Commercial operation advice needed

[Serapium]

Hello all. Thanks for this amazing resource that you've all curated. I've learned tons and tons so far.

I live in Oklahoma, where medical cannabis was recently legalized. I am in the beginning stages of opening a commercial cultivation facility and was wondering if anyone is aware of an online resource similar to this one that is dedicated more to commercial operations than personal grows. Anyone know of a resource like that?

That said, most of my questions will be answered through forums like this one where individual techniques are on display to learn from. My unanswered questions will be along the lines of:

What should I look for in a facility? Is there a general break point in square footage where the systems required for successful cultivation become much more complex?

Lighting: Initial investment vs return on investment over time

Strains: To focus on a few strains or to diversify your crop significantly

Integrated Pest Management techniques and systems

Personnel management

Sources for legal and accounting advice

etc etc etc....

[NAKEDGARDENER]

This is one concept I have thought of for some time and next year I am purchasing a 45 foot long 20 wide and 20 ft high tarp tent which I plan on putting panda cloth lining on the inside. My grow will be of no more than 8 plants per grow but pot sizes will be over the 40 gallon range,

The first thing I did was to friend the energy of my local pharmers market, of whom I am listed as a patient, and ask him all my pertinent questions. This might be one way you could also go since they have to grow themselves I assume, unless they can purchase from local growers but I don’t know how this works here yet other than the patient number rule as a commercial grower.

Good of luck on your venture.

[Canuck147]

Yeah good luck with your venture.
Welcome to this forum. I have Ed Rosenthal's -'Marijuana Grower's Handbook' - a lot of this book is geared towards commercial grows, from germination to harvesting. Lots of updates are available online.
Next thing I would do is check out online various cannabis producers in the Oregon and Washington states. Call them - find out square footage, what kind of lights?etc. Call enough and your bound to come across a stoner that wants to brag and talk about their operations.

And this is where you have the opportunity to use somebody else's hindsight. Ask them what they would do differently if they were to start over again.
Good luck.

[hycheese]

A longtime member asked this same question a month or so ago, you may want to read his thread and ask about any updates to his quest.

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/240160-hemp-farm-full-scale

[Redwasp]

My brother in laws cousin opened one this year in Calafornia. I can tell you that due to the stringent building codes and the California laws on how they have to operate it is very very expensive. He spent millions upon millions in 22k square feet of grow space. Then you have the processing rooms etc etc etc. Plus have you looked into what the license will cost? It's not cheap. But he is making great money so far.

How long have you been growing?

[D.A.A.S.69]

Redwasp, yeah, I'd like to be legal, for once in my life anyway.

[Redwasp]

D.A.A.S.69 every one around my state and your state is legal or will be. Surely they will fix that. They dont want to lose the tax benefits I would suspect. I'm pretty sure you will be next. Then maybe us. Where I live they can now write you a citation just like a speeding ticket for 7g or less. But not sure they actually do that.

[Redwasp]

Oh if your first I will just live at our place in Hattiesburg.

[Chefbjy]

If you really want to do something so large scale I suggest reading some books on it. Hopefully you're experienced with growing mj on that kind of level. There are a lot of people that jump into businesses without knowing what they're doing. There are some very educated people in this site but you will find more answers by educating yourself. Don't get me wrong, we're glad to help here and answer questions. We love pictures too. But I would highly recommend a library over this site for your safety,success,and well being. Here's a book you can start with that I found available from this site. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1453719598...a94fc030f7cafb good luck.

[Chefbjy]

https://weatherport.com/guide-to-starting-a-commercial-cannabis-grow-operation/

[gbauto]

Agreed. I suspect that there would be a very steep learning curve successfully propagating on a commercial scale. I'd definitely plan on a huge amount of research before jumping in. Hope it all works out for you.

[changeofpace2014]

Hello all. Thanks for this amazing resource that you've all curated. I've learned tons and tons so far.

