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My 1st Grow Journal - 3rd crop, coco grow.

OK. Ordered seeds today for the next round

Purple Kush
Blueberry
Girl Scout Cookies
Diesel Berry Cought
Negra 44
plus 4 free seeds - a surprise!

I've been spending WAY too much time here over the last couple of days so I'm going to drop out for a few days and come back with an update on my plants. I gotta get some non-plant stuff done. :)
 
Hey MadMike
I have a science background too, however I only rarely engage with experimental deductive research. My background is actually in Cultural Anthropology. I do research with peasant farmers in Southern Mexico (hence my avatar name). As part of my graduate training, I took classes in botany and agriculture, but have always been more interested in social and economic issues than the plant science part.
Although I did not know, I am not surprised that the seeds are F1 hybrids. Many commercial seeds are because the F1 generation displays more Heterosis (hybrid vigor) as a result of having all deleterious recessive alleles dominated. If the parent lines are inbred and stable the F1 phenos should all be the same. It is likely that few Cannabis strains are stable inbred lines, hence the F1 phenotypic variation.
I was thinking clones as I was reading your post, right as you had the same thought. You could isolate genetics, but other factors would still vary and the sample size would still be tiny. The bigger issue, almost without doubt, will be that it will prove difficult to not "experiment" with several variables. Assuming you had the control going, I doubt Humic acid would be the only variable you'd want to manipulate.
I think Humic acid is a good addition. I doubt it will cause uptake problems unless you are feeding too much to begin with. Furthermore, it will ease Ph issues more than it exacerbates them. The cautious approach is a good way to go though...
 
Oh jeez, the dork side is strong in these two...

Just kidding. There are a bunch of closet scientists who love to grow pot here! I love it when experts start chiming in NOT JUST ANECDOTES!!!!
 
@campsino
Fun background. And what a great excuse to travel!
On the variables front, for test plants it would have to be just one variable. Especially since it's hard to keep everything else the same. I'm particularly worried about getting 15-20 cuttings that are close to the same size -- and I should take >20 to account for problems with rooting. I think I will have to have one plant be a sacrificial and take all the cuttings from it at once. Still have lots of time to think about it.

@Dinguskhan
If you could point me to one of the closet scientists it would be great. Gives me some time to learn from them before I dabble myself.
 
Just a note to say I purchased the seeds from Seeds Supreme and after looking at Sensible Seeds, I think I should have gone with them. They have much more enticing promo's. I have been happy with Seeds Supreme though.
 
Day 24 of flowering:

I am now greeted by the sweet smell of flowering cannabis when I open the room. My wife says she can smell them in other rooms of the house. :)

I've managed to get the pH in a better spot with plants in the 5.2 -5.8 range. A little tricky on the accuracy since reading a liquid indicator tube. Got to improve on that for the next grow.
Mg deficiency seems to be clearing up. So that's good. Herer is the one at 5.8 or so, so I would like to get that down a touch more.

The AK47 continues to be paler than the other plants. I now think it is from too much light. It really suffered from light intensity in the last grow. But maybe it's still too intense for it. I've dimmed the veg setting on the ViparSpectra over it and turning the 70w HPS away from it. I think I'm seeing some improvement in color.

I've done another watering with the dilute humic acid (ratio above) and I think it's increasing the tip burn. Looks much stronger today. I fertilized on 2/2 (2/3 normal strength) and again on 2/6 (1/2 normal strength) so that might mean the humic acid is increasing nute uptakes. (Speculation of course.) Still, the tip burn is really ramped up in the last two days.

Saying that, I'm seeing some leaves in the canopy that look a little pale. I'm getting some pale and yellowing under the canopy (expected) but up higher seems a touch off to me. I can't see feeding them over the next two days at least so it's a wait and watch situation.

Extra fun tidbit - while climbing over the plants several weeks ago I knock a tall branch of one of the skunks right over. I just propped it back up (no tape or splint) and figured it would be interesting to follow. In essence, I did a supercropping on it but without the rolling between the fingers to break up the fibers. It's doing fine now and showing the classic bulging in the stem. :) I've include a few pictures of it.

I'm now wondering when to shift to the late bloom nute regimen. I always feel like the formal schedule listed (in weeks) isn't the best guide. My plants seem to want to go longer than the 65 day mark by a lot. I harvested too early last crop. So I'm waiting until I start seeing a heavy browning in the pistils. Right now I'm loathe to cut out the trickle of N since the leaves look they need it.

