HELP! Newbie, having some yellowing and curling issues, plus could use setup feedback

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Hey!
Sorry for the wall of text!

Edit: More succinct writeup if you don't want to read the novel I wrote lol
3 plants (all diff strains), started in jiffy pellets then transplanted into soil. Started great then after about 2 weeks, started getting sagging and yellowing, and now some brown tips/edges. Had a drainage issue I fixed, but still not improving. Following the watering guide here: https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-...g-in-a-big-pot
It's dry an inch down after a day but been waiting 2 days to be safe.
End edit.

I've grown once before (close to 10 years ago) and had good luck for not really doing much with it, but I think I just got lucky.
Trying to do things right this time but having some trouble with my seedlings. The bottom leaves are turning yellow with brown at some tips, and the leaves are curling down a bit. Not sure if the rest of the leaves are too light or if that is a good shade. All the pictures I took are pretty correct colorwise when compared to the plants under typical indoor lighting. My guesses are a nitrogen deficiency and possibly some wind burn, but I wanted to see what people think. I would also love some feedback on the grow setup in general if people don't mind

I've got 1 Barney Farms strawberry lemonade, 1 BF ayahuasca purple, and 1 Royal Queen sour diesel (all fem). Nevermind the 4th bucket; I had a seedsman white widow but it died (I think the door to the tent actually hit it sadly), and I tried to throw a Kannabia gnomo auto in there since everything else got started, but one of the 2 seeds I had didn't germinate, and the other popped and stopped.

We're about 3 weeks in since I started germ, and about 2 1/4 weeks in since they started sprouting. I germed in jiffy pods, and transplanted into soil in 5 gallon buckets (with good drain holes), sitting on home depot 16" saucers. Using kellog organics raised bed soil as it's readily available, affordable and drains well without being pure wood scraps. This stuff right here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/204643152. Same stuff I used last time (Not the same bags obviously, it's been 8 years I bought new soil) so I dont think thats the issue but far be it from me to feel confident in that.

Everything started out super strong but about a week to a week and a half ago, my bottom leaves started yellowing and curling down, and it's getting worse. Not sure if it's stunting the strawberry lemonade as thats much smaller than the other 2, but I'm pretty sure I read it's a slower grower too, so that might be fine. I initially had some bad drainage. The buckets drained just fine when I checked them outside (I drilled 5-6 1/2 inch holes in each, checking for the low points in each bucket), but they were on uneven surfaces. When i put them in the trays in the tent, even though water could get out of the bucket fine floating, the edge of the bucket was sealing against the trays so water was backing up. I still waited to water until it was dry, and I've been only watering a few inches around the plants (not the whole bucket). I propped the saucers up a bit with some strips of plywood to make draining them easier, and then again propped up the buckets on one edge inside the saucer to let the water get out. They're now taking in way more water before I get runoff than before, I assume because the lower soil isn't backlogging. They also get dry pretty fast, there is a lot of airflow in that room.

I've included some photos of the inside of my tent. The 4 inch fan/filter on the bottom is an intake since there are some litter boxes nearish the tent, and I didn't want any of that nastiness getting in. The other end of the intake hose is ziptied up to just in front of a single-room ac blowing cold air, so that helps keep the tent nice and cool. There is a 6 inch fan/filter you can barely see at the top of the first photo, pushing air out, which currently is just going into the room but I am prepared to have that blow outside if I need. So far with that AC going though temps in that room are pretty nice, mid to high 70s, even with all the lights etc going. I have a small fan in the tent for airflow that you can see, but it's currently turned off in case I was windburning the plants, as the leaves are curling down like I said. Solidly negative pressure in the tent, too much with JUST the filter so I added the intake fan (smaller than the outbound fan/filter) to help balance it out.

2 old 400w iPower lights with the ballasts outside the tent with good ventilation (one segment of the AC is blowing at them) so they arent adding heat to the inside. Both lights have brand new vivosun 400w MH bulbs for now, and I've got fresh HPS bulbs for when it gets to that point. Running 24/7 for now.

My tap water is just shy of 500ppm so I'm using bottled drinking water (not RO, as far as I can tell). I've been keeping the water PHed before watering, but after more reading I'm starting to suspect I should also be checking the runoff PH? Is that a thing? What PH should I be targeting for runoff?

