alltatup oldjarhead100 I really recommend this book if you guys haven`t read it but interested in this particular aspect. Obviously it`s soil so not chemicals or hydro but it`s really fascinating and I learnt a lot.I believe this is why my girls bounce back so quickly as I have a 3 tier approach to watering which I formulated after reading this.
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9fingerleafs I will look online as my eyesight means it`s easier to read books in print but if I can`t find them, mind if I give you a shout? Thanks for this info, mate. Appreciated. -
oldjarhead100 Hope you find it useful mate. Added a super soil receipe below which I might try later this year and run as a comparison between that and compost tea grows. Be interesting to see the results
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Ya rich ur right on with the organics. I changed to one big bed this time . My first run is bout to be over but I think my bed is just getting going with good biology. Only teas and water. Getting some clones ready to go back in the same soil. I'm goina inoculate with imo4 that I got almost finished. Nice bondage by the way. Happy gardening.Comment
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Yeah that living soil is the ticket, along with teas of all sorts, I like worm compost and molasses the best though ,but I have heard bat sh-t was good too, just never tried it, yet.The buds just smell and taste better to us anyway. But probably not to everybody. Plus your soil is so cheap and easy to make. -
redbeard I really don`t think you`ll be disappointed. This is the receipe I found and sadly have been unable to credit it to the guy. Personally, I think it`s the business. There is also a receipe for super soil here as well D.A.A.S.69 Here is the article....Hey guys!
Brand of Guano's are Sunleaves.
Well I been using a lot of info found here in this organic soil forum and a few other posts here @ The Farm, in Skunk Magazine and at their Indoor Forums; stuff written by the Rev. I think some of the info I have been using was also written by him here, but under another handle long ago...the stuff seems to have the same writing style. Recently I purchased the book Teaming With Microbes, which everyone seems to recommend on this subject, haven't finished the book yet though but worth the $24 so far.
I'm in organic soil. Mostly Fox Farm Ocean Forest and Light Warrior. Recently I have been reusing soil by adding Worm Castings, Mushroom Compost, Greensand, Azomite, Rock Phosphate, Bone Meal, 10-2-1 Mexican Bat Guano, Fox Farm 5-5-5 dry fertilizer w/ myco's, Epsom salt, and Dolomite Lime.
I mostly don't start feeding anything except Great White's myco fungi (every 14days) for about 30 days in these rich soils. I use RO water. And use water-only about every other watering. For teas, I been doing about every 8-12 days apart. Most of the tea recipes are really the same or at least same ingredients with different Guanos depending on Veg or Flower Cycles and nute needs.
Basic Tea
• 1gallon RO water
• 1/4c Worm Castings
• 1/4c Mushroom Compost
• 3ml Maxi Crop
• 1tbl Molasses
• Optional, Great White about 2 hours before end of brew.
Brew for about 22 hours with airstone and dilute the tea down to about 3-5 gallons --A lot of folks only add 1 extra gallon of water, but I like to go light on any kind of nutes. More than 22-23 hours and the foam starts to go away and the tea's BACTERIA MICROBES are starting to not be as happy, time to use it or add a little more molasses and worm casting to prolong brewing.
The above recipe is just full of micro-life and little over-powering nutrients. From what I understand (have not tested) it can be feed literally every watering.
Now let's start adding in some goodies for plants that are needing nutrients.
For Veg Cycle
• 1gallon RO water
• 1/4c Worm Castings
• 1/4c Mushroom Compost
• 3ml Maxi Crop
• 1tbl Molasses
• 1tsp-Heaping 5-5-5 Fox Farm Peace of Mind (w/ Mycos)
• 1-2tbl Peruvian Seabird Guano 10-10-2 (5.5% of that N is water Insoluble.)
• 1-2tbl Mexican Bat Guano 10-2-1 (9% of that N is water Insoluble.)
