My 1st Grow Journal - 3rd crop, coco grow.

[MadMike]

After posting questions and pics in other growers journals I decided I should have my own.

Setup:

3' x 4'x 4' room

Lights -
2x 300w Viparspectra LED
1x 600w Viparspectra LED
2x 70 HPS

Using General Hydroponics Nutrient System

Started plants on 10/31/17

Tried out manifold technique for first time and it really slowed things down for a while there. Followed tutorial pretty closely so maybe to be expected.
Growing as a SCROG so manifold benefits aren't that strong, but it gave me a better sense of how to prune/shape them for the next grow so I think the experiment was well worth it.

Switched to 12/12 on 1/5/18 so Day 19 for flower.
(Actually running 11/13 hours and have been glad to have the 1 hour extra when my work in the room runs late - + 2:00 am.)

Plants:

2x Skunk #1
Jack Herer
Lithium OG Kush
AK 47
White Widow auto

The white widow started to foxtail a while ago and I think it was from keeping it on the early and middle bloom feed schedule too long. Running a lean late bloom schedule for it now and actually pinched off the tops of a few of the buds and they seem to be filling out more now. I could say a lot about that little plant... But it's not really my focus.

Right now the runoff is reading around 5-5.3 for everyone except the Herer, which is at 6.0.

Temps have been great lately at 76-78 degrees day and night. I have a heater in the room so it keeps the temps even. Though last few days it has been dipping into the upper 60's at night which I was stoked about. Checked today though and day time had sprung up to 86 degrees. Why the shift, who knows? My lung room is adjacent and since it's a basement grow that room (big closet really) tends to stay cold but it might be varying enough with the weather to cause the fluctuations. Dialed down the thermostat just a hair and will see how it looks tomorrow.
The heater has a cardboard trough it blows through to keep the air off the pots until it mixes with a fan stream at the back of the room. Works well.

Humidity as been between 39-45% or so. Happy with conditions overall!

Defoliated on 1/24 but was a touch conservative on it as I think I have over done it in the past. I've seen some amazing grows here that seem to have a dense canopy. Plus, the low height of the room means I'm keeping the plants real low so it's more of a carpet canopy.

Started noticing some Mg deficiency in the Herer two days ago. Checking the pH chart I see that above 5.5 starts to cause a drop in Mg uptake. **slaps his forehead** I've been trying to raise the pH... So, tomorrow I start trying to lower it I guess.

Symptoms are in center of room which has a crazy light exposure. Reading around 900-100 micromoles. I know that's high but, 1. I can't raise the light, and 2. I need that intensity for the rest of the room. I'm going to make a shade cloth canopy for the center of the room to tone that down a bit. I suspect the Mg problem is showing more since the plants are a little stressed from the light in that area.

I'd point out which plant is which in the photos but it's hard for me to tell since I have trained some stems far from the pots and they interweave. When I want to check, it takes me a couple of minutes to trace a bud back to it's source. Easiest one is AK 47 front left.

AK 47 is paler than the rest of the room and I thought it just needed more feeding. But it's showing a touch of tip burn (like the rest of the room) so maybe it's more phenotypic. Not sure, but it seems to be doing well in any case.

[MadMike]

First pic is a new symptom I'm seeing on a couple of the Lithium buds - hairs browning out. New within the last two days. Reads about 1000 micromoles near it, but other buds getting similar light don't look similar. Still, it's a little intense for light.
Last two are the Mg symptoms from the Herer. Again, in center of room so highest light levels. I clip problem leaves so I can track if the symptoms are spreading.

[UrbZ]

Thats lithium og kush correct?


Nevermind that I saw it in the OP and had a case of cerebral flatulence.

I think you are fine on the coloring. I was researching that strain as I was interested to buy some seeds.

Several of the pics I saw had some similar patterns on buds. Early on and throughout flower.

[UrbZ]

You can see similar coloring all through this bud with extremely dark orange hairs, almost red. They probably take a while to get that dark so I could see it showing up early.

[MadMike]

Interesting. That's a little reassuring. I'll be keeping an eye on it and let you know how it progresses.

[MadMike]

And this is my new shade cloth for the center of the room. Light levels there are now around 750 micromoles. Much more reasonable.