I just started adding some fox farms nutes at 1/2 the strength the recommend for week 1/2 to see if that helps but didn't want to dive in if there are bigger problems.

I'm including photos from 2 days ago as well as today. I've labeled them as best as possible. In at least the old ones I took photos just after watering so you can see how much surface area I'm saturating when I water.

Thanks in advance everybody!

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Oh also wanted to add that we did have a really bad fungus gnat infestation due to an overgrown back yard, which we got rid of just before we started germinating. We had them show back up one night after the seeds had popped but before we put them in the bucket, but it was in a room across the house and I permithrened the shit out of them, just to nuke it from orbit. I have a yellow card up in the tent on one of the buckets but it hasn't seen anything new since then. I also had a hefty application of diatomaceous earth going on until I was positive they were gone. I did see one tiny grey bug on the soil tonight in the strawberry lemonade bucket, but it doesnt match anything in the pests list. It was maybe half the size of a pinhead, like a flea size, but extremely round and it was grey. Couldn't get a picture to come out so I squished it.

[alltatup]

Hi tofu: this may help you: https://www.growweedeasy.com/cannabi...gency-handbook

When you need help, it will help us if you can state the problems as clearly and succintly as possible.

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Checking that out now. I saw the "diagnose your problem page" but missed this one, thanks! I'll put a more succinct summary at the top of my post too, thanks for the heads up.

The short of it is that everything started good, but about 2 weeks in started getting some yellowing and drooping, and it's slowly getting worse, despite less watering and improved drainage.

[Willyd]

change your grow medium that almost looks like mulch the roots will have to work to get around all chunks you want something light and fluffy with lots of perlite. you said it's organic is there any sort of nute in there? if there getting nutes too early there not going to be happy you said there about three weeks that's not too early for food but if there not healthy enough it's only going to do more harm than good in my experience.how much water are they getting? check the ph of the run off if it's high then you know that's part of your problem those are big pots for little plants it's easy to think big pot lots of water dont be afraid to let them dry out. Drill a shit ton more holes in those buckets yes you have drainage now you need air. Hope some of this helps

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

So the soil is pretty light and airy actually, it looks a lot woodier on top than it is throughout because I soaked them (like 2 weeks before planting) to help break up some lumps and all the woody stuff floated to the top. I'll see if I can get a picture of the third bucket with the top scooped off so you can see what the majority of the soil looks like. I'm down to change if it still looks too rough though. There's a decent bit of perlite in there, but I can definitely add more, there's not a ton by any means. No food in the soil already, other than its amended with compost a bit (it comes that way, I didn't amend it).

They're getting around a quart each every other day. I was following the guide here: https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-...g-in-a-big-pot. So I water in a 2 inch radius around the seedlings until I get a bit of runoff. I water the plants at night, and they feel dry to the touch about an inch down by the next night, but I was waiting another day to be safe. By the second night (before I water again obviously) they are bone freaking dry well over an inch down. I am in a dry climate, plus the intake for the tent is grabbing air from an AC (so the air going in is even dryer), plus there is a lot of airflow, so thats not surprising. Before I fixed the drainage (I described the bucket sealing issue in the original post) they were getting about a cup of water every other day? I think I will try waiting a third day between waterings, unless something else seems like a better fit from the above guide alltatup posted.

I do have a question or two regarding PH of the runoff. My runoff is pretty dark brown, and I am testing PH with drops, but due to the brown color I can't really tell the color against the chart. Even if I artificially super raise or lower the PH in the runoff by adding up or down to the test vial to see if it becomes more visibly red or green, I can't really tell the difference, so I definitely can't measure more subtle differences.
So the actual questions: Is the brown runoff normal or should I be getting clearer runoff? If it is normal, is there a good way to test that with drops, or should I just pick up a pen now? I was going to pick one up after the drops ran out but if I need to I can clearly get one early.