I put descriptions below the photos to id them.
 

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Hey MadMike, I mean in addition to the old-school expert growers here on GWE, I love it when someone with technical training gets to share. For example Campesino with his advanced studies upon advanced studies, being able to contribute graduate degree level advice.

I think there are a doctor or two lurking about who can't be too public about chiming in on chat boards, but still are trying to help here. Electrical engineers, man, it's like fucking comic Con around here sometimes.

Either way, new school or old, this is the shit.
 
Looking good! and great camera work.
So much here I am tempted to comment on, but I only have a few minutes so I'll limit myself to these two
1. I am also doing pH with the liquid indicator. My issue is that I am red/green colorblind. I can tell yellow really well, but a test asking me to tell you if the yellow is slightly green or slightly orange is exactly targeting my weakness. I should also get a meter!
2. Shifting to late bloom is a dilemma and I agree it may be better to read your plants. My plants have not "stretched" since day 28, but they were still growing vertically until then. Tomorrow is day 35 and I had been planning another Mid Flower application, but I am going to at least transition to late flower nutes. I am going to hold off the final flush until they are ready. So basically I am planning to pause on week 11 (Late harvest/Ripen) Nutes if a pause is needed.
3. I Said two... As we were discussing elsewhere, did your RH drop? I got some new leaf burn from a drop in RH. Not saying it isn't Humic...
 
As a fellow habitual impatient premature harvester, I encourage your patience in letting your buds mature. If you can force yourself to leave some of them on to finish and get milky and amber, just a little less glassy.... and set that shit aside for a good cure, and save it for a really good insomnia night...

Maybe we can get a little more comfortable letting them finish, or scrape up the funds to get a bigger light!
 
@campesino
Color blind for a color indicating test. :) That is a trick. I have trouble seeing the true color of my leaves because the HPS yellow some areas and not others. I have to shield areas and sometimes take a leaf sample just to make sure.
The comment on humidity is really helpful. That didn't occur to me and there have been some swings lately. I wanted to check here before I work in the room tonight to see how I should adjust the nutes.

DingusKhan Thanks for that input. I'm going to really hold back on the harvest time. I want to see more amber trichs. Still a ways off from there though.
 
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Quick update:

I just noticed that it has been 5 days since I gave the gals any nutes. "Oh how panic hath blinded the simple grower!"
So they look a little starved as you might expect. Some yellowing of leaves, but not overly so. But it does seem as though growth of the buds has slowed as well. Hoping no permanent stunting.
I was planning on going half strength on mid bloom but after realizing the latency, I went with full strength.
The runoff pH is between 5.5 (AK47) and 4.5 (one of the Skunk#1's) so I fed them at 6.0.

On a side note: I haven't mentioned the White Widow auto in the back corner mainly since it's just a 'see what happens' plant. Surprisingly, I started it with all the other plants... and it's still not done. Haven't seen an amber trich on it yet. Kind of crazy. It did some foxtailing a while back from too much N I believe but it's settled down again. It's just running on late bloom nutes, hiding in the back field, and doing it's own thing.
 
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Day 50 for flowering - Excuse the long post but it's been a while. ;)

It's been a bit of a hairy ride for the last couple of weeks. Some stresses on the plants stress me out, but I'm calmer this grow than I was for my last. :)

Room temps and humidity have been great. Temps 78 day, 68 night -- Humidity 39% day, 50% night. A little high on the night humidity but VPD chart shows I'm swinging through the optimal zone - a little too dry and a little too humid for flowering. Not worried about rot at all though since they get a good dry period as well.

pH has been a bit of a bugger. All plants are running in the 5.0 - 5.3 range except the 2 skunks which are at 4.8, and 4.5. I've switched to pH water and nutes at 8.0 and past experience from last grow says this will take a while to get those numbers moving. (I know 5.0 - 5.3 is good for coco. I'm just trying to maintain that at this point. The skunks were at 5.5 only a handful of weeks ago...)
​
Lighting... I've been hitting them too hard. I'm seeing amber trichs showing up on the most exposed leaves but new growth shows lower counts so turning down the lights seems to be helping.

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I turned off th e HPS over the AK 47 since it won't seem to green up. I had been turning down the veg intensity on the 300 w Vipar over it but I don't think that was enough. So off goes the HPS. But seeing browing trichs on other plants has convinced me to pull the shade cloth (which was definitely helping a lot for the center) and cut out the veg on the 600 w and go bloom only.

