JohnDope
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exactly - a photo is worth a thousand words
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HELP! Seedlings dying over and over again.
- Thread starter Gabi
- Start date
exactly - a photo is worth a thousand words
I'm back with a couple of pictures.
My plants continued to show said symptoms and it got worse and worse. Like I said, it just looks like overwatering. I gave them water every 5-6 days, not too much at once.
Right after watering the leaves started drooping, even though I didn't give much water and the coco was very dry. Then after a day the leaves went up again, actually looking good for a day, and then they started drooping again. No matter how long I waited, the leaves always stayed very firm, but after a week of waiting I was afraid that they're actually drying out, so I gave them a little water.
The new growth is very bright and the back of the new leaves are reddish colored.
I recently killed the plants and took a look at the roots. They were white. I actually teared the whole thing apart and only found a little brown spot on the long taproot in the middle. So I suspected that it was basically the main artery which somehow got damaged and the plant wasn't able to uptake nutrients or water as a result. Unfortunately I didn't make pictures of it.
I'm always starting my grow with fresh coco to avoid pathogens. I start giving a light dose of nutrients once the first true leaves appear.
Now I'm growing a new plant and it's already showing the same symptoms which all of my countless plants were showing since last October. It may be hard to see in the picture, but the new growth is already starting to get very light in color with reddish hues and overall growth is very slow.
This time I was extra careful to not give her too much water. I give about 15ml every three days when I can't detect any moisture.
I never used perlite with coco and at the moment I didn't have any. Next time I will be adding perlite as well.
I feel so dumb to be honest. I'm not considering myself an expert grower by any means, but I'm growing for quite some time now and I never ran into anythng like this, nor did I ever have problems with overwatering.
One last thing that came to my mind is that maybe my ph test kit may be off. I've always been using those indicator drops to test my ph and I never had problems with that. Maybe for some reason it isn't accurate now and my ph is actually too high? Can those symptoms indicate a ph that's too high?
I'll try lowering the ph just a little bit to try and see. It will take a few days to show any changes I guess.
Here are the pictures, the drooping plants are dead now and the younger seedling is my current one. The newest growh in the center is actually white, which is hard to see in the picure.
My plants continued to show said symptoms and it got worse and worse. Like I said, it just looks like overwatering. I gave them water every 5-6 days, not too much at once.
Right after watering the leaves started drooping, even though I didn't give much water and the coco was very dry. Then after a day the leaves went up again, actually looking good for a day, and then they started drooping again. No matter how long I waited, the leaves always stayed very firm, but after a week of waiting I was afraid that they're actually drying out, so I gave them a little water.
The new growth is very bright and the back of the new leaves are reddish colored.
I recently killed the plants and took a look at the roots. They were white. I actually teared the whole thing apart and only found a little brown spot on the long taproot in the middle. So I suspected that it was basically the main artery which somehow got damaged and the plant wasn't able to uptake nutrients or water as a result. Unfortunately I didn't make pictures of it.
I'm always starting my grow with fresh coco to avoid pathogens. I start giving a light dose of nutrients once the first true leaves appear.
Now I'm growing a new plant and it's already showing the same symptoms which all of my countless plants were showing since last October. It may be hard to see in the picture, but the new growth is already starting to get very light in color with reddish hues and overall growth is very slow.
This time I was extra careful to not give her too much water. I give about 15ml every three days when I can't detect any moisture.
I never used perlite with coco and at the moment I didn't have any. Next time I will be adding perlite as well.
I feel so dumb to be honest. I'm not considering myself an expert grower by any means, but I'm growing for quite some time now and I never ran into anythng like this, nor did I ever have problems with overwatering.
One last thing that came to my mind is that maybe my ph test kit may be off. I've always been using those indicator drops to test my ph and I never had problems with that. Maybe for some reason it isn't accurate now and my ph is actually too high? Can those symptoms indicate a ph that's too high?
I'll try lowering the ph just a little bit to try and see. It will take a few days to show any changes I guess.
Here are the pictures, the drooping plants are dead now and the younger seedling is my current one. The newest growh in the center is actually white, which is hard to see in the picure.
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9fingerleafs
Well-known member
What you have is called pythium or fusarium (both root rot) and what you need is called trichoderma harzanium, it’s a fiungicide fungi, I know irony, you buy it in powder form and mix with the water you water with
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
Have you just started? How many days? Usually takes 5 to 7 days to form the spongy protecting mycelium, if trichoderma doesn’t work then discard everything and start over, use more perlite, water less often and provide more drainage. Small plants may not recover as well as big plants in my experience
I'm using trichoderma for quite a while now. I'm always adding it to the water I soak my coco with and I add a little bit with each watering.
By now I'm 1000% sure that I don't overwater. 😕 Next time I'll add perlite. I never used perlite with coco before and didn't have any problems.
I just checked the roots at the bottom of the cup and they are white... they're always white, so it can't be a root pathogen, or can it?