[Woodsman67]

alltatup pointed you in the perfect direction. Keep it all simple for a first real grow attempt. It's worth it and you will learn way more. My biggest advice is water the plant as needed, not just because you think it's a good idea. Best way I can explain it is, when you first fill your pot will fairly dry soil, see how heavy it feels. When its needing water, it will feel light like that. If the pot feels heavier, its full of water so dont water. May sound dumb but literally over watering is the number one disease, pest and poor growth in my experience. No such thing as bad experience, so keep growing! Good luck and read the tutorials, they are amazing

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Thanks for the tip! I've been sticking a finger in (near the plant obviously since I'm not watering the whole pot) about an inch down to see if it's dry. It's usually already dry within 24 hours, but I've been waiting an extra 24 to be safe. I'll try the lifting trick too, although as I said in another reply I'm adding about a quart of water per bucket right now so I don't know how well my clumsy self will be able to pick up on the difference, but I'm down to give it a shot.

[dphipps1020]

So it looks to me like your soil doesn't have any kind of nutrients mixed in (or very little), since it recommends feeding "when planting and every 4-5 weeks". That could be part of your yellowing and deficiency/burn issue. Maybe try cutting your nutrients to 1/4 strength, feeding every other water and see if that clears up with the new growth. Another thing I noticed is you said you water until you get runoff? I would say maybe consider taking that down just a bit, or spreading it out wider. When mine are that size (usually in smaller pots, but it should work the same), I usually make sure the entire top is wet and water until the pot is about half moist (no runoff). Let dry for a few days before watering again, as suggested feel the weight of the pot. I've found (at least for me) that this helps the roots spread wider faster because they search farther for water when the middle dries a bit. Extra holes in your buckets are another great suggestion, put as many as you can in the bottom (without the bottom falling out), and a lot in the sides. Won't be as effective as a fabric pot but it will help a lot for sure. From what I saw, nobody addressed your setup. To me it looks pretty good. If you put more holes in the bottom of your pots, you can take the wood out from under them so they sit flat. Just one suggestion on your lighting, if I may. The reflectors are wasting light the way they're set up, in my opinion. The way they are, they're reflecting into each other and the walls quite a bit making them a bit less efficient. My thought is if you turn the reflectors 90 degrees, they will reflect more of the light onto the plants instead of each other and give you more efficiency out of each one. I hope that made sense and helps a bit. Welcome and happy growing!

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Thanks for the welcome!

Yeah it's just potting soil amended with extra perlite and some compost, as far as I can tell.

I've been only feeding every other watering (so every 4 days), think I should cut that back farther? Based on what info I can find, I'm probably going to try cutting back watering to every 3rd day, even though it seems bone dry by the 2nd day. I've been watering to the point of runoff based on the guide here: https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-...g-in-a-big-pot but I'm down to try a different strategy if cutting back a bit doesn't help.

I really like the holes in the sides idea, like a smart pot basically yeah? I'll do that tomorrow, shouldn't be too hard.

So the reflectors just have 2 hang points in the middle (parallel with the bulbs). How would I get those to tilt? Or should I just drill some new mounting holes in the reflectors around the corners to tilt them? I am planning to just LST the plants, even though I have some scrog nets from last time that feels like a million years ago now. Would you still think I ought to tilt the reflectors if the plants are flattened out a bit? I also only have 3 plants running right now obviously, so I could put them in a row and put the lights over them to get more thorough coverage this time around.

[dphipps1020]

So for the lights I basically mean put them end to end, instead of side by side, if that makes more sense. So instead of having them on 2 separate poles, put all your hanging ropes on one pole. The light will come more out of the sides of the bulb instead of the ends. So you want the bulb ends to be facing each other. I'll try to figure out a way to help you see what I mean. As for the feeding, sounds like you have it right, just need to adjust watering. If it's dry by day 2, water on day 2. I'll post a picture of the light setup shortly.

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Oops I mean airpots, not smart pots.

I think I get what you mean. Rotate them each 90 degrees (one rotates one way and the other light the opposite way) so that the bulbs are pointing at each other towards the middle of the tent, instead of both pointing towards the front, correct?

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Summarizing from my responses to different threads

Looking at the guide Alltatup posted (https://www.growweedeasy.com/cannabi...gency-handbook) leads me to here: https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-...abis-seedlings
Looking at those pictures, I definitely think it's overwatering. As I've said several times in various threads here, I've been following this guide: https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-...g-in-a-big-pot
It feels dry an inch down after 24 hours (my tent is super dry), but I've been waiting another 24 to be safe, but I think I'm going to bump it up from 2 days to 3 days between waterings to try out.