[D.A.A.S.69]

Morning MadMike, I thought you already had a journal going, I guess not, but I know I used to see your posts, an we communicated a few times, lol.
Man your plants are looking great, to me. Those brown pistils possibly coming from the intense light, but that shield is a great idea, you get your PH out right an smooth sailing, at least i hope, you know what your doing, good luck.

[Campesino]

Looking good MadMike !
I like the shade cloth! seems like the perfect material

[MadMike]

Yah, you've seen me around D.A.A.S.69. I figured I should stop posting my pics in someone else's posts.
@ Campesino - The cloth is a support material for making molds with resin. (I have had a history with moldmaking.) It's perfect since it has a light weave. But I have used cheese cloth before and it works quite well in a single layer.

[DingusKhan]

Attaboy, MadMike. Nice work.

[MadMike]

Thanks.

[Canuck147]

Looks real good. But won't that shade material thingie trap moisture underneath it? If it does, it will only encourage mold.

[MadMike]

The shade cloth is has a pretty open structure and the air flow in the room will keep the humidity even so it won't be a problem. I've used shades on other plants many time in the past - non-cannabis mostly - and it doesn't create a problem. Good question!

[MadMike]

I'm going to take a chance and experiment with adding some humic acid to the water tonight - no nutes.

The humic acid is TeraVita SP-90 purchased on Amazon. 90% humic acid - 100% soluable. Instructions on the bag are to mix 8oz to 1 gallon to make a concentrate. Then it says for soil drench, 1 oz/gal water. That sounded pretty strong to me.

Did some math on their mix suggestion and it comes out at .0625 oz of humic in the water for the soil drench. So, not that much after all. Comes out a touch higher than 1/4 tsp./gallon. But I'm always annoyed with these kinds of instructions since I'm not sure if they mean 8 oz by weight OR volume -- why, why don't we use metric?... For some materials they often come out close, but an 8 oz cup of lead isn't going to weigh 8 oz if you get my drift.

Because I'm worried about some crazy reaction - like rapid nute burn or similar, I'll try 1/4 tsp of powder in 3 gallons with a 1/4 tsp. of Yucca Extract and see...
I have used the Yucca occasionally and I'm not convinced of its benefits. Seems like you need to add a lot more to get a real surfactant boost from it. I've used a tablespoon in 3 gallons before. But I'm going to be more conservative on this one.

Let you know how it comes out.

[Campesino]

I don't think you have much to worry about with it. If it does amazing things I'll follow your lead.

[Obi-Wan]

When measuring dry/solid ingredients think 8 oz. by weight, when measuring liquid ingredients think 8 oz. by volume.

[MadMike]

That makes sense and I guess I kind of knew that, but not everyone has a scale to measure dry weight. But... I do have a scale that could handle that so I suppose I could have gone that route, and should have. Doing the revised math now.

[MadMike]

After good prompting, I broke out my scale and did some conversions. Accuracy of of my measured weights are probably +/- 10% or lower.
The breakdown:
(oz is by weight, not volume)

Terravita SP-90 recommendation application rate:

8 oz / gal concentrate
1 oz concentrate / gal for soil drench

That makes the application rate 8oz / 128 oz = .0625 oz / gallon by weight.

Measuring the mass of the powder I get:

1 tbls = 8.5 g = .3 oz (by weight)
1 tsp = 2.8 g = .09 oz
1/4 tsp = .7 g = .025 oz

So their recommended application by volume: (.0625 oz. / gal) / (.09 oz / tsp) = .7 tsp. (dry weight) / gal
We can round that to .75 tsp / gal

I applied .25 tsp / 3 gal for an application rate of .08 tsp / gallon.
A very conservative application indeed!

I'm going to continue this application rate for the next 2 waterings/fertilizing and that will give me a total application of .25 tsp (about 1/3 the recommended dose).
That gives me some time to observe and then I'll wait for the next 3 waterings/ferts and observe some more. If things look o.k., I'll repeat the cycle and see.

One thing this is totally unknown is if their recommendation is for applying the humic acid at every watering or just once for the entire grow. That is kind of important so taking it slow is even more important to me.