Brew for about 22 hours and dilute to 3-5 gallons of RO water. I don't need a lot of Veg-Teas personally with my setup, but have used this tea when seeing the need of food after about 30 days in "fresh" soil.
For Bud (Early to Mid Cycle)
• 1gallon RO water
• 1/4c Worm Castings
• 1/4c Mushroom Compost
• 3ml Maxi Crop
• 1tbl Molasses
• 1tsp-Heaping 5-5-5 Fox Farm Peace of Mind (w/ Mycos)
• 1-2tbl Indonesian Bat Guano .5-12-.2
• 1-2tbl Peruvian Seabird Guano 10-10-2
Brew for about 22 hours and dilute to 3-5 gallons of RO water. I use this tea about every 2-3 waterings.
For Bud (Past Halfway and Late Cycle)
• 1gallon RO water
• 1/2c Worm Castings
• 3/4c Mushroom Compost
• 5ml Maxi Crop
• 2tbl Molasses
• 1tsp-Heaping 5-5-5 Fox Farm Peace of Mind (w/ Mycos)
• .5-1tbl Indonesian Bat Guano .5-12-.2
• .5-1tbl Peruvian Seabird Guano 10-10-2
• 1/4tsp Soft Rock Phosphate
Brew for about 3 days to promote the FUNGAL MICROBES and dilute to 3-5 gallons of RO water. I use this tea about every other watering.
Additional Thoughts and Findings.
• If I don't have a tea brewed and feel the plants need some food I have been using Fox Farm Big Bloom at 7ml per gallon and/or 2-3ml of General Hydro's CaMg+.
• Bacteria microbes are more preferred for Vegging plants and first half of flowering.
• Fungus microbes are more preferred for Flowering plants.
• It is hard do a tea wrong. Keep it bubbling, don't brew too long when looking for Bacteria Microbes, use immediately, don't save the extras. And these recipes can be used loosely it seems; you can even add all kinds of dry amendments like the ones listed at the top of this post that I mentioned adding to reused soil. Examples: Add Extra Azomite, a little Green Sand late in flowering, or some Dolomite Lime for Cal Mag, and so on...
• FYI - There are fungal recipes for late flowering where you actually grow and put a little fungus (mold) into the tea. Read up on it.
• When mixing the tea with water; Strain off most of the nute-additives from the tea for smaller plants or just mix it all in for more mature bigger plants, no need to strain. I have done this multiple ways now and for different gardens but dipping with a pitcher into the tea via a 5-gallon bucket is pretty good because the tea can be mixed-up each time you get some. Or fill water jugs partially up and top with the tea. I like the 5-gallon dipping the best, I don't strain anything out, but don't always use the super thick stuff at the bottom, But have though Just depends.
• I try to flush for 3+ waterings before harvest by making the plain RO water run out the bottom of the pot.
• Whether you agree or don't agree I have not been PH'ing my teas or water for a while. Couple reasons why. RO water's PH doesn't read right and will mess up your PH meter. RO Water is ph7 basically (after it sits for a little while) and has no ions (or something like that) for the meter to read. You can test the PH of the tea to find out if it is higher in fungas/bacteria. PH up and down solutions will kill the micro's you just gave life to. There is an excellent thread in this forum about PHing teas/organics, just read the whole thing to get the "eureka's" at the end of the thread.
• The expensive EC Stick I bought not too long ago is now worthless with teas. Serious LOL. You can brew up a tea that is black as night full of goodies and the EC meter says 0.
• I have been using Great White brand of Myco-Fungi recently and LOVE it. There is a huge difference in root balls when I transplant and cut down. I do the Great White at about 1/2-3/4 recommenced strength because someone here at The Farm mentioned he didn't see any noticeable difference using full strength and he actually tested the stuff for the Urban Gardener article a few months ago...plus the stuff is expensive lol. Been using it about ever 14 days until about 3-4 weeks before cut-down. I have been adding the Great White to the tea at the tale end, about 2 hours before use of the tea. I have had very good luck adding Great White to the Basic Tea Recipe up above for small plants.