I'm also going to drill holes in the sides of my bucket a la airpot/hempybucket per dphipps suggestion, which should help it dry even better, unless someone has a good reason not to.

Also going to pick up a PH pen, so I can ph my runoff since the color of my runoff is making testing it with drops impossible.

[dphipps1020]

Yeah you got the idea. I got a picture anyway but I think you get me. I don't normally have both lights in here, just have one I'm not using yet so it came in handy.
Edit: your filter is obviously bigger than mine is so that's really the only thing to adjust to get them centered. The poles can face the way they are now, you just need the lights on one pole in the middle. May have to push the filter back or put it in the middle if you can, but it's doable.

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Cool, I'll have to play with the how a bit as my cheap ass tent only has 1 rod running that direction and it's holding the exhaust fan and filter in the back, so I've got them running on the 2 bars that go front to back. I'm sure I can figure something out, even if I just hang them off a piece of PVC I lay over the built in hanging rods.

[dphipps1020]

You really just need the one pole. So just move one of the poles with a light into the center, take a light off the one and put it with the other. Nothing extra necessary, you just may have to adjust a little. Your ballasts aren't attached so weight shouldn't be an issue, even for the lower poles. I'm assuming you have your fan/filter on the upper cross pole.

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Yeah just the way the poles are configured in this tent, 1 specific pole has to go one way, and the other 2 poles have to run parallel (because the 2 have to go under the other one), so I'll have to rotate all 3 poles to get 2 of them running in that direction (1 in the back for the exhaust setup, and one in the middlish for the lights). Not a huge deal, should take all of 20 minutes. Maybe all tents with 3 poles are that way, I don't know. I know I saw a review of the gorilla 4x4 which has 2 poles going each way (and a bunch of other shit i wish this tent had, but it also had a price tag that I'm happy this tent didn't have lol)

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

Update O'Clock!

Had some bugs in the saucers that I posted about in another thread but couldn't find anything about them, and they went away pretty quickly.

I switched to watering every 3 days and that helped a lot with the ayahuasca purple (although that looked to get nitrogen toxicity at first and then balanced out), but the strawberry lemonade and the sour diesel are still struggling. Turns out the AP was getting dryer, but still damp deeper down, and the other 2 were soaked a few inches down, and basically mud halfway down and farther. One by one, I pulled the plants and set them in a small tub, mixed in ~40% perlite, and drilled a ton more holes in the bottom as well as sides. I'm hoping this helps

Soil Before:



Soil After:


Bottom of bucket before:


Bottom of bucket after:


Side of bucket now featuring holes:


Ayahuasca purple:


Sour Diesel:


Strawberry Lemonade:

[SoOrbudgal]

Now you got the right idea. Just water and wait for new green growth. Take a small water bottle circle around the outside leaf while pouring go slowly don't drench the whole pot focus on the outside diameter for now until you see more green growth. Good save and you did well with correcting the soil.

[TofuFlavoredSpam]

TLDR; How does my training look on the big plant? Also, anything I can do to help the small plant along in comparison? Also, is it worth continuing to grow out the AP longer before flowering, or should I flower now/soon? (I realize a lot of this is opinion but I'd still like some experienced opinions lol).

Well, we lost the sour diesel. Both the sour diesel and the strawberry lemonade took the transplant poorly (I probably fucked up the roots somehow if I had to guess), but the SD called it quits 3 weeks ago, then 2 days later the SL FINALLY started to recover! It spent 3 weeks basically at deaths door then all of a sudden a whole new set of nice green leaves. Bummed about the SD but I have more seeds so not too worried.

Also picked up a PH pen, and my water just went in at 6.6 and came out at 7.04, so I'll dial it back to like, 6.1-6.3 in and see what comes out.

I'm gonna try to get something out of the strawberry lemonade. It's obviously WAY WAY smaller than the ayahuasca purple. I've been LSTing the AP a bit, but i'm running out of ideas on how to keep the parts down that are growing further away from the bucket. For training the SL, I have a scrog net I can use. Not a true scrog obviously but it might help. I didn't think of that for the AP until it was already too big.

Should I just pull the SL out of there and go into flower? Flower with it in there and hope I get like, a bud or two? Pull it out and keep it for a big plant for the next grow?

Thanks everybody!