Gentlemen only, ladies forbidden.

[alltatup]

Could that plant be...... Bruce Jenner? About to morph to female?

[FlyingDutchPaddy]

[SoOrbudgal]

LOL damn I love it !

[Mr.furley]

I am going to stall this thread out for a bit after this post.

I had found Thrips on my vegging plants last week and it could not have been better timing. Some of the plants did not like the spinosad followed by Neem oil treatment and died, it made the decision easy which ones to keep so at this point and I cut it down to 2 males.

They were both catching my eye with 1).frame and structure of nodes and growth 2) plants had a "stink" to them, they were odorific 3) hearty and healthy, survive bug treatment. 4) plants had Hollow stems, I have been told this is a sign of a higher THC producing plant.



I have to put the male on the back burner for now but will pick this topic back up after something changes.

[9fingerleafs]

just wanna add, ive had hollow stemmed plants and very hard and sturdy stemmed from the same strain and i couldnt really find that co-relation. coud be the specific strain but i saw the same thing growing mexican wild weed, some had hollow stem but they all had very poor efect haha

[Mr.furley]

Farmall
I would have to say that for the most part the plant by nature would be perpared for my cutting, it would've over a longer period of time had damage from animals and nature done to it then the short amount of time they have been gentle handled with care in a grow room.
I would look at it mostly like this, some of the plants I cut back do a good job of bouncing back without problems this is due to good genetic (genotype), or a resilient plant and something to be kept. A long recovering plant that is sickly and harder to maintain is of poor genetic and is not that desirable, There is to much involved to baby sit sad plants and I think that cutting(and other things) the plant over and over in your environment show you the desirable and undesirable traits the plant has to offer up, pheno expression. Make sense?

9fingerleafs
Wasn't to sure on the legitimacy of the clam with the other things I like about that plant, I figured what the hay and kept it. We're your hollow stem plant Males? Did you use them for breeding?

[9fingerleafs]

ohh i see what you mean now, no, they where female and i just grew the pot and smoke it

[Farmall]

alltatup 8;30? Good for you? I’ll be the one with the black tie and pinstripe suit 💑

[Mr.furley]

alltatup
We both know who truly runs the show.

[Farmall]

I ABSOLUTELY know...but I’d hesitate to write it here but it has something to do with the one who has the cat!

[alltatup]

Mr.furley The cosmic womb runs the show.

[billyboy]

Bumping out of an anxious desire to continue the conversation. :-) (Thank you Mr Furley!)

So in reading the thread here is what I am gathering:

- You can have a "father" plant. You can keep him around and clone him and not ever 'flower' him. And if you do flower him you can re-vegg the stump. Right? I suppose the first one you would have had to flower to find the desired traits and then you would keep a clone the as "new father", or is the "father" the re-vegged stump of the first male? And you just use the cloned-fathers for fresh sperm, *ahem*, pollen. Right?

So let's say what I gathered is all true. And let's say I have a mother plant with desirable characteristics. If I breed the father and the mother and get a desirable F1, can I just keep breeding the Mother and the father and produce that same desirable F1? Presumably I'd clone the mother and clone the father whenever I wanted/needed seeds, and all those seeds would be the ones I'd grow out.

In other words if I don't really make a true strain, can I just keep making a reliable F1?

[Rwise]

Yes a male can be cloned and kept as a father plant.
Reveging can be tricky, and does not always work, I just lost 6 plants trying to reveg,,, I worked them to hard, think 50% amber. I learned and will correct my mistake, mothers being created!
Ok the offspring of plant x and plant y lets call z, z would have varying traits. 25% would be 75/25, 50% would be 50/50, and 25% would be 25/75. From here select what to keep as a mother/father or do further breeding with.

[JDU]

You don't.
Your F1 is your hybrid. It will be a semi uniform mix (75 50 25 as described above will be what shows considering dominant & recessive genes) of the parents genes. F2 is where things go wild. Generations of selective breeding will stabilize & create a true strain.

[JDU]

Wait. That ain't right.
Ok genetically they will be 50/50.
With each set of genes that determine a particular trait- tall/short, fast/slow grower, heavy/light feeder, disease resistant/not.... etc & etc... there is a dominant & a recessive gene.
So if the genes you match up are both dom all the offspring will be dom. A dom & a recessive - 25% of the offspring will have the dom 25 will be recessive. Half of them will show as dom & be recessive gene carriers which means it can crop back up whenever it is bred to an individual that also carries that gene. 2 recess will be recessive.