• *THIS* is the most important thing right here that I personally had to learn and just didn't "get it"; True Living Organics *is different* than using all organic based bottle nutrients. BIG DIFFERENCE! Example: If you get these much-wanted microbes to grow in your soil and then use organic nutes via premixed store bought bottles, you will kill the live microbes! I just didn't get this like I said. I would use Fox Farm soil's having beautiful picture perfect plants and then pour on a bottled nutes and instantly my plants looked stressed, not happy and I couldn't figure out why my "organic" grows didn't work out right. I was confusing two totally different types of organic growing.
Seriously guys, these teas have made my plants SO much more healthy. Still some strains needs more or less of some things here and there, but overall plants love the live mico's. You know when your plants are just so happy that all of the leaves are pointed upward? Well with these teas the plants will look like that pretty much everyday (like their suppose to) including even late in bloom. There are so many more white pistols growing out of maturing buds. And like I said before, the smell, taste, and looks of the bud all increase. We just grew buds that had major purpling that I almost had never seen in the strain where it was only a hint before if grown good.
Anyway if you made it through all of the info thanks for reading my recent findings. I tried to add in as many "eureka's and ahhh-ha's" that I learned on my newb way over from so-called organic-bottle grows. I'm no expert yet and like I mentioned earlier all of this info and much more is on the net for research, just search with these 3 keywords; Organic, Compost, Tea. Heck there are even some good videos on Youtube on the subject!
And if anyone wants to chime in anything please feel free to, really.:talking
OK I'm spent, time to go look at the garden and make clones! imp:
Thanks for the info CT. And good luck to you with your entrepreneurial endeavors. Simple is very good thing and would love to see what you come up with.
I use Subcools Super Soil recepie:
8 large bags of high quality organic potting soil with coco and Mycorrhizae
25-50 lbs. of organic worm castings
5 lbs. of Blood meal 12-0-0
5 lbs. Bat guano 0-5-0
5 lbs. Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0
¾ cup Epsom salt
1 cup Sweet lime (Dolomite)
½ cup Azomite ( Trace element)
2 Tbs. powdered Humic acid
Would be interested in knowing what you think and if there is anything you might add or take away. Feel free to PM if there is info you would rather not share with the public.
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Pic 1 shows Chemdog on day of defol and Pic 2 shows her now 4 days later.
Bud Bud...Pic 3 before releasing the restraints and Pic 4 after. Height has roughtly 3-4 inches to go and that should occur within next 4 days then flip. Good solid grow with good stems. Happy with this lass.
Purple E....What a pleasant surprise. Growing really nicely and will flip alongside Bud Bud.....Pic 5...just left her be as nought needed doing to her. Very pleased.Last edited by PaganRich; 08-14-2018, 05:15 PM.Comment
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Thanks kingfish happy with this grow so far. Boring bit`s coming up in the flowering tent however got loads of cuttings to train so will be content....hopefully though there`s a couple of girls I might buy to try near winter time as an anti Xmas treat to myself. There`s a lot of different things gone into these girls and I think this is the first time I`ve really felt able enough to bring it all together. Nerve racking sometimes in case it all goes tit`s up and you end up looking like a right pillock. Stay mellow mateLast edited by PaganRich; 08-14-2018, 12:15 PM. -
oldjarhead100 Pics 1 and Pics 2....I remember you saying you defoliate like me....thought I`d been particularly brutal but pleased how she`s taken it in her stride with not a flicker. Take care, mate
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Well, things are trundling along nicely...
Chemdog...Now Pic 1 shows her 5 days ago at flip post defoliating. Pic 2 shows her now. She has grown 2 inches in height which necessitated altering light. I`m keeping height between tips and glass on cool tube to around 20" but I`m mucking around with this a bit as I think it might be too close when the second light is booted up and overlaps...not sure yet as some other environmental factors are at work as well. Anyway, small growths spouting along lower nodes above frame rim.
