COB LED light suggestions?

[Bartholomew]

Inuart88 Thanks again for the suggestions, but you lost me when you said viparspectra is garbage. The results state otherwise. It seems to pull it's weight.

[Bartholomew]

I'll definitely keep the AgroLED in mind. Could you please share a link to your journal, the one with 8 days into 12 12?

[Campesino]

I have used the Viparspectra for a couple grows now. I get decent results with them, but certainly do not disagree with DrPhoton
I am pretty sure I am close to maxing out the possibilities with them at around 5-6 oz per light. The lights are my limiting factor...

I am very interested in upgrading lights, but also in keeping my marriage - hopefully I have my priorities straight there

Think I'll go check out those AgroLEDs ...

[Inuart88]

Bitching I love seeing people going towards the new stuff but it does cost some $

[Inuart88]

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/200417-grow-journal-3-back-for-more-4-30-18

[DrPhoton]

If you want a replacement for gas discharge technology, those cheap fixtures like galaxy, vipar, mars, roleadro, or unamed chinese brands are not what you are looking for. The technology has not advanced enough to make a cheap fixture perform as well as a gas discharge technology. The fixtures i recommended to you are the best that LED technology has come to replacing 1000w gas discharge. And only three of them are actually comparable with respect to photon efficiency. Fixture efficiency is quite literally directly correlated to fixture cost, as to manufacture a fixture with higher photon efficiency requires more materials which adds cost to the overall product. Most manufacturers know that and so to provide an attractive price to consumers, they sacrifice on the fixtures efficiency. Which is why most cheap LED fixtures are less efficient than gas discharge technology. Campesino has two 200 watt v450 fixtures and would likely require another one or two fixtures to compare with a 600watt HPS. Which has about 1.7umol per watt efficiency. The vipars look to have around 1.2 umol per watt photon efficiency. But even then i might be too generous.

COB technology has their advantages for DIY applications, but i garrentee you they are not more efficient than traditional diode topologys. Which is why none of the commercial fixtures use them because they could not obtain the level of efficiency that they have with chip on board configurations.

[Inuart88]

I know my answers weren't good enough but 10 bucks says this one is right on dangerdan! and the agroled suns come in a 1.5umol per watt efficiency had to do it out =D so two pretty much replace my 600 watt hps =D

[DrPhoton]

The agroled looks good, i wouldnt complain with that fixture. From memory on your thread, they were real badass looking too ^.^

[Inuart88]

Tried to push Barth towards them =) no go seems like=D. if you havent check my journal the 8 day growth is amazing seriously. I wish there was more information on the Agroleds But i guess i will have to provide it =D

[Bartholomew]

DrPhoton Thanks for the explanation. Kind of understand now. What are the three ?

[DrPhoton]

Fluence, Blackdog, Chil LED.

[Inuart88]

I looked fluency almost bought the spider x plus but decided against it after doing my research per watt umol and what I actually needed spider would be over kill was reading with out the fluency control panel burning plants is extremely easy but I am also assuming you guys have never tried any of the top brand less or new ones I should say

[D.A.A.S.69]

The people that I see that use cobs are not commercial growers, they just grow a few plants in tents, same with Vipars ,But they get great results with those cobs in way they grow their plants, in tents an small places.
All you gots to do is check-out autoflower. net, all look at all those beautiful plants grown with cobs, that BigSmo, makes. Hundreds on journals to look at.

[Inuart88]

I can’t wait to finish my grow journal day 1 flower. I bet these lights are going to wreck plan on doing 7 plants next time and getting 2 more monkey fans so I can have more foliage etc. I have never used a leave spraying nute I wonder which is good. The AgroLED fall under the commercial lights and is expensive but you get what you pay for with a company who has been in the weed industry for 25 years.

[Bartholomew]

Okay,

So I've been doing some research and stumbled upon Optic 8+
It has a good price right now. I'm thinking of getti 1-2 of these.
What do you think?

I probably can't go wrong with this one and it will last me for quite a while before another upgrade is necessary.

https://opticledgrowlights.com/products/optic-8-cob-led-grow-light-500w-uv-ir-3500k-cobs?variant=52914318916

[Bartholomew]

Single ended bulb***

[DrPhoton]

Its got a good price and its size and output better fits the small grower than the more powerful commercial sized lights. Theres a 275 which would be equivalent to two of the lights you have now. So you could potentially have two 275's or if you really want to ball you could have two 550's. Certainly worth considering.

[Bartholomew]

Wait what? 275? 550? You lost me

Edit: Nevermind, you were responding to chipolino.

[DrPhoton]

• Wow really? They are two times less powerful? Bummer.
  To clarify, I'm using a 1000W Supeplant Agro HPS bulb. 150 000 lumens, 2100K, 1359 umols(?)
  
  Was also looking at black dog newest phytomax 2 1000. That one's too expensive for sure as is the Kind K5 Series XL1000.
  
  DANGERDAN How does a 1350 Vipar compare to my 1000W hps bulb?
  http://www.viparspectra.com/goods.php?id=88 + More Options

1350 does not provide photon flux values but i would guess it to be around 1.2umol per watt. Which would place it around 720umols compared to a 600w gas discharge 1100umols. Yes the 1000w single endeds typically get around 1300-1400umols.

[Bartholomew]

hmmmmmm.