I've been reading the micromoles with a Hydrofarm Quatum PAR meter and readings for most areas of the room were in the 650 - 725 range. From my understanding that should be fine. The light intensity looks fine to my eye as well. But perhaps the meter is reading too low. There is no way to calibrate it since it 'self calibrates' so I can't really speak to it save for observing my plants. I'm going to be aiming for 600 for the center of the room but didn't get a reading before the lights cut out on me. :)​ I'm curious to see how the corners will be reading. It does seem that areas that have been lower on the intensity scale are looking healthier, albeit with smaller buds.

I've been running mid bloom schedule up until yesterday and have switched to late bloom schedule. Looking at the trichs, I maybe could have switched over a week ago but I'm too inexperienced to know for sure. After my 5 day nute drought, giving them a full nute watering give them some real pep in growth! But now I think I've been going to heavy -- of course -- and tip burn is fairly heavy.

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So I'm going to be ramping that back going forward. I've also been going without water or nutes for 2 to 2.5 days, mainly because I've been really busy. They have been drying out quite a bit in between and seem to be o.k. with it. I'm not comfortable with it and I'm in a better place to monitor the soil water content better. I'm wondering if that is helping drive down my runoff pH but I don't think so. Last grow the pH just dropped out when they started flowering and I'm in the same position now.

As for the plants -- the buds are definitely bigger and denser than my last grow so that's really good. But because I browned some trichs from the light (pretty confident based on height and location in room) it's a little tricky to get a real sense of how they are progressing. I'm seeing a real blend of clear and 'mostly' milky with a scattering of amber on most of them. The AK 47 showing the fewest ambers, the Lithium showing a scattering and the Herer showing plenty in the middle of the room. Expected... Buds on the perimeter show very few ambers and I think they represent the progress best. I sample from a sugar leaf about 2/3 down on a bud since they are a bit older and give a better sense of overall progress I think.

I'm not letting those ambers get me jittery since I think I've harvested too early in the past,. I think I have 3 weeks to go but things could change quickly. I'm aiming to seem ambers about 25-30% of total trichs for harvest. Guidance on this is more than welcome!

The Mg deficiency in the Herer continues to spread despite the pH coming down in the low 5 range and always adding cal/mag to every watering. *shrug* I'm at a bit of a loss to explain it except it is really only showing in the center of the room and I believe the light stress is bringing it out. I'll see how it goes after turning down the lights.

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Also of note, the front skunk shows very strong purple-ing of the stems. Most of the plants show some purple in the petioles but this one has purple veining down the stems all the way to stump.

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Reading, it could be a sign of P deficiency but it could also be phenotypic. I worry about it though since the pH for for the skunks are so low. Not much I can do except keep trying to get the pH up. This skunk also has been having lower leaves yellowing much more quickly than the other plants. Most haven't been shedding leaves at all -- just a couple in the last week. So that also seems to say something is amiss with this plant.

On a curious side, the branch that got 'super cropped by accident' has one of or maybe the largest bud for the skunks. :)​

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Room placement and height might be playing a role here but damn if it doesn't look like it's pulling ahead. I'll be exploring super cropping next go around for sure.

I've labeled all the photos to help you sort though them. I left some of them at full res since you can see the trichs pretty clearly.
 

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Supercropping For the WIN!
Absolutely, my supercropped colas are outpacing all those that weren't. The most recent supercrop (flower day 21) is the best. It will be hard to stop me from going supercrop crazy during the stretch on this next grow too.
I have not had similar pH issues. The last time I checked it, runoff was a touch higher than what I had been giving them. I think I'll check again!
Sugar leaf trichomes turn before the buds. When it gets close I plan to nip small bits of the bud to check.
Finally, I've been watering twice a day several days this week. Glad you'll be able to keep them wet (and update your journal!). It may help the buds swell even more, but looking Good!
3 weeks huh ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​looks like we got a race.
 
I think I'll do some supercropped on some branches on each plant and see how they compare. But I will say the the skunk branch is in a corner so it's doing really well considering the light it's getting.
Thanks for the tip on the leaves turning faster than the buds themselves. I'll see what I can spot when I take photos along the way. I forgot that I can see a lot of detail in the trichs when I zoom in on the details. And I forgot I have a macro lens for my Canon. I don't use it much since it's a little bit of a pain to focus in with it's shallow depth of field. Maybe I'll try some focus stacking just for fun. I've never done that before.
 