I will say that the humic acid is incredibly potent at tinting the water. Since I am measuring pH using the GH liquid pH indicator, the tint makes it a little more difficult to determine what the pH is. I don't think I could add more 1/4 tsp. humic to a single 3 gallon bucket and tell what the pH is with any confidence. But man, when you drop in the powder, it looks really trippy as it starts to dissolve. Pretty cool.

[MadMike]

@campsino
Fun background. And what a great excuse to travel!
On the variables front, for test plants it would have to be just one variable. Especially since it's hard to keep everything else the same. I'm particularly worried about getting 15-20 cuttings that are close to the same size -- and I should take >20 to account for problems with rooting. I think I will have to have one plant be a sacrificial and take all the cuttings from it at once. Still have lots of time to think about it.

@Dinguskhan
If you could point me to one of the closet scientists it would be great. Gives me some time to learn from them before I dabble myself.

[DingusKhan]

Hey MadMike, I mean in addition to the old-school expert growers here on GWE, I love it when someone with technical training gets to share. For example Campesino with his advanced studies upon advanced studies, being able to contribute graduate degree level advice.

I think there are a doctor or two lurking about who can't be too public about chiming in on chat boards, but still are trying to help here. Electrical engineers, man, it's like fucking comic Con around here sometimes.

Either way, new school or old, this is the shit.

[Campesino]

DingusKhan
I'm flattered!
I have been so happy for all the advice and community here. Happy to contribute what I can

[MadMike]

OK. Ordered seeds today for the next round

Purple Kush
Blueberry
Girl Scout Cookies
Diesel Berry Cought
Negra 44
plus 4 free seeds - a surprise!

I've been spending WAY too much time here over the last couple of days so I'm going to drop out for a few days and come back with an update on my plants. I gotta get some non-plant stuff done.

[MadMike]

Just a note to say I purchased the seeds from Seeds Supreme and after looking at Sensible Seeds, I think I should have gone with them. They have much more enticing promo's. I have been happy with Seeds Supreme though.

[MadMike]

Day 24 of flowering:

I am now greeted by the sweet smell of flowering cannabis when I open the room. My wife says she can smell them in other rooms of the house.

I've managed to get the pH in a better spot with plants in the 5.2 -5.8 range. A little tricky on the accuracy since reading a liquid indicator tube. Got to improve on that for the next grow.
Mg deficiency seems to be clearing up. So that's good. Herer is the one at 5.8 or so, so I would like to get that down a touch more.

The AK47 continues to be paler than the other plants. I now think it is from too much light. It really suffered from light intensity in the last grow. But maybe it's still too intense for it. I've dimmed the veg setting on the ViparSpectra over it and turning the 70w HPS away from it. I think I'm seeing some improvement in color.

I've done another watering with the dilute humic acid (ratio above) and I think it's increasing the tip burn. Looks much stronger today. I fertilized on 2/2 (2/3 normal strength) and again on 2/6 (1/2 normal strength) so that might mean the humic acid is increasing nute uptakes. (Speculation of course.) Still, the tip burn is really ramped up in the last two days.

Saying that, I'm seeing some leaves in the canopy that look a little pale. I'm getting some pale and yellowing under the canopy (expected) but up higher seems a touch off to me. I can't see feeding them over the next two days at least so it's a wait and watch situation.

Extra fun tidbit - while climbing over the plants several weeks ago I knock a tall branch of one of the skunks right over. I just propped it back up (no tape or splint) and figured it would be interesting to follow. In essence, I did a supercropping on it but without the rolling between the fingers to break up the fibers. It's doing fine now and showing the classic bulging in the stem. I've include a few pictures of it.

I'm now wondering when to shift to the late bloom nute regimen. I always feel like the formal schedule listed (in weeks) isn't the best guide. My plants seem to want to go longer than the 65 day mark by a lot. I harvested too early last crop. So I'm waiting until I start seeing a heavy browning in the pistils. Right now I'm loathe to cut out the trickle of N since the leaves look they need it.

I put descriptions below the photos to id them.

