Serious issues once in 12/12, nute lock & burn, so far unsolvable - DWC HYDRO

[dudeface]

Hey all!

Brand new to the forum. I am seeking help for a serious issue ive been having for about 3 weeks now. I had a mentor who bailed out as soon as issues cropped up
leaving me on my own with zero experience. I have asked for help on other forums and followed instructions to the letter and still having issues. Those threads went dark
and no amount of trying to revive those threads worked.

strain - durban poison sativa CK
nutes - GH GMB, hydroguard, calimagic
water - distilled
Method - DWC hydro, 5 gal buckets
plants - 2
where - 4x4x6 grow tent
climate - temps 72f (22.5c), rh 60ish, res temps 72f (22.5c) humidifier and dehumidifier, filtered exhaust
light - marshydro 1000watt
air - large disc type in each bucket and another smaller stone in each bucket as well. tons of bubbles.
meters - HM tds and ph meters with a cheap chinese ec meter as conformation.

When i put them into flower mode and switched to a transition mix for the nutes, the plants both started having issues. Lots of crumbling leaves, twisting, dry, yellowing and browning
leaves at the bottom of the plants. At the top of the plants, the leaves tips turned yellow and then brown and then crumbled off. The issue is mostly affecting smaller leaves toward the
bottom of the plants. In a week or so of this, both plants stopped eating, ph falling and water level falling. Plant 2 did not stretch or grow even an inch once flowered but plant 1 grew
a foot regardless. I was expecting both plants to reach 5 foot. Plant 1 is 2.3 ft tall and plant 2 is 3.2ft tall. Both plants were 2 ft tall at time of switching to 12/12. The plants are dropping
bits and pieces onto the floor....

I was instructed by others to do a res change with ph balanced distilled water for 24 hours. I did this and plant 2 came out of it mostly, but plant 1 is still having issues. I was using a ph
test kit to measure ph at that time. Seems like the ph might have been a bit low, somewhere around 5-5.5ph. Im now keeping it between 6-6.5. My mix at this time was 2-2-2.5 ml/gal
of GMB.

They said to check the roots. Roots are white but slightly stained and feel like roots. No slime in or on the roots. There is slime on the black tubing though.

I also was told my bottle of BLOOM could be bad, so i bought a new bottle. Nothing......

I again changed the res of both plants...nothing

At this point, people stopped responding to my threads no matter how much i tried to get them to help.

Currently:
plant 1 - EC rising, Water static and ph falling by 0.6 per day.
plant 2 - EC fell overnight by 40ppm, water fell slightly and ph fell by 0.2

Feeding - as per instruction on the bottle, diluting down to 500ppm. 2ml hydroguard per gal, 2ml of calimagic per gal


Has anyone ever encountered a problem like this? Having trouble figuring out what causes the "ACID RAIN" effect as well. You would have my eternal gratitude if you can
help me save these plants!!!

[Xena]

I’m no help, I know nothing about hydro but some pictures would probably help the folks here that do know hydro.

[dphipps1020]

Have you tried more nutrients? It seems like it's a possible deficiency to me. For the pH range, I found 5.8-6.2 worked pretty good for me. I didn't have a lot of luck with my plants due to heat issues and root rot so I switched. Now I have LEDs and I'm thinking about giving it another go. Anyway, I had something similar happen and I think part of it was light penetration (leaves on lower portion), and the other part was I didn't adjust my feed to the plant's growth. In other words, as the plant got bigger I kept feeding the same amount of nutrients and ultimately slowly starving her. I also was neglecting to check the pH levels. As soon as I raised my nutrient levels and fixed the pH, she started perking up again. Of course, this was already after I had all kinds of deficiencies pop up. Not sure if that may be what's happening to yours as I was still learning about hydro, but I thought I'd mention it. And yes, pictures definitely help.

[dudeface]

heres some pics.

got plant 1 in distilled water ph balanced again. thinking of leaving it there for a while.

[9fingerleafs]

whats the ec? its definitely high i assume because of the tip burn but i dont see any major damage, only a few leaves with light bleaching just like ph swings can cause, i would aim at ph 6 always. i dont do hydro btw i grow in coco

[Mr.furley]

Have you checked for bugs?

[dudeface]

yea it was ph and ec when it first started but i have not been able to stabilize the plants. plant 2 seems ok now but plant 1 isnt feeding. plant 1 ec right now is 10. its sitting in distilled water.
i had the ec at 350 for days and it just wont drop. now it actually climbing again.

i know those photos dont look bad but it was much worse before i cut off all the death.

[gbauto]

I'm a bit confused by your ec readings.
When you say 10 or 350, I'm assuming that's micro-siemens rather than milli-siemens.
I typically run my rdwc system at 1.6mS/cm, which is 800ppm(500 scale).
It's really important to know exactly what's the ph and ec to be able to track issues.
Overall, they don't look bad.
The only other thing that sticks out is your tent temp.
LEDs will give you the best growth around 83-84 degF.
That's one of the challenges running hydro-the solution needs to be in the upper 60's to inhibit root pathogens but the room temp needs to be in the 80's.

[dudeface]

i cant find any pests and it doesnt seem to be root related either.

