First time indoor grow

[KosarZiga]

Hello everyone.
First time indoor grower here.
(multiple outdoor grows)

So, I have 1.2m x 1.2m (4x4) grow tent with 9 frosty gelato photoperiodic plants in 15L airpots.
Grow medium: soil, biobizz light mix
Light: lumatek attis 300w
Nutrients: biotabs
And an ExHale CO2 bag

Pic from today, planted on 1.1. 2021.

I started this grow with idea of scrog.
Watched many tutorials, yt videos..

Each plant has 40x40cm of screen space.

What would be better?
Scrog or a thing called manifold.
A guy in this link says manifold gives similar yeald with much less time spent.

https://www.growweedeasy.com/manifold

What would be your suggestions?
Also considering yeald/additional vegetation time.
Im getting to a point where some kind of stress trening should begin.

Topping is probably a must anyway.
Is it true that if you top at 3rd node, when plant has 6 nodes, that it shouldn't stun the growth?

Any suggestion would be much appreciated, links with pictures of similar grow and recommended techniques would be also awesome.

Thanks!

[MagicMike66]

All plants look nice and healthy. You’re sure gonna have your hands full with 9 plants in one tent. If it was me I wouldn’t veg them for too long as you won’t won’t them getting too big as they could double or treble in size during flower. Topping is a great way to increase yield. Keep us updated with pics of your grow

[crunchyfrog]

Hi friend. Your plants look very happy so keep up the good work. Veg stage is the easy stage, things get a little more dicey and less predictable/cooperative in the flowering stage.

9 plants seems like a lot, especially for the light you have. I think the flowering and bud stage are really where the light makes the difference. You will do well in veg stage I think. I think the general rule of thumb is 50 watts (actual current draw) per square foot so you would need ~800 watts actual current draw. Also, I grew 4 white widow photoperiod plants in a 4x4 tent and it was completely full (I had ~800 actual watts however) and I probably would have been better off flipping to 12/12 earlier or growing only 2 or 3 plants. I tried quadlining (particular topping and low stress training, not difficult) and I got a very good yield I thought with this technique, over 1.5 lbs dried and cured. You can search quadlining but my method was topping above node 4 and below node 3, training the 4 branches to the edge of the pot and the allowing them to grow vertically. Trim the undergrowth along the way and support is needed to hold up the buds at the end, screen works or of course tying them up somehow which is what I did. I posted a picture of what one of my plants looked like when first trimmed/topped for quadlining as well as some pictures along the way after that.

In any case, looks to me like you are off to a good start, keep up the good work and pay attention to what your plants are telling you as you go through your grow. Good luck.

[SoOrbudgal]

Hello i would suggest not waiting long in veg to flip with 9. I'm growing 4 photos in my 4x4 with 400watts from the wall along with 2 small autos thrown in for shits an giggles. My photos i can grow them large with 4 in there and low stress training & topping they are 2months in veg. Without proper air circulation under the plant canopy is a recipe for wpm. Just don't wait long to flip would be my suggestion.

[Canuck147]

Your 'airpots' look like fabric pots to me - fabric pots need to be off the floor (riser of some kind) to allow air circulation around and under the pot.

[KosarZiga]

Yeah, they are fabric pots, my bad.
Thanks for the advice.
I have some 2x2 cm, 1m long Styrofoam bars i could put below pots, to lift them.
Or what growers usually use?

[Canuck147]

i use old bbq grates

[jamesphoto]

Newbie here. Thanks for that advice. I need to adjust mine I see...

[dphipps1020]

I'll add to this. I agree with a lot of the above. Your light is made for a 1x1m area so you may have smaller buds around the outside of your tent. I would recommend switching your plants around during flower to maximize your yield.

I would also recommend the quadlining technique for these. You can still top them again for 8 colas but you don't have a lot of room so I probably wouldn't recommend it. Quadlining should be perfect, and still give you a pretty good yield. So you'll want to top above node 4 or 5, leave the top 2 sets of nodes to grow out and get rid of everything underneath that. Tie the 4 nodes you have away from the middle and let them grow out about half way to the edges of your pots, then let them grow up.

Like the others said, don't wait too long to flip them or you'll run out of room. Look at lollipopping and defoliating techniques as well. Hope that helps. Happy growing!

[gbauto]

Based on the specs listed for the ATS300W, it outputs 690 umoles/s.
You're spreading that over 1.5m2 in a 4x4.
That means you have an average ppfd of 690/1.5=460ppfd average.
That's about 1/2 the intensity I'd be running, especially with co2.
I also agree that unless you're planning on a short veg period, it'll get out of control in there pretty quickly.
Here's an example of what I mean.
This is my 4x4 pheno tent I use for testers.
They are only vegged to about 6" tall( 5-6 nodes)-about 2 weeks, topped back to the 3rd node for a clone, and flipped to flower to check for sex and cull males.
Like I mentioned, these were only 6" tall when flipped to flower and they are 3' tall when finished.
This is what I consider minimal training-my usual grows result in a plant that's at least twice as large.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QYYvXQjYhvvoWDuG8

These are in 3 gal coco/perlite
This is using a 480w qb fixture-30w/sq ft
My main room runs @ 45w/sq ft
It will yield better with more light.