[Campesino]

Looking good! and great camera work.
So much here I am tempted to comment on, but I only have a few minutes so I'll limit myself to these two
1. I am also doing pH with the liquid indicator. My issue is that I am red/green colorblind. I can tell yellow really well, but a test asking me to tell you if the yellow is slightly green or slightly orange is exactly targeting my weakness. I should also get a meter!
2. Shifting to late bloom is a dilemma and I agree it may be better to read your plants. My plants have not "stretched" since day 28, but they were still growing vertically until then. Tomorrow is day 35 and I had been planning another Mid Flower application, but I am going to at least transition to late flower nutes. I am going to hold off the final flush until they are ready. So basically I am planning to pause on week 11 (Late harvest/Ripen) Nutes if a pause is needed.
3. I Said two... As we were discussing elsewhere, did your RH drop? I got some new leaf burn from a drop in RH. Not saying it isn't Humic...

[DingusKhan]

As a fellow habitual impatient premature harvester, I encourage your patience in letting your buds mature. If you can force yourself to leave some of them on to finish and get milky and amber, just a little less glassy.... and set that shit aside for a good cure, and save it for a really good insomnia night...

Maybe we can get a little more comfortable letting them finish, or scrape up the funds to get a bigger light!

[MadMike]

@campesino
Color blind for a color indicating test. That is a trick. I have trouble seeing the true color of my leaves because the HPS yellow some areas and not others. I have to shield areas and sometimes take a leaf sample just to make sure.
The comment on humidity is really helpful. That didn't occur to me and there have been some swings lately. I wanted to check here before I work in the room tonight to see how I should adjust the nutes.

DingusKhan Thanks for that input. I'm going to really hold back on the harvest time. I want to see more amber trichs. Still a ways off from there though.

[Canuck147]

Nice looking forest.

[MadMike]

Thanks!

[MadMike]

Quick update:

I just noticed that it has been 5 days since I gave the gals any nutes. "Oh how panic hath blinded the simple grower!"
So they look a little starved as you might expect. Some yellowing of leaves, but not overly so. But it does seem as though growth of the buds has slowed as well. Hoping no permanent stunting.
I was planning on going half strength on mid bloom but after realizing the latency, I went with full strength.
The runoff pH is between 5.5 (AK47) and 4.5 (one of the Skunk#1's) so I fed them at 6.0.

On a side note: I haven't mentioned the White Widow auto in the back corner mainly since it's just a 'see what happens' plant. Surprisingly, I started it with all the other plants... and it's still not done. Haven't seen an amber trich on it yet. Kind of crazy. It did some foxtailing a while back from too much N I believe but it's settled down again. It's just running on late bloom nutes, hiding in the back field, and doing it's own thing.

[Campesino]

Happily, the humic acid should help them recover

[MadMike]

Day 50 for flowering - Excuse the long post but it's been a while.

It's been a bit of a hairy ride for the last couple of weeks. Some stresses on the plants stress me out, but I'm calmer this grow than I was for my last.

Room temps and humidity have been great. Temps 78 day, 68 night -- Humidity 39% day, 50% night. A little high on the night humidity but VPD chart shows I'm swinging through the optimal zone - a little too dry and a little too humid for flowering. Not worried about rot at all though since they get a good dry period as well.

pH has been a bit of a bugger. All plants are running in the 5.0 - 5.3 range except the 2 skunks which are at 4.8, and 4.5. I've switched to pH water and nutes at 8.0 and past experience from last grow says this will take a while to get those numbers moving. (I know 5.0 - 5.3 is good for coco. I'm just trying to maintain that at this point. The skunks were at 5.5 only a handful of weeks ago...)

Lighting... I've been hitting them too hard. I'm seeing amber trichs showing up on the most exposed leaves but new growth shows lower counts so turning down the lights seems to be helping.



I turned off th e HPS over the AK 47 since it won't seem to green up. I had been turning down the veg intensity on the 300 w Vipar over it but I don't think that was enough. So off goes the HPS. But seeing browing trichs on other plants has convinced me to pull the shade cloth (which was definitely helping a lot for the center) and cut out the veg on the 600 w and go bloom only.

I've been reading the micromoles with a Hydrofarm Quatum PAR meter and readings for most areas of the room were in the 650 - 725 range. From my understanding that should be fine. The light intensity looks fine to my eye as well. But perhaps the meter is reading too low. There is no way to calibrate it since it 'self calibrates' so I can't really speak to it save for observing my plants. I'm going to be aiming for 600 for the center of the room but didn't get a reading before the lights cut out on me. I'm curious to see how the corners will be reading. It does seem that areas that have been lower on the intensity scale are looking healthier, albeit with smaller buds.