Pic 3 shows Bud Bud...slower growing but stockier. I might veg this lass to 20" `fore flipping as my gut feeling is stocky and short...she`s in the far corner
Pic 4-Just letting Purple go as she seems happy as larry and height is staying fairly level. Will flip next 2-3 days for sure. Pleasantly surprised.Comment
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Looking nice. I've done hard defoliating similar to that with good results. Good article on the organics. I did supersoil last round with good results. But after seeing dudes doing notill 8 rounds in the same soil growing uuge healthy plants I was in. I do real similar teas I just make most of the stuff my own fish fertilizer,imo ,fermented plant juice and such. Lots of worms, cover crop . Also the sprouted seed tea. Happy gardeningComment
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Day sir . So the fish wouldn't be a replacement for ur guano. And I'm no expert. Im trying to head more in the Korean natural farming direction using fermented plant juice and extracts. The guano is something i as well want to get away from just because I can't make it . I'm going to supplement with rock phosphate and a fermented extract I made with a small cantelope , couple of bananas, and a cup of cooked chickpeas. Fermented in a dark glass container for a week by mixing with equal part by weight brown sugar. I also ad labs that I also make too all my fermented things. Then u take that juice and use it a like 1000/1. I've made poke,comfrey,aloe ,chicery. The sst is just sprouted corn I use organic popcorn because it's the easiest non gmo thing for me to easily get. Sprout ur corn till it's got .250 to .500 tails . Then blend up I add a little bit of humic acid and bubble for 10 mins. I use the sprouts between organism teas. Corn in veg,alfalfa and barley in flower. I also do alfalfa,Mung beans,radish and others. I'm getting most of this from this dude named Chris Trump he's got a YouTube channel. I'm using his recipes for most of the stuff I'm making. Sorry for the rambeling order I'm shitty at typing and such. Happy gardening
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PaganRich
Check out this video. These guys got my attention with sprout teas.
"Life is not about being dealt a great hand but playing a poor hand well"...
•Roots Organics over kindsoil in 5gal fabric pots
•600w hps supplement w/Kind LEDs during flower
•4" can-fan w/can-filter(carbon)
•14,000btu air conditionerComment
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Californiakid Thanks for that CK apart from the tee-shirt, I f##king hate tye dye and teeshirts like that, does my nut in...and Freebird by Lynytd Skynyrd which induces a pathological urge to destroy whatever speakers are nearby with extreme prejudice and gratuitous violence...apart from that, I`m dandy.
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Haha I wholeheartedly agree on both accounts.
Man, I l started reading "Teaming with Microbes",
Such as easy read for my brain. So much information presented in a easily understood manor.
I'm soaking corn at the moment and brewing tea. This winter I will be asking you questions about fungus tea when I get to that part.
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Defoliation is rumbling around on some topics and in a constructive, positive but challenging way. I like that. Respectful...
Chemdog M...Day 6 after defoliation and flipping-So, in light of the conversations floating around...Pic 1 6 days ago, Pic 2 today...Height and width has increased, stems are thick, leaves healthy and just had a non feed compost tea. Now, if anyone tells you that defoliation will always cause the physical collapse and stagnation of a growth then refer them to pics because that is clearly not the case here.
Bud Bud...Coming in around 16" from soil to tip Pic 3 and not as level as I`d like, some growths not being favoured as much as others so adjusted Pic 4 and Pic 5 from above. Stems are thick and I think she`s gonna be like a female dwarf, bearded, squatt and wide so will keep her vegging til roughly another 4" . If I remember correctly, this was how she grew 2 yrs ago and you can see the Delhi Friend trait in her. ( alltatup Female dwarves are traditionally portrayed as bearded, small and wide and as such is not a derogatory label to human females though I have dated some very Spanish galleon type lasses in my time and whilst it often felt like I was physically climbing Mount Everest I have to say I found the experience as challenging and frought with danger as if I had verily climbed said rocky outcrop instead of voluptuous flesh. Just thought I needed to clarify that in case you thought I was referring to women as a whole which I`m most definitely not!).