Quick update:

Re-oriented the lights and added back in the shade canopy. I was running pretty low in light levels at the perimeter so I needed to turn back on the veg setting for the 600w. Now most of the room is reading around 650 micromoles and the fringes mostly in the 370-400 range. A couple of spots on the highest buds is a little over 700 but I feel bringing up the total light level is more important than protect a few choice spots.

Today the Herer buds look like they are putting on a spurt of growth. New clusters of white hairs seem to have popped up overnight. I haven't seen that on the rest of the plants but who knows tomorrow.

On the pH front, much faster progress than I expected! Today's runoff is reading 5 - 5.5. Everyone moved up .5 from two days ago. Still gave them 8.0 today, but will move that to 6.0 for the next waterings and see how it moves.
 
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Let's talk about my lighting some more --

Over the last few days I was thinking that perhaps light levels needed to be reduced while flowering. Didn't make sense to me though since cannabis is semi-equitorial plant. So I just went out and did a quick search for info.

Here, a lighting manufacturer cites a popularly cited study by Chandra. The recommendation is to maintain 700 micromoles/s for the grow. Links to Chandra's papers are given but I haven't looked at them.
https://loudbank.com/maximize-cannab...-%C2%B5molm2s/

This forum post mentions that Chandra's research is not credible, which I think I have read elsewhere, and also supports the increase of light levels during flowering.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=311713

Another manufacturer indicates that light levels should be increased to maintain the optimum light absorption during flowering. It also gives a nice breakdown of calculating moles/m2/day.
http://pllight.com/demystifying-ligh...annabis-grows/

This manufacturer has provided a comprehensive explanation of all aspects of lighting and how they relate to exposure intensity, and energy efficiency of various types of lamps. This is a fantastic resource for those interested in learning about measuring light levels!
http://www.inda-gro.com/IG/sites/def...PlantLight.pdf
Looking at pg. 17 gives a great chart for converting micromoles/s to moles/day based on hours of light exposure. (It saves you the time for doing the math yourself. :) )
At 700 micromoles/s over an 11 hour day (my current lighting timing), the moles/day = 28

The pllight.com/demystifying source give the suggested moles/day target of 32.
The inda-gro.com article (pg 19) shows that roses (highest requirement plant) do fine at 20 moles/day.

So, long story short -- Nearly everyone says 700 micromoles/s is an appropriate level and 28 moles/day (for 11 hours of light) is well within acceptable good growing, with 500 micromoles/s producing 20 moles/day which is good enough for roses. :) It's sort of relieving to read that since the outside of my room hits the 400-500 micromoles/s range for the most part, dipping to 300-400 towards the corners.

**********

So I'm left with a little confusion on why my plants show light burn (that's what I'm calling it anyway) on some sugar leaves as seen in my photos above. This is especially confusing since these sources seem to indicate cannabis can take much higher light levels than 700 micromoles/s, again something I have read elsewhere on the web, and reasonable since sunlight is in the range of 2000 micromoles/s!! I've considered that my meter may be inaccurate and is reading low, but even if it is off by 20% -- an unlikely and extreme level of error -- that would mean they would be getting somewhere around 900 micromoles when my meter reads 700. Still within acceptable levels even if it is not entirely used by the plants.

Saying all of that, light burn is a common concern for indoor growers, and shows as yellowing of the leaves which I did see on my last grow in dead center of the room. Of course, I'm not seeing yellowing of the leaves on any of the plants now. But I did see browning of the pistils at the tops of buds near the maximum light exposure areas of the room, and the buds recovered and began producing new healthy pistils once I lowered their exposure (shade cloth)... They were getting around 850 before shading if I remember right. I'm sort of left a bit baffled. ???

I wonder if anyone has seen early ripening of trichs from over exposure. I didn't mention it before but I did have one sample leaf where the pistils had gone from amber to black/near black and this was under the most intense areas of light in the room. I saw some of that during my last crop and the leaves I show above were certainly headed in that direction.

*** I should make this a dedicated post. I'll have to take some better photos and put it up within the next day or two.

*** I posted a review of the Hydrofarm Quantum Meter on Amazon and I recommend reading it since there are some (correctable) flaws in its manufacturing design.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-r...SIN=B0055F59LA
 
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