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I'm stumped!

kenKgrow

New member
Hi everybody, This is my first post, but I have used GWE for years for the articles and helpful posts.

Now I have a problem I want to share and hopefully get some guidance.


Basic info:

I have been growing in the same small enclosure for 9 years (18x30x48)
I started with photo plants but have grown only autos for the past 3-4 years.
Lights are 2x Advanced Platinum 150 LED and 2 small leds for side lights.
With both the photos and the autos I have consistently harvested 2-2.5 oz per plant. Nothing to brag about, but it works for me.

I’ve always grown in soil

A year ago my plants began growing smaller and yields decreased. I hadn’t changed anything, so I figured it was a one-time thing.

Since then, my plants and yields have gotten smaller with each grow.

I keep good notes, so I went back to my earlier successful grows and duplicated everything 100% and my yields continued to decrease.

My last harvest was about 9 gms per plant.

I normally use LST, primarily bending and tying down, but to avoid plant stress I have left the last couple grows to grow as they want. The last grow had one plant produce seeds. That’s a first for me. Also, they finish up (harvest) weeks earlier than in the past. Signs of stress, I imagine.

One weird thing is that the plants look perfectly healthy. Other than small size and yield, they look perfectly fine with no obvious signs of disease or deficiency. Even the root system looks the same as always, tho a little smaller.

I have tried several soils with no change in results. (Ocean Forest, Happy Frog, Roots Original).

I had been using Aurora ferts for years. Tried a nonorganic brand instead, but yields have continued to plummet.

I had been using a liquid test kit for pH, so I bought a meter and have been using it for the last couple grows.

I keep the temps at mid to high 70s with lights on and I let it drop to 70 when lights are off.

Lights on 18hrs

I can’t control the humidity. For 2/3 of the year it’s at 60 and in the winter it drops to 40.

The maddening part is that I had changed nothing prior to this problem. Of course there has to be a reason, but I just can’t figure it out.

To make it worse, a friend of mine reuses his soil for years (his current grow is in 3 year old potting soil) and doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing. He uses only cheap generic soil, ferts and lights and he’s getting 3-4 oz per plant. It’s no good asking him for advice, because he admits that he has no idea what he’s doing.

Drives me NUTS!

This has become such a “head-scratcher”. I just can’t figure it out. I’ve tried everything I can think of.

Thank you for reading through this post and for any suggestions.
 
How old is your light? It may not be putting out the juice it used to which would decrease yield.

Also humidity and temperature need to be controlled in the room your tents are located, not inside the tents themselves. The fans inside the tent are there to move air, control smell and remove old air while bringing in fresh air. I use a combo of a dehumidifier, a humidifier and a portable ac unit inside my grow room itself which then gives my plants the environment to thrive
 
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The age of the LED was my thought as well, they (and others) do fade with time, it may be in need of a new one. Hey its only money,
 
Thanks for replying!

I did wonder about the lights. Here are the specs for what I'm using. I have 2 of these in an 18 x 30 enclosure that is about 4' high. The plants do not stretch for the light like they would if they were not getting enough. [TABLE="class: table slanted"]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]HID Replacement[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]250w HPS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Width[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]5 in | 13 cm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Length[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]19 in | 48 cm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Height[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]3 in | 8 cm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Weight[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]8 lbs | 4 kg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Max Coverage at 18″ Height[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]4.5’x3.5′[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Core Coverage at 18″ Height[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]3’x1.5′[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]LED Quantity[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]50x3w[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Lifespan[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]50,000 – 100,000 hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]12-Band LED Spectrum[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]Included[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Secondary LED Focusing Lens[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]90°[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Warranty[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]5 Year Complete Warranty[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Voltage[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]AC85-260V[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Bloom Power[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]87 watts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: col1"]Veg Power[/TD]
[TD="class: col2"]50 watts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Amperage (Veg + Bloom)[/TD]
[TD]0.8A @ 110V / 0.4A @ 220V[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Amperage (Veg Switch Only)[/TD]
[TD]0.5A @ 110V / 0.2A @ 220V[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


One of the lights is about 6 years old. The other is 5 years old. The best I can figure based on my past grow schedule is that the older one has about 33,000 hours on it and the other has about 28,000 hours.

I didn't realize that LEDs get dimmer / weaker over time. Have others had this happen to them? How long do people generally keep their LED fixtures before having to replace them because the performance starts to lag? Is there a way of measuring this (besides under performing plants...)?