[9fingerleafs]

yeah basically with f1 the apple doesnt fall far from the tree, even with different phenos they thend to be not very different from each other, with f2 some of the genes that passed thru with the first generation are now in both parents so even recessive genes get to manifest.
oversimplifying as an example, imagine you have a very purple plant and one with a very strong high. when you cross them the first generation tends to be very strong in vigor and growth due to the broader gene-pool but overall all kinda purple and kinda strong. but if you were to chose from those f1s two that seem both the most purple in the bunch and cross those you can get a plant more purple than the original parent. if you also chose the two strongest f1s and cross those you can end up with an f2 even stronger than the original parent. you keep selecting from both inbred lines until you have very stable traits and then you cross those two lineages again to regain vigor and homogenize the final generation you can call your strain. you keep those fwhatevers you crossed last to keep making that strain, thats what good breeders do and thats the seeds you buy from a good seed bank/breeder

[JDU]

[billyboy]

This is from NebulaHaze : Advanced Techniques

Heterosis can sometimes be used to increase yields, uniformity, and vigor of the plants. When this happens, the result is known as “hybrid vigor.” Offspring from the same parents with hybrid vigor tend to grow the same as each other; plus they can grow faster, be stronger, and/or produce bigger yields than either of their parents.

This effect will only happen for the first generation (“F1”) cross between the two inbred plants. If you breed F1 crosses together, they will no longer experience hybrid vigor. It only happens with the first cross between two heavily inbred plants.

Sometimes an F1 cross between two unrelated inbred plants can produce undesirable or surprising results, but growers are often rewarded with better vigor and uniformity from F1 crosses.

You can use hybrid vigor to your advantage once you’ve identified a great F1 cross. If two parent plants create an awesome F1 cross, some growers will keep the “mother” and “father” plant so they can use them repeatedly to breed and make more seeds of the same F1 cross. This ensures that all the offspring get to benefit from hybrid vigor, plus they’ll all grow the same as each other. Some “strains” are actually a specific F1 cross between two parents that produces a desirable result every time.


So I am just trying to think through how to get "hybrid vigor" and"keep the “mother” and “father” plant so they can use them repeatedly to breed and make more seeds of the same F1 cross". Feels there is so much inbreeding at the seed banks and seed distributors that it would be fun to try and hit a great F1.

[JDU]

That's simple enough. All you need is 2 inbred plants that click. Breed a few batches & keep clones & records. Breed the best & smoke the rest.

[9fingerleafs]

heres a visual representation of how they keep that vigor in inbred lines and what i explained in the paragraph above

[Obi-Wan]

9fingerleafs It always sounds easier than it really is is thanks for posting this visual.

[Farmall]

Glad I buy seed

[LurkingInTheGrass]

Agreed
it was such a nice pipe dream

Seeds, and clones, when I find that keeper strain.

[JDU]

Y'all lucky. It's the opposite for me. I been breeding something pretty much all my life. I been fightin the urge & I don't want to & dont have the room but all this talk is turnin me on lol. I hope y'all happy cause now I'm drawing pedigrees & plotting lightning quick stealth grows. Developing a strain sounds like a challenge.

[Rwise]

Yes it is and can be most rewarding!

[Rwise]

Sorry they have their girls around them, 3 males 3 females should be good for genetics (though I like more). I cant separate them as they are 2 plants in each pot, 1 male and 1 female, well not until I am happy I have enuf seed, then I will chop them out and get some singles.

[Farmall]

This idea would benefit from a do it yourself tutorial on how to, when and what to do... if anyone want to know how to Do something, what better place than here....

[Rwise]

My first venture into breeding was long ago and not pro. Being raised on a farm, building soil and growing vegies I looked at those seed in all the bags that we were buying and said "I can plant these"! So we saved the best of the best which the first year was 4 strains that we planted together and let everything seed. We took those seed and the seed from 3 more top shelf strains and planted those together, let them seed. From here we did not need to buy weed any longer, just plant our own, and we let it seed, selected the best (each plant kept separate) planting the best of the best. At 5 years there was no dif between plants, and we double chromosomed them. This did some weird things for a couple of years, visible mutations. In a few years they were once again stable, and some folks said "No not yours, I want to walk out of here" or "I have to drive" which I took as a major compliment!
I wish I still had that strain, we called it Tulsa Tops! But someone found the seed patch, and we got no seed,,, I hope Karma takes care of him! I would try to recreate it, but it seems one strain is now extinct.

[Farmall]

Interesting and cool story....my wife was a dairy farm family so other than cow shit and corn silage, all they grew was STINK. I find the genetics of people and plants so fascinating. I think as I pass thru the core details of growing plants, I would love learning how to actually create an genetic strain. I have only self-pollinated my lemon trees at this point....NO...NOT THAT WAY!!, used a small paint brush.

[Rwise]

If you have plenty of smoke then why not play with genetics a bit? I have several I will be breeding with, looking for a GG4 to make seed with a BB3 male. I have several landrace strains to play with also (have to get some Panama Red). Once set up I will not "have" to buy seed ever again! (more trading of clones to come) Breed inside grow my stash outside, thats the plan!

[Farmall]

Love that plan. Too far removed from the process...I need to start reading on how to get started. If it sticks in my brain, I assure you I’ll go full throttle