branches and taking forever? I like that approach.
The way you got the 8 branches all at an early and fairly early stage is intriguing. That would be perfect for my area.

In this grow I tried to more closely follow GWE instructions. But I found the plant takes too long in recovery with that process because it's cutting the main part of the plant instead of simply pinching the new growth to create 2 from 1.
Previously I would just pinch the new growth to create 2 branches from 1, then do that again after those 2 grew a couple of nodes and so on until I had 8 colas.
Your method looks like it would be faster and, the fact that you have them all tied down at the same time is really interesting to me. That seems like it would promote a much more uniform shape during the remainder of the growth.

Thanks for the info!...and pics!