[dphipps1020]

Another thing I want to ask about... When you say Mars Hydro 1000W, do you mean the TS1000? If so, that's probably most of the issue if you're growing in a 4x4 because that light isn't strong enough. That light is really only meant to flower a 2x2 area. Just something I noticed after looking again.

[dudeface]

I use PPM instead of ec. 10 ppm (distilled water), 350 ppm. 500ppm is 1.0 ec.

Readjusting PH daily to 6.3ish +/- .2 both plants

Ideally i want an ec of 1.0 or 500ppm.

plant 1 (since this started and after 1st res change), i have been feeding lite at 350ppm. That number either stays stagnant or rises slightly daily. Its on its 3rd res change now.
By res change i mean draining it completely and running distilled water ph adjusted only for 24 hours. I just changed the res again yesterday and this time im leaving it in the
distilled water for several days i guess....... this plant has always been smaller and more sickly looking than plant 2... Usually it dives between .4-.7 per day.

plant 2 also tanked when introduced to 12/12 and nute transition but since its res change, its feeding and drinking with a slight ph drop daily but is alot more stable. Both plants
are still having leaves go brown and twisting mostly on the inside of the plants and outer lower leaves. This plant is currently feeding at 500ppm

i have been tracking my ph and ppm numbers very religiously since the issues started. before the issues started, i didnt have a ph meter at that time...only test strips, which is prolly
what caused the issues to begin with. now i have a HM ph meter and HM EC/tds meter. Since i bought the new EC meter i have noticed that plant 1 isnt feeding and yet its still alive
after 3 weeks of this madness.

the light is a marshydro ts 1000. i read it was able to do 2 plants and thats what i was told to buy. I also have a vander 1500 watt equiv (pink light) led that i could stick in there as well
but i read that it is useless for flowering stage.

my tent temps can reach the 80's if i leave it closed, but then my res temps shoot up to 76f...which is why i have hydroguard. however the RH shoots up to 80% when i close the tent
now adays. I just returned a probreeze dehumidifier because it wouldnt even dent that number.... So i regulate the RH by leaving the tent open. Its currently sitting at 53% and temps of
72f for the res and air. The exhaust system doesnt seem to be able to adjust the RH, even cranking it to max. Vivosun exhaust and fan kit from scamazon. But it does remove the smell

[dudeface]

Last night readings:
plant 1 - PH 6.2 / PPM 10 (readings right after i changed the res to distilled water, no nutes)
plant 2 - PH 6.2 / PPM 530 in nute solution 3-6-9 ml/gal diluted down to 500ppm or 1.0ec

Todays readings:
plant 1 - PH 6.6 / PPM 110 (PH UP by 0.4 and PPM UP by 100 overnight) water level unchanged...
Plant 2 - PH 6.1 / PPM 490 note: doesnt seem to be drinking nearly as much. was 1/2gal/day, now half that maybe...

Note: last time i did a water change into only distilled water, the plants did not vomit nutes back into the res like plant 1 is doing now. This is the first time
i have seen the PH rise on plant 1 but that prolly has something to do with it vomiting back nutes im guessing. Visually, plant 1 is a darker shade of green
than plant 2 and the flowers are much more white and some flowers are shrinking and turning rust red. plant 2 is a much lighter shade of green and the
flowers are a greenish white in color. Hard to see from the photos...

So plant 1 released 100ppm and nutes back into the res which caused the ph to go up. What nute would cause the PH to go up? That could help me
figure out which nute has it locked up.

Plant 2 seems to be doing ok now except its not drinking as much as it was a week ago... thoughts on this and these readings?

[9fingerleafs]

The pH of low ppm water is very volatile, even gas exchange will mess with it, youll fuck up your ph meter trying to measure destiled water btw. Your plants are fine, you are flushing one of them but what youe see as nutrient imbalance is most likely the plant using up lower leaves because indor lighting doesnt have very deep penetration, the gh flora trio is not perfect, lacks magnesium and adding calmag rises calcium too much. Try to keep feeding them without tip burning and ride till harvest. I repeat your plants are fine

[dudeface]

understood. ty

[Rwise]

Not only will distilled water damage the PH meter, but it cant really read the PH of distilled water until something is added to it, many think distilled water is neutral, but it is acidic.

[smoorman]

Interesting.
"pH electrodes will NOT give accurate pH values in distilled or deionized water because distilled and deionized water do not have enough ions present for the electrode to function properly. The readings will drift and be essentially meaningless. If you want to test the accuracy of your pH electrodes, use pH buffers.

Tap water usually has enough ions present to allow a pH electrode to function properly. Because of this, tap water can be a good short term (~24 hours) solution for storage.

It is important to keep mind that water (distilled, deionized, or tap) is NOT “pure” (i.e., pH equal to 7). The moment it comes in contact with air, CO₂ gas begins dissolving into it, forming carbonic acid. The actual pH, therefore, will typically be slightly less than 7.

If you need to accurately measure the pH of a very pure sample of water, the ionic strength of the water can be adjusted, without changing the pH of the water, using pH Ionic Strength Adjusters (pHISA). pHISA can be purchased from Thermo Scientific

[Rwise]

Pure distilled water should be neutral with a pH of 7, but because it absorbs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, it's actually slightly acidic with a pH of 5.8.

IDK if anyone uses DI water,