Purple....Did nought, she`s doing fine and will flip within the next 2-3 days. Pics 6 & 7....Finally, Bud and Purple both had non feed compost teas as wellComment
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alltatup Stirling actor Albert Finney. I`m a bit confused, I though Tom Jones was a porn novel like Fanny Hill or O, not that I`ve read any of these or seen the films except Fanny Hill and that wasn`t what I thought it would be about which, considering where I was, was lucky in a strange way. -
PaganRich, what's the name of that British tv comedy show , where there is 5-6 regular cast members, and one of them is a Vicker, whatever that is, but that is a funny show.
We used to get it on Public television, but it don't come on anymore.
Later
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Purple E is shooting up and now at 17inches so decided to flip as I reckon she`ll easily double in height… Pic 1 shows her before being prepared to be flipped. Pic 2 shows the amount of leaves I removed. Pics 3-8 show her post defoliation. Pics 9-10 show her in the 12/12 tent. She is resting a-top an inverted mesh basket to provide height until she stretches a bit. This shows nicely just how much Chemdog has grown height wise within a week as well as leaf and width growth.
Pic 11 shows Bud Bud a day after her drink and looking damn fine though slightly slower than the other two.
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alltatup You are definitely the light that shines through the cataracts of my eyes, young lass. I was going to explain this but then thought, sod it, no one will notice. Evidently I under-estimated you woman. That won`t happen again. Chemdog didn`t produce small leaves. You know those small leaves that aren`t fan or sugar...don`t know their name.... Chemdog was just big fans. So, I expect fan leaves to be the major leaf grow throughout with a limited if any number of smaller leaves. Purple had both and so, I left smaller on which I couldn`t for Chem. May I compliment you on your observational skills, lass. Impressed Did that answer your question? Budsites? Haven`t decreased them.
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D.A.A.S.69 Victor Meldrew `One Foot in the Grave`...got the box set...absolute classic, laugh out loud......that mate, is the British...it is so like us and blokes walk around like that nowadays. Very fashionable. I used to wear a flat cap when I was a lad in the 80`s...Peaky Blinders style....not for long as I looked like a right pigeon racer. That sky is 6.30 pm Summer time sky....says it allLast edited by PaganRich; 08-17-2018, 12:35 PM.Comment
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The evolution of British humor I believe is more class based, and something of a trickle down from the upper classes. It is a more sophisticated and controlled. Whereas american humor is more brash, and stemming more from a working class perspective. Although Russel Brand puts out some in your face ass wrecking material. This is classic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVg5u91ozC4
The origin of humor, and the smile is well explained in Quest For Fire. The smile originated as a grimace of pain. (Holy shit Desmond Morris is 90 years old)
Rich your plant photos are images from a medieval torture chamber. I didn't know there was a British Inquisition. I know your technique is necessitated on stealth, and limitations on space, but give those poor fuckin plants a little freedom! They look to be in great pain.Last edited by starramus; 08-18-2018, 06:51 AM. -
starramus I can appreciate your concern mate but there`s nought wrong with growing them like that. Looks worse than it is. If they were in a seriously disadvantageous state, they wouldn`t be capable of bouncing back so readily and strongly as they have or do and which I`ve evidenced pics wise on a few grows now. Nor would they look so green and healthy so we`ll have agree to disagree as I see this method work time and again. Indeed, just looking through the pics on this grow and you will see consistent robust growth during and after vegLast edited by PaganRich; 08-18-2018, 07:32 AM. -
Of course the methods you employ are for the most efficient exploitation of the plant. But, "I feel their pain". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ9Lf50wWD8Last edited by starramus; 08-18-2018, 07:50 AM.