Okay. Sorry for dragging this topic for way too long but I think I just need one more suggestions based on the following criteria.
4x4ft or preferably 5x5ft coverage, around 1000$, full spectrum or close to it.
I believe UV and IR are worth the investment since it's not snake oil...or?
About efficiency...I mean, I think I don't care about efficiency. It's not like they'll be less efficient than hps or am I mistaken? I'll gladly ditch it for flowering power. The only other important thing is temperature. Surely the less efficient leds don't compare to hps heat?

Everyone! Forgive me for my ignorance! *seppuku*

[DrPhoton]

hmmmmmm.Okay. Sorry for dragging this topic for way too long but I think I just need one more suggestions based on the following criteria. 4x4ft or preferably 5x5ft coverage, around 1000$, full spectrum or close to it.

Il have a look later on for any more products around that price point.

I believe UV and IR are worth the investment since it's not snake oil...or?

I understand at a deep level the photomorphological processes involved with plants and light. The study of light responses of plants has been ongoing for well over two centuries. Bruce bugbee leads the research for light and plants. His research is what i consider the material for what would be the bible on photomorphogenesis. With his research there are few questions i have that are unanswered. Infrared light has no photosynthetic capacity because of the red wall problem. In which energy wavelengths longer than 700nm cannot provide enough energy to complete the photocycle. Infrared can activate certain morphological responses, called the shade avoidance response. But there is no need when ideal morphology can be influenced by energy inside the photosynthetic bandwidth. Where far red can be useful is with flower induction, by reducing the flower induction time by activating key photoreceptors responsible for flowering. The level of intensity required to have a physical effect would need to be quite high so as to counteract the balance of PR and PFR. Far red diode technology is about half as efficienct as Red, Blue, White diodes. Which means the potential savings from shortened flower induction is heavily counteracted by its lower photon efficiency.

Ultra violet has much like infrared, poor photosynthetic response. Due to the fact that light harvesting complexes do not harness much energy with wavelengths longer than 400nm. Its also well known that ultraviolet reduces photosynthesis in plants because of its damaging effects on photosystems. There has been the notion that ultraviolet light can stimulate the production of resin and thc through stress responses. This is not the same as photomorphogenesis but through other mediators such as thigmomorphogenesis. UV-B has been shown to increase the THC concentration in cannabis, when used during the mid to late stages of flowering. However one aspect that really goes against the use of ultraviolet is its very very poor photon efficiency. With it being about as bad as incandescent. This is why california lightworks use T8 fluorescents for UV supplimentation. If you really want to be confused read my post here about the stokes shift with light.

My articles explain the important principles between technologies. Comparing light technologies explains what aspects of LED light technology that should be used to asses quality and performance. Such as diode model-type, wattages, equivalent wattages etc. My article on grow light technologies also details important aspects such as efficiency, distribution, photosynthesis, photomorphology. I hoped that these articles answer most questions. Infrared and ultra violet fall under the same conclusions in my assesment on light quality in that article. However i will look at making this more clear with respect to other wavelengths such as ultra violet and far red.

About efficiency...I mean, I think I don't care about efficiency. It's not like they'll be less efficient than hps or am I mistaken? I'll gladly ditch it for flowering power.

Depends what products you are talking about. If you are referring to cheaper products like the vipar and other amazon-china lights. Yes, they are less efficient than gas discharge. For the products we have been talking about such as the cob you cited and the california lights. Then they are more efficient than gas discharge.

The only other important thing is temperature. Surely the less efficient leds don't compare to hps heat? Everyone! Forgive me for my ignorance! *seppuku* + More Options

With LED light products that are less efficient than gas discharge, they will output more heat per watt in comparison. But generally overall they put out less heat because they typically have a much lower output capacity and therfore power consumption. Comparing watt for watt they would surely put out more heat. But the key difference here is that LED fixtures can direct their heat away from the canopy with passive or active cooling. But then you can do the same with gas discharge with vented hoods. Ultimately room temperature problems would likely still be a problem if replacing like for like power consumptions. The more efficient fixtures that exceed 1.7umol per watt are the only fixtures that truely produce less heat watt for watt.


Please dont feel intimidated by my elongated response, simply stating what is and what is not did not seem to be enough for you. So i replied with extensive detail as such.

[Bartholomew]

No worries! Thank you for The detailed response!

It’s not that I don’t want to read your articles, I just haven’t gotten around to reading them. I’ll probably do so in the near future when I have time to sit down and take time for myself.
Thanks to the discussion I’ve come to understand different types of led technology a bit more, at least in the growing context wise. Hence the nooby questions from different angles.

so basically I’ll win in every category if I choose a quality though more expensive led fixture.

[DrPhoton]

No worries and yes, the more expesive but higher quality fixtures is the only way to go if you want an equivalent or superior fixture to gas discharge technology.

If there are any more questions dont be afraid to ask.

[DrPhoton]

Its important to point out that UV-B has indeed been shown to be beneficial for cannabis. It seems my previous research was insufficient and will need further looking into at a later date. However my assesment for its use for LED technology is still unchanged but i have changed what i had original written on UV so there is no further confusion.

"UV-B has been shown to increase the THC concentration in cannabis, when used during the mid to late stages of flowering. However one aspect that really goes against the use of ultraviolet is its very very poor photon efficiency. With it being about as bad as incandescent. This is why california lightworks use T8 fluorescents for UV supplimentation."