[SoOrbudgal]

Excellent replies and tips from all

[KosarZiga]

Hello everyone.
Thank you very much for answers and suggestions.

Yeah i know that light is a little weak.
But this was the best i could afford atm.
Longterm plan is that this tent and light would be for veg only.

So, I checked quadlining technique and i think i understand it.
I attached the pic where i plant to top and remove lower branches.

I will top them tomorrow.
Most of you said you wouldn't wait to long with 12/12.
I will try to post growth progress every few days or so, so you can suggest when would be best to switch to flower.

Second image attached is today's.
There is some difference between heights, not really sure why.

And yeah, they look healthy, except for one leaf. Also not sure what could be wrong, since grow medium, Nutrients, ever is the same for ever plant. Image 3.

[KosarZiga]

Defoliated everything under 3rd node.
Tomorrow i will top them.
Some tutorials recommend doing this in two step, so plants are less shocked.
When do you usually defoliate?

[dphipps1020]

I usually do it all together. Looks like you already did a couple? Looks good either way.

[KosarZiga]

Yeah i did some, to see if there will be any noticeable difference.

[KosarZiga]

Today I topped the rest of them.

Now I have a question regarding the intensity of light.
Manual from the manufacturer says for veg you should have at least 300 PPFD. I calculated this is around 13000 lux.
Which i have atm,on the corner. In the center is around 30000 lux, which should be around 690 PPFD.
I run my attis on 40% now. Should i set it to 60% now?
Will it be worth the extra energy consumption?

[crunchyfrog]

Hi friend, a botanist nor an expert I am not when it comes to maximum yield per energy input for growing in the veg stage but my lights were on/off and I just adjusted height to see where plants were happy. I would go full blast and use height, 24" is safe to start with some transition.

[KosarZiga]

At what size should i start training and tying down those 4 main branches.
And when can old fan leaves be removed. They will soon get in a way. I assume i should leave them on as long as possible right?

[MagicMike66]

I would’ve started already. If you train them when they’re young the branches are softer and easier to bend. Once they get thicker they’re harder to work with. Soft coated wire is best

[KosarZiga]

Did it. Some fan leaves are in the way.. When should i remove them?
I tied down some fan lives together with main branches and some separately. First fan leave and then main branch.
What's better?

[MagicMike66]

I remove any fans that are bigger than my hand

[gbauto]

All I can offer is that it's going to get VERY crowded with that many plants flowering in a 4x4.
This is my 4x4 pheno tent with 5 testers in 3-gal fabric bags running coco.
They were started in 3qt pots, grown tall enough to top them at the 3rd node for a clone, and flipped to 12/12 to sex them.
They were about 6" tall when flipped, with 6 stems.
This was a week ago,

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ztJL5q3bJXoDZLP79

Honestly, the only way I could manage that plant count would be a SCROG, but access would be a challenge.
If I was using a 4x4 for my space, it would have 2 nice pheno's trellised out to fill the canopy.
I would yield at least 24 oz dried from that setup.

[KosarZiga]

@hbauto, thank you very much for your reply.
So you think it would be already a time to switch to 12/12.
Yeah, my initial plan was to do scrog. But as you said, access to back of the tent would be a challenge.

[KosarZiga]

Hello everyone.
It's been a month since i planted my girls.
As many of you mentioned ( crunchyfrog, MagicMike66 , SoOrbudgal , gbauto, dphipps1020 ) , 9 plants gets crowded indeed.
I already topped them and started quadlining as suggested.
I also removed older big fan leaves since new one really started to shade them.

So my question is.
Is it a time to start 12/12 cycle?
I really don't have any idea how much growth i can expect while flowering.

Also when to stop doing lst and let them start growing up?
When main branches reach outside of their pots?

And what about scrog?
Would it take longer to veg and/or would increase yeald in your opinion?
Excess to the back is a little bit problematic for training for scrog, but i have an idea how to build a bridge to lie on and do the trading, if this would be better technic.

Pics show before after today's defoliation and additional lst.

Thank you very much for answers and suggestions.

[SoOrbudgal]

Training look real good so those are 30+days from seed. I would do 6wks old 12/12. They will recover from what you did and will have stronger bud sites. I'm not a fan of scrog i did one 1x found it difficult to treat the back plants so no more. You will not believe how much bigger they will get in 2 wks. That 1st pic those bud sites will turn upwards and stretch outward. And i feed them grow nutes until i see pre flower but that's me. Good luck were here to help.

[gbauto]

It's really going to depend on the strains you're running.
Just as an example, this is my upstairs grow.
The 1st trellis is 13" above the lid and the 2nd is 13" above the 1st trellis.
They were flipped to flower when they reached the 1st net and after about 30 days, they are at 3' above the lid.
It will get VERY crowded in there if you wait much longer.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rWY9H6dXERreGGeEA