I've been running mid bloom schedule up until yesterday and have switched to late bloom schedule. Looking at the trichs, I maybe could have switched over a week ago but I'm too inexperienced to know for sure. After my 5 day nute drought, giving them a full nute watering give them some real pep in growth! But now I think I've been going to heavy -- of course -- and tip burn is fairly heavy.



So I'm going to be ramping that back going forward. I've also been going without water or nutes for 2 to 2.5 days, mainly because I've been really busy. They have been drying out quite a bit in between and seem to be o.k. with it. I'm not comfortable with it and I'm in a better place to monitor the soil water content better. I'm wondering if that is helping drive down my runoff pH but I don't think so. Last grow the pH just dropped out when they started flowering and I'm in the same position now.

As for the plants -- the buds are definitely bigger and denser than my last grow so that's really good. But because I browned some trichs from the light (pretty confident based on height and location in room) it's a little tricky to get a real sense of how they are progressing. I'm seeing a real blend of clear and 'mostly' milky with a scattering of amber on most of them. The AK 47 showing the fewest ambers, the Lithium showing a scattering and the Herer showing plenty in the middle of the room. Expected... Buds on the perimeter show very few ambers and I think they represent the progress best. I sample from a sugar leaf about 2/3 down on a bud since they are a bit older and give a better sense of overall progress I think.

I'm not letting those ambers get me jittery since I think I've harvested too early in the past,. I think I have 3 weeks to go but things could change quickly. I'm aiming to seem ambers about 25-30% of total trichs for harvest. Guidance on this is more than welcome!

The Mg deficiency in the Herer continues to spread despite the pH coming down in the low 5 range and always adding cal/mag to every watering. *shrug* I'm at a bit of a loss to explain it except it is really only showing in the center of the room and I believe the light stress is bringing it out. I'll see how it goes after turning down the lights.



Also of note, the front skunk shows very strong purple-ing of the stems. Most of the plants show some purple in the petioles but this one has purple veining down the stems all the way to stump.



Reading, it could be a sign of P deficiency but it could also be phenotypic. I worry about it though since the pH for for the skunks are so low. Not much I can do except keep trying to get the pH up. This skunk also has been having lower leaves yellowing much more quickly than the other plants. Most haven't been shedding leaves at all -- just a couple in the last week. So that also seems to say something is amiss with this plant.

On a curious side, the branch that got 'super cropped by accident' has one of or maybe the largest bud for the skunks.



Room placement and height might be playing a role here but damn if it doesn't look like it's pulling ahead. I'll be exploring super cropping next go around for sure.

I've labeled all the photos to help you sort though them. I left some of them at full res since you can see the trichs pretty clearly.

[Campesino]

Supercropping For the WIN!
Absolutely, my supercropped colas are outpacing all those that weren't. The most recent supercrop (flower day 21) is the best. It will be hard to stop me from going supercrop crazy during the stretch on this next grow too.
I have not had similar pH issues. The last time I checked it, runoff was a touch higher than what I had been giving them. I think I'll check again!
Sugar leaf trichomes turn before the buds. When it gets close I plan to nip small bits of the bud to check.
Finally, I've been watering twice a day several days this week. Glad you'll be able to keep them wet (and update your journal!). It may help the buds swell even more, but looking Good!
3 weeks huh looks like we got a race.

[MadMike]

I think I'll do some supercropped on some branches on each plant and see how they compare. But I will say the the skunk branch is in a corner so it's doing really well considering the light it's getting.
Thanks for the tip on the leaves turning faster than the buds themselves. I'll see what I can spot when I take photos along the way. I forgot that I can see a lot of detail in the trichs when I zoom in on the details. And I forgot I have a macro lens for my Canon. I don't use it much since it's a little bit of a pain to focus in with it's shallow depth of field. Maybe I'll try some focus stacking just for fun. I've never done that before.

[Campesino]

All my money is on the supercropped colas!
Do you have an optical microscope? I am going to snip a sample and scope it tonight.