Insect, Foe or Friend...pics

[Bluey]

These little fellas have made a nursery in the top inch of my coco....typically found in huge quantity a quarter inch under the top of the dry coco in the moist coco to about an inch deep...the juveniles are too small to photograph, under a mm in length and they move fast, whitish in appearance....they only seem to come out once grown to the photographed size, a bit under a quarter of an inch. I am assuming they are the same but may not be.
I think I had them last grow but in small numbers. There must be 50 to 100 of them in a small area of coco, say 2 sq inches 5 to 25mm deep.
No generalised obvious sign of leaf damage although I do have 2 unusual leaves showing.

 

[n1netyn1ne]

Hello,
Looks like maybe ...Fungus Gnats

Also looks like algae growing on top of coco? maybe it seems too wet.. and those bugs like it... might want to cover the top of coco with something to protect the coco from the light.. maybe a layer of small gravel ontop

 

[Blowdout2269]

I'd have to guess fungus gnats aswell. Though it does seem quite large, the leaf damage is consistent with one of the many symptoms.

 

[Gingerbeard]

Coco is not generally susceptible to things like fungus gnats unless you have a fungus issue. The bug you are showing is not a FG. Way too big.
I'm going to throw this out to the bug people. There are no stages to gnat growth. They are either in their cocoon thing or are adults.
The leaf damage is nothing to worry about unless it spreads. Leaves do not always grow perfectly.

 

[Bluey]

I f they are not fungus gnats then they are very very close to them. Wingtip to head 4mm. Better pic of two adults below.

Ok. Few points that I think are relevant.

I do have typically localised algae but beside that the top 10mm is completely dry but changes shade to moist 5 to 15mm below.

I'm pretty certain I am not overwatering...coco, 10 to 20% run off to waste, 3 fertigations, lights on +6 +6, 1 minute timer, mini sprayers x 3 in 12gal pot. 2 to 3lrs/pot/feed 18/6.

Coco is all recycled...washed thoroughly from last grow..EC & pH outputs same as inputs..

I think they are worse this time around as the coco is probably in a more decomposed state...the larvae love it.

Anyway, they are in all the top section of the pots, quite shallow and in great number. And the twins are doing well but are at half the growth stage of the 6 others....and if these things eat the top roots that would make sense.

My thinking is these pots are large enough to support an enormous amount of roots out of the range of these little critters...

I think I will maintain my existing watering schedule. As you can see by the pics not oversaturated....much less I risk zero runoff...and I'm away all week and relying on the automation.

All suggestions and thoughts welcome....I plan on leaving them be.

PS. I have a large amount of pot plant fungus (yellow mushrooms) growing on anything that gets a bit wet. I've let them spore before removing the dying ones...this may be a mistake given the insect numbers.

 

[Gingerbeard]

Recycled coco? I'm looking at your coco and don't see any perlite.

 

[Bluey]

Correct..no perlite...coco drains well, pot doesn't sit in waste runoff. Perlite would speed early growth a bit and probably reduce the algae & mushrooms on top....

I used this same method on my first grow with this coco...zero issues apart from user error...this time its different and im guessing it's the decomposing coco.....interesting

 

[Gingerbeard]

Well, I've not heard of perliteless coco. But hey, if you worked it, it works. All the algae and other growth you are talking about is beyond me.
Reusing soil and coco are both topics that come up frequently.

 

[Franklin]

Have you tried Google lens? I tried on a few of your photos and different things kept coming up but this looked the closest. I agree with others that they don't look like the same kind of fungus gnats I get, but here's the link: https://bonide.com/insect/fungus-gnats/

 

[Gingerbeard]

Can you tell if the blue/teal of the wings is actually blue/teal or if it from other light? It looks to me like the thing has a probiscis and might be a leaf sucker? I'm googling.

 

[Bluey]

Pretty sure they are a type of fungus gnat.

Plants are healthy and doing well so I'm guessing I got enough of a head start on the seedlings not to be concerned about them...fingers crossed their waste by-products don't cause me issues.