I live in Oklahoma, where medical cannabis was recently legalized. I am in the beginning stages of opening a commercial cultivation facility and was wondering if anyone is aware of an online resource similar to this one that is dedicated more to commercial operations than personal grows. Anyone know of a resource like that?

That said, most of my questions will be answered through forums like this one where individual techniques are on display to learn from. My unanswered questions will be along the lines of:

What should I look for in a facility? Is there a general break point in square footage where the systems required for successful cultivation become much more complex?

Lighting: Initial investment vs return on investment over time

Strains: To focus on a few strains or to diversify your crop significantly

Integrated Pest Management techniques and systems

Personnel management

Sources for legal and accounting advice

etc etc etc....

You might want to have a good look at the switch gear and panel capacity, maybe find a good commercial electrician for input. I would suspect that would be a big expense to add needed panels, transformers and a huge amount of lighting circuits, setback panels ect. From what I see on the news up here in CA the big corp grows have hired people who never grown weed but come from other horticulture industry ( or at least the ones interviewed).

Observation of the news clips the light are not low but still up in the ceiling like regular hi bays and no body was wearing any kind of sun glasses in the interview or employees walking around tending plants. Just saying they are about mass production, would be curious to see actually how efficient there commercial grow really is.

[Serapium]

Redwasp fortunately in Oklahoma the law is way, way different. No limit on facility size or number of licenses being granted. We're shooting at a modest 1500-2000 square foot facility with tiered veg and separate flower rooms. Licensure here is very easy as well, and costs just $2,500.

[Serapium]

Chefbjy thanks for the comment. I have a wide knowledge base of experience (though to date its not been a legal undertaking so I'll not elaborate). Let's just say I've done my... Um... 'research'. I'm well versed not only in different techniques but also in genetics and various cross-breeding implementation strategies. Let's just say I have adequate... Um... Assurance ... That I can achieve close to or over 1g/W.

[Serapium]

changeofpace2014 thanks for the input. I've seen that type of footage as well, and all I can do is shake my head. They obviously don't understand basic things like lumens Our initial intention was to go with LED to minimize the electrical work that will need to be done up front and capitalize on energy efficiency rebates available from the power company. With a 2, 000 square foot facility we should be able to run off what the building already has. Part of my original post was considering Hid and whether over time your ROI might be higher. I doubt it would be given the additional cost of building upgrades, A/C demands, and replacement bulbs, but I asked just in case someone knows something I don't.

[Redwasp]

Ask DrPhoton about that light and wattage use etc.

[furrysparkle]

I was the one who posted about a hemp farm about a month ago, one thing I must urge is find your local politics around it. Who ever is even near the rule making in your area make buddy’s with them. Seriously I’ve been talking to my senators about the plant and they are so fucking clueless about terpenes, techniques to increase yields or even basic considerations like greenhouse growing.

Beyond that I’d recommend starting with as few strains as your market requires. For me I’m going to use a single strain of hemp and try to sell it cheap for patients and as expensive as I can charge to dispensaries.

Also take some community college courses on basic business topics.

[Serapium]

Sorry, I didn't figure out how to comment directly below a post until now. Feeling stupid for responding to these posts with separate, new posts

[DrPhoton]

Here is a list i made looking at the most powerful & efficient LED fixtures currently available. Cheap LED fixtures just do not compare to gas discharge at all, they have their place for small scale grows but they are most definitely, less efficient.