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Bud Bud had an unexpected growth spurt post watering the other day and this caused me a height problem with my light and the other girls. However, it is 17-18 inches above soil and so I flipped for the greater good. Got a feeling she will stay low & stocky but who can say. If she doubles I`ll be happy. The hard part is over with. Now its flowering, watering, feeding and one robust defoliation and that`s all I`m planning for the next 3 odd months. Whether it stays just like this will be interesting.
Pic 1 shows her before I did anything. Normally I would have rotated her and left for two days to even up the left side
Pic 2 defoliated and Pic 3 shows leaf mass removed plus some cuttings
Pics 4-5 show the manifold t-junction
And that`s it, she`s in the 12/12 tent now...thanks for following the veg stage and hope you enjoyed itLast edited by PaganRich; 08-18-2018, 05:57 AM.Comment
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Recovery responses to defoliation:
Chemdog M-Pic 1-8 days post defoliation I believe
Purple-Pic 2-2 days post defol and coming along nicely
Bud Bud-Pic 3-Defol yesterday and good bounce back from it
Pic 4 shows my veg tent with my new lasses. Soon to add LSD and Kripple Roulette
Forgot to say, they had first fungal compost tea feed today as well. House now stinks like a farmLast edited by PaganRich; 08-19-2018, 06:56 AM.Comment
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Californiakid I should have the seeds through in a day or two. Do you want to start the page when you`ve chosen and I`ll join in when I get the seeds? Or do you want me too and you jump in. Whatever works best for you. That should get things started. That sounds exciting what you`re talking about above -
PaganRich
Lets start after September 5th, I will be out of town for a few days prior. You start the thread and I'll jump in with my choice. That will give me time to decide. Although I'm leaning towards the PE x WW.
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I booted up the 2nd 600w to allow Chemdog more space due to height stretch...Pic 1
Close up of Bud Bud...Pic 2
Close up of Purple E...pic 3Comment
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PaganRich, Good Morning Mate, how's your hammer hanging this morning ? How was your weekend ? You sure got your plants looking very nice.
What kind of Warrior is that in your picture ? And about what timeline were they around over there ? He looks very vicious to me, although I bet it was fun living back then, I bet they didn't live much longer than about 40years old.
Cheers.Cfls for a week or two
315lec for everything else
Dug up Ms.topsoil, with perlite added
36x36x63 inch tent.
6inch - exaust - intake fans an scrubber
Smart pots
Molasses
AutoflowersComment
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those are some good seeds I hope they are not going out of Business -
oldjarhead100 Will be looking to get Kripple Roulette later on in the year so hopefully, it should resolve itself and I get it. Is my fav seedbank
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Weather has become mega mild, humid and overcast with temps being forced up to around 30C in my main tent. Been trying different things to keep the temps below 30. I`m only running the dehumidifier at night during lights off, etc. Lights at 20-22" above girls but even with good strong airflows and periodically wafting the tent like a demented Punkah Wallah it has been a tad tough. Heat is coming down outside now and today things are becoming easier however the girls are showing the effects of some heat stress though considering what they`ve been through I`m very pleased so far. I`ve downgraded feeds to every third watering or once a week now to prevent potential nute burn, the exchange of CO2/ Oxygen due to airflow oscillation is robust and AC isn`t an option. Think the seaweed and molasses I use to brew a non feed compost tea watering solution is also helping with recovery. Feeling remarkably sanguine even with the vast plague of flies squatting in my house at present. I suppose I`m just enjoying growing for growing. I don`t really care too much about yields. As long as it`s not embarassingly minimal or shite I`m chilled as I produce enough to meet my needs so it`s nice just to grow without the worry. Bit like life really, my aim is to go through life so slowly it starts going into reverse .
Pic 1 shows Chem M....It`s been a fortnight since she was flipped and a week to go before next and last defoliation. Lights are going up as she does but I reckon the heat has hit her
Pic 2 shows Bud Bud on the left, Purple E is on the right. One week post defoliation and flip.Comment
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