 

[Bluey]

The blue teal reflection in the wings in one of the photos appears to be from the light refraction. I'll see if I can get front on pics of the head on lights on....there is only ever 1 or two sitting on the leaves of the entire grow.

 

[Mr.furley]

At first I was going to say leafhopper but then looking at pictures and it resembled a wooly aphid but even more but then I found pictures of a mushroom fungus gnat and I think that would be my best guess. Any large pot with a small plant being watered 3 times a day growing algee, fungus and has bugs is considered overwatered in coco and I don't care what other web sites say. Just because you get runoff does not eliminate over-watering. Plants that don't get enough time to uptake oxygen in the roots are overwatered no matter the medium, that even includes hydro imo think about if you would remove the airstone, you dig?

You are running a Gas Lantern schedule with high fertigation and I get it but in my experience it does not work on smaller plants in bigger pot, it the other way around. Bigger plants in smaller pot, the reason I say this is look at the top of you coco then think about what the roots are sitting in, it may be fine for now and you will/have-had success but think about how much smoother it would go with proper conditions.

I'd also point out that high frequency watering requires a larger amount of perlite in the medium. Example of my plants, are 4 ft tall, 70/30%, 12 months old in 3 gallon pots being watered twice a day for 10 minutes to 15% runoff. If my plants were half that age and size they'd get 1 watering every 24 hr, if your plants were my plants they'd get water to run off every 2 to 3 days

It your grow Bluey and I won't judge how you want to do it, the question wasn't even about watering practices, but its the root of your problem, gnats will come in coco and will live in Coco. I've had many of arguments on here with people over the subject of high frequency watering and I'm quite burned out about it so no disrespect and continue on, it's just my opinion that if you continue to water like that with recycled soil you're going to grow mushrooms have algae sooner or later have sick plants that you've been needing to spray with pesticides and fungicides. Coco coir is organic but not in the no till way. Good luck

 

[Gingerbeard]

I'm going to sit back and see what happens.

 

[Gingerbeard]

Condition must be everything. Since switching to coco (50/50) I have not had a single gnat. WPM and spidermites, yes. When in soil, I never went without FG's.

 

[Bluey]

Ill cut watering frequency back to twice a day at lights on + 9. EC at the roots worries me and so does salt build up.

Last grow I did have slower seedling growth than normal and I suspect.I may have thus grow. Im sure perlite would help but I was trying to stay green and environmentally friendly..that's the only reason I'm not using perlite

 

[Franklin]

Dude this kind of truth bomb is why we all pay Mr furley the big bucks and call him by his honorific.

 

[Mr.furley]

Bluey I understand that concern, look at it this way your coco drys out in-between grows when you reuse it right? The edge of you pot is dry right now? Wouldn't that have past grow salt build up? Iv NEVER bought in to that fear mongering from people trying to sell you products, here is why. Most run there plants and chuck the medium, 4 months and done isn't time for bad build up to kill a plant, They you say "but in the long haul" Gingerbeard do you remember my Tahoe OG mother in a 1.7liter pot, ( https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/554977-is-this-root-bound#post554977 ) same plant as Time to show thread opening picture. its ultimate demise was a uncontrollable springtail (not beneficial in Coco) due to algae growing in the pot from leaving water in a saucer so I didn't have to go water much due to a move. That plant lived in that pot rain or shine for years (3-4) and it was only in coco till the whole pot became roots, algae and bugs killed that thing not salt. Point being old coco will develop problems, iv never seen salt build up to be the big one that other are scared of though it does have Merit.

Do you use a enzymatic like cannazym or hydrozyme? It will help

I get paid? Lol Thanks for the props Franklin means the world.

 

[Bluey]

@MrFurley Between crops I fully flushed...it was still wet when sprouting seeds went in.. I tried drying them out so they would be easier to lift and carry .nope, heavy as. I didn't give it a hot flush just a 10% mix in the seedling tap area then went to the irrigation squirter.
I'm not home next week but changed the cycle one step as I cannot monitor it until i get back next weekend..2nd & 3rd tops next weekend too, 1st top for the twin runts.

 

[Bluey]

Mr.furley no enzymes, just silica supplement during veg..using a 2 part coco nute