Fluence

Spyder X Plus
PPF 1500 umol (True Measurement)
2.3umol per watt
$1500
$1 Per umol

Spyder X
PPF 810umol (True Measurement)
2.5umol per watt
$900
$1.11 Per umol

Spectrum King

SK602
PPF 1376umol (Calculated)
2.15umol Per watt
$1349
$0.98 Per umol

SK402
PPF 924umol (Calculated)
2.15umol Per watt
$779
$0.84 Per umol

Kind LED

K5XL1000
PPF 850umol (True Measurement)
1.3umol Per Watt
$1900
$2.2 Per umol

K5XL750
PPF 560umol (True Measurement)
1.3umol Per watt
$1400
$2.5 Per umol

Black Dog

Phytomax2 1000
PPF 1600umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$2250
$1.4 per umol

Phytomax2 800
PPF 1280umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$1949
$1.5 Per umol

Phytomax2 600
PPF 960umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$1549
$1.6 Per umol

Phytomax2 400
PPF 640umol (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$1099
$1.7 Per umol

Chill LED

Gen2 800
PPF 2000umol (True Measurement)
2.6umol Per watt
$2000
$1 Per umol

Gen2 600
PPF 1900 umol (True Measurement)
3umol Per watt
$1499
$0.8 Per umol

Gen2 200
PPF 615umol (True Measurement)
2.9umol Per watt
$599
$1 Per umol

NextLight

Mega
PPF 1400umol (Calculated)
2.15umol Per watt
$1695
$1.2 Per umol

Mini
PPF 255 (Calculated)
1.7umol Per watt
$595
$2.3 per umol

California Lightworks

SolarSystem 1100
PPF 1700 (True Measurement)
2.2umol Per watt
$1599
$0.94 Per umol

SolarSystem 550
PPF 888umol (True Measurement)
2.2umol Per watt
$799
$0.9 Per umol

SolarSystem 275
PPF 439umol (True Measurement)
2.2umol Per watt
$489
$1.1 Per umol

Here is gas diacharge technology for comparison

600watt HPS
PPF 1100umols (True Measurement)
1.8umol per watt
$200
$0.18 Per umol

1000watt HPS
PPF 1400umols (True Measurement)
1.4umol per watt
$250
$0.18 per umol

1000watt DE HPS
PPF 1700umol (True Measurement)
1.7umol per watt
$300
$0.17 per umol

600 watt Metal Halide
PPF 780umol (True Measurement)
1.3umol Per watt
$200
$0.25 Per umol

315 watt Ceramic Metal Halide
PPF 491 (True Measurement)
1.5umol Per watt
$500
$1 Per umol

As you can see, these high end LED fixtures are more efficient than traditional gas discharge, but the cost per umol is much higher. Which is why large scale commercial growing is still mostly gas discharge. Its very difficult to recover investments for higher priced fixtures over a rational timeframe. Which is why, until the cost per umol comes down (which through haitz law it will, eventually), gas discharge is still top dog for the time being.

If you just want the best of the best, then i recommend either fluence, california lightworks or nextlight. This is because of both their great efficiency but also cost per umol. Although chill LED has great efficiency, these fixtures are more approapriate for large scale cultivation. Not small scale. But they would still do well if used approariately.

Please check my articles if you have not already, there is plenty of good information surround light technology and plant science.

If there are any further questions, please feel free to ask.

[Serapium]

Sorry, I didn't figure out how to comment directly below a post until now. Feeling stupid for responding to these posts with separate, new posts below

[Serapium]

furrysparkle I'm all over that. Have made friends with the guy who wrote SQ788 here in OK and has his finger on the pulse so to speak.

[Serapium]

DrPhoton Thanks! That's great info. Given our budgetary considerations I'm hoping that we will qualify for some energy efficiency lighting rebates from our power company. I have some feelers out in that regard, and that result will have a large impact on which fixtures we purchase. If I can source high quality LEDs at a fraction of the cost of other lights then it'll be a no-brainer in terms of maximizing ROI.

[DrPhoton]

If you can get that rebate and or reduced cost of fixtures, then LED may be an economical advantage for you.

[Serapium]

DrPhoton one of the biggest considerations for us from an investment standpoint in terms a lighting choice is the ancillary costs. Additional expenditures on ramping up the available amperage, extra costs associated with HVAC and Humidity control, and total cost of ownership over a five year period to include bulb replacements, fixture maintenance, and electricity costs. In other words, from a business standpoint it seems to be a more complex issue than just cost per umol.