I'm so confused. It absolutely has to be some kind of pathogen, but the roots are always, always white. Maybe a little bit translucent. Is that normal?
From what I can tell the roots seem to be protected by the trichoderma already. There are little white hairs over the roots and they're looking healthy.
By now I'm 1000% sure that I don't overwater. 😕 Next time I'll add perlite. I never used perlite with coco before and didn't have any problems.
I just checked the roots at the bottom of the cup and they are white... they're always white, so it can't be a root pathogen, or can it?
I'm so confused. It absolutely has to be some kind of pathogen, but the roots are always, always white. Maybe a little bit translucent. Is that normal?
From what I can tell the roots seem to be protected by the trichoderma already. There are little white hairs over the roots and they're looking healthy.
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
The same pathogens can attach the stem itself, I’ve recently had some plant dying because I used Vaseline to prevent ants from climbing the stem but it kept the moisture too high and the outer cells turned into white callus, like mother cells for plants, which wanted to grow roots but it just rot. It’s just hard sometimes figuring out what the problem is with coco/hydro because plants react so quickly sometimes there’s no time to fix
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
Btw I went back to adding a lot of perlite to my coco. I stoped because the coco itself holds more water so now I gotta water a bit more often
crucialbunny
Well-known member
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you ditch the coco. It just doesn't seem to be working for you. Maybe put some nice organic potting mixture in a cup and let your seedlings grow in some nice soft dirt. I have never grown in coco so I can't speak with any experience but it seems to me to be the only constant in this problem's equation. What have you got to lose? Just out of curiosity, what led you to choose it as your growing medium?
Yes, this is actually what I wanted to try next. 🙂 Yesterday I ordered a seedling mix and perlite.
I tried using soil once inbetween and had the same problems, but I will try again with a different mix.
I used to grow in soil and then I switched to coco because of faster growth, control over nutrients and lack of pathogens. I grew successfully in coco until I got root rot back in October because I made a mistake and the temperature in my grow tent went above 31°C. Since then my plants keep showing the same symptoms (but with white roots) and it won't go away. 😕
I tried using soil once inbetween and had the same problems, but I will try again with a different mix.
I used to grow in soil and then I switched to coco because of faster growth, control over nutrients and lack of pathogens. I grew successfully in coco until I got root rot back in October because I made a mistake and the temperature in my grow tent went above 31°C. Since then my plants keep showing the same symptoms (but with white roots) and it won't go away. 😕
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
I’m having the same issue. Yesterday I lost two plants. I’m take a picture of one so you can compare. I’m thinking the heat is to blame too. I’m supplementing silica with DE starting today
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
This is one of the dead plants. This was today. Yesterday she was just like the rest of the gang.
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
They are actually clones except for the purple stemmed from the last pic
crucialbunny
Well-known member
That's a nice looking grow and my first reaction to the drooping one was heat. Do you ever take soil temps? Here in So Cal we will sometimes get brutal heat and no wind that will cook my pots. My plants will go limp just like your photo. When it happens I have a stash of frozen water bottles in the freezer I will lay on the surface of the soil or sometimes just bring them indoors for the rest of the day. Some plants seem to do just fine. I had 2 GG4"s that just hated having hot roots while the others were fine. I have zero experience in dealing with pythium or fusarium so I don't have even a clue what that looks like. Thanks for sharing your grow with us.
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
Pythium fusarium and Phytophthora are the names of the fungi that causes the disease we call root and stem rot. Just the proper term but it’s very important because they may do the same damage but the treatment is different. That’s why trichoderma is the best because is the only hung that can battle pythium and also the other two and boytritis (bud rot) and other fusarium remedies do nothing against pythium. I did noticed these days have been extremely hot so I may start to provide intermittent shadow during the hottest hours
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
I never take temps because it’s basically always hot outside but I may start to. I also have some frozen gel bags in the fridge I may try that too. Thank you great advice
homegrown
New member
Hey 9fingerleafs, just curious..do your pots sit on that tile all day? I had a couple last year that i cooked(looked a lot like your pic). Had my fiber pots sitting on concrete for a couple of hours. I think i roasted the roots.
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
That’s another great observation. I’ve always done things this way but this summer is extra hot. I think I found the culprit. I think the heat caused the moisture in the top layer of coco to be too high and the stem kinda rot. When t removed the dead plant I felt smushy the branch exactly where it meets the soil and when I pulled to pluck the roots the branch snapped where it was soft. I think I need to apply trichoderma directly on the branch and the surrounding coco. I’m sure the heat allowed the fungi to consume the branch
9fingerleafs
Well-known member
THis is the same pathogen that attacked roots before destroying true main branch. Even doh I sprinkle trichoderma at transplant and the roots were white , the moisture of the coco and the heat allow for the branch to rot at the base. To this moment I lost 14 plants in just a couple of weeks
crucialbunny
Well-known member
Oh Lord. I have never seen anything like that 9fingerleafs. Does that rot continue down to the root ball or does it only occur at the top of the medium? My condolences. That has to be devastating. Thank you for the learning experience.