I bought the second light hoping to increase my yields. After doubling the light I saw no increase in yield. I figure there must be another limiting factor, but I would sure be happy if all I had to do is buy a new light.

While I would rather not spend the money on lights, it's way cheaper than buying weed on the street, and way,way cheaper than the pot store.
 
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Going by the specs, your lights weren’t very powerful to begin with. Now they’re 5 and 6yrs old. If you’d trust what many have previously mentioned and go purchase a new full spectrum LED that actually pulls 250W instead of being compared to it you’d be amazed at what you’ll get 1st grow under it. HLG has a light that only draws 150w that would cover your space for less that $200 last time I saw it advertised.
 
I was a big proponent of HPS for years bc they’re cheap but man leds are so much better than they used to be. No heat issues either
 
I've been searching the web trying to educate myself about LED grow light lifespans. On the Spectrum King site they tell you how long their lights will last. After 6.5 years at 12 hours per day (25,500 hours) the output is greater than 90% of it's original, and at 15 years it's at 70%

Those numbers are way better than I've seen elsewhere. I read various statements about this and most seem to say to change them every 4-5 years, depending on actual use. I've also seen a "rule-of-thumb" that they lose about 5% per year. Of course the quality of the construction and materials used will play a major role.

So it seems like you guys are on to something, and I should start shopping for lights.

bboyfromwayback, I get your point about the humidity etc. and I know you are right, but considering that all of my "successful" grows were in the same environmental conditions, I don't think that that is the cause of my current problems. I would like to take your advice and get the humidity fine tuned, but The cost of heating, dehumidifying, humidifying and cooling my entire basement all year would just be too much for a 2-3 plants. If I can get back to 2-3 oz per plant I'll happy again.
 
Thanks, I'll check them out. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I seem to know just enough to get myself in trouble...

EDIT: I checked out the HLG site and couldn't find any lights that fit that description. Perhaps it's discontinued.
EDIT: The same model light that HLG lists as "VEG Spectrum" on their site is being sold on Amazon as "VEG & FLOWER".
 
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I agree 100% with hlg. Check amazon for HLG 100 R Spec its $149 with prime or you can buy direct from hlg for the same price. If I were in the market for lights for a small enclosure Id cram as many of these as will fit. I just got the hlg 65 yesterday to replace a crappy 300w blurple in my veg tent. I was so impressed a second should be arriving any minute now to replace the other blurple in my veg tent lol
 
This the response that I got from HLG (within an hour of contacting them!!). "They both can be used for full cycle. But one offers better results in veg while the Rspec effects are better in flower."

Both of these lights are 95 actual watts and sell for $150 so I'm wondering if they are the ones you had in mind. That's less powerful than my original lights.You mentioned using 250w, but only 95?Their next light is $400 and draws 90-270 watts.
 
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I’d almost bet money it’s your light. You’ll be shocked at how much better the new full spectrum LED’s are compared to your old lights.
 
Just a thought, but when was the last time you cleaned the lenses? I’m wondering if you have dirty lenses reducing light emission.
 
You didn't mention if you start from seed. Perhaps I missed it but many seedbanks will admit if the seeds are old they will likely produce smaller yields. Of course different strains also make a difference too.
I would say that if nothing has changed in terms of light, heat and water (including humidity) and no other technical changes (pots, fans, ph testers etc.) then look to the source of the plant itself, the seeds.

I would assume that is where the problem is or that you have changed strains or both. Some strains, regardless of Auto or Photo, like moderate heat, some like high humidity, some like more arid conditions (Alaskan Purple), some like longer light periods(Northern Lights) etc. etc.
 
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kenKgrow , i have to agree with everyone suggesting lights. I too had a similar issue with my last two grows..Early grows were really impressive with fairly large but really solid buds. Third grow i noticed more of airy bud on a couple of plants which i thought was just probably strain related. Last grow was the same, light and fluffy buds. Problem is, i never would have thought to check the lights cause they both worked on bloom and veg. Long story short...Santa brought me a new light;) and when i was putting the Viperspectra s away i noticed a pattern of bulbs were toasted! According to their website the bulbs in question are veg stage bulbs. So..get a flashlight, turn your lights off and see if there is any visible failures. Good luck. Plants are luving the new fusion board..
 

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Yea they’re hard to beat. Some of the new leds are comparable but you MUST do the research before purchasing. With HPS you just go buy one based on wattage and they’re all the same. Cuts right through the crap
 
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