Coco grow going sideways, I need some help!

[Shneex0338]

Hey GWE people!

This website pulled me through my first low budget grow around 10 years ago. I just did it for fun, just because. Now 10 years later, I wanted to do it once again, but failed all my organic grows. I then switched to coco.

And what can I say? At first, it was a blessing. No overwatering issues, nothing. It seemed perfect. But in the past few days (almost 2 weeks), I ran into an annoying problem. My plant just.. droops. It doesn't pray, the leaves don't really get up a lot, they just slightly move upwards over a few hours at lights on, and then severely drop right onto the ground already a few hours before the lights turn off. I just don't know what to do anymore.

But, as I'm a professional in being stupid and asking questions everywhere, I know what to do:

• Canna Coco Professional substrate, prebuffered
• Canna Coco nutrient line (A+B, Rhizo, Cannazyme), Aptus Regulator Silica, and BioBizz Calmag / PH Down
• Humboldt Seed Company Gazzurple strain (Photo fem)
• DLI currently only at 15, as the leaves serrated edges started curling upwards at 25DLI, even at 20
• Two other seedlings are in the same tent, and they are both praying and really happy, even at 25DLI, one is the same strain as the big plant
• Light: MarsHydro FC3000
• Fresh air going in, old air going out, smart fan system
• Temps not perfect, always at around 23-25°C, humidity at around 60-70%, nighttime 18-20°C.
• Plant got fimmed 2 days ago, even though it already was sad, but whatever.
• Feeding at 0.9EC (Water has 0.4EC by default), pH between 5.8 and 6.0, going by the canna coco schedule
• I feed ONCE a day with 15-20% runoff

I don't know what to do anymore. It's been droopy for 10+ days already. I haven't found one fix yet. Even the top of the stem is drooping to the side, fimming wasn't the cause for the droopy stem, it's been like this for a few days already. I did something a bit more severe yesterday, and flushed the plant once, as I noticed a runoff EC of 1.7, even though I'm only feeding 0.9EC. I flushed just once with low nutrient PH water, and the EC was at an acceptable 1.0 then. That's all I did so far.

If there are any questions, I'm ready to answer them. I really need help, as it's insanely sad to watch the plant just not doing its best. I want it to be happy, but I don't know how or what I'm doing wrong.

 

[9fingerleafs]

I think it just need a bit more time between waterings, all sounds perfect. Even the 1.7ec inside the lot is normal. It should be even higher. I grow in coco and water at 1.8 EC with medium ec around 3-4. Try lifting the pot to get a better idea of the water content by weight. Water less often and I'm sure it will perk up

 

[Shneex0338]

I did follow the well known coco guide (don't know if I'm allowed to mention other websites here), but I think you know which one. The one we all know & everyone recommends, with 3 waterings a day. I felt like one would be enough, but is it really fine to completely skip waterings in coco? I heard it's so similar to hydro, and that it needs daily waterings to thrive and survive. Maybe the root system needs to build more until I can daily water? I'm new, so I can just guess.

And is it okay if I flushed already, or did I cause damage by lowering the EC of the runoff to ~1EC? I imagine it'll just rise up again over time, or?

But yes, I guess I will just skip the watering today & see how the plant looks tomorrow, it's the only thing I haven't tried yet.

 

[9fingerleafs]

Yeah. The EC will rise over time. Every few weeks you can flush but I don't flush and never had an issue with that. The amount of nutrients depends on the light the plant is getting so you gotta find the right amount for your set up. I flower outdoors so I got the sun full blast. Most days I water twice a day but only once if it's overcast. But my veg is indoor and I water every two or three days. I try to water with no run off. I now know when the plant needs water but takes some practice. The best way is to lift the plants and water when they feel super light.

Don't really know what coco guide you mean. It's not prohibited to mention or link other sites as long as you are not promoting or advertising. I'm going to take a wild guess and say maybe dr.coco has a guide? He was a member here before he adopted that name. Didn't get along with people here and developed his own site with a few other members. If that's not it just ignore that.

The plant looks really great. And remember the dry period in the medium causes the plant to grow more and longer roots in search for water, so it's a great thing to make the plant work for it a little bit. Bests of luck

Ps. Did a great job in your post. If more people would take the effort to explain and provide details they'd get more help. It's easier to chime in when you don't have to ask for information

 

[Shneex0338]

It was the cocoforcannabis guide that lots of people swear by, I thought it'll be 100% safe, especially because it's recommended to water 3 times a day, but I only wanted to do once.

And about the plant looking great - I don't know anymore. Technically it does indeed look nice, but I checked a bit closer today, and the leaves are apparently starting to lose color everywhere. The tips are all healthy, no burnt tips, but when I checked the tent today for the first time, it just seemed more yellow than usually. That viewpoint changes the longer I look at it, but images don't really lie.

Same for my seedling in the same coco perlite mix, with same nutrients. It's slowly turning lime-green. That one gets fed with an EC of 0.8 currently, same pH of around 5.8-6.0

 

[Ckbrew]

I started with the coco for cannabis watering schedule. Then I switched to the GWE schedule. Watering multiple times per day did not work for me. Your plants don't look really bad. I would try pulling back watering to once a day, and perhaps skipping a day or 2 so they dry out a bit. Don't let them completely dry out. Get into the habit of lifting the pots to determine how much water is still in them. I usually skip a day every 4-5 days. This will change as the water requirements change as the life cycle of the plant changes.

 

[Shneex0338]

I started with the coco for cannabis watering schedule. Then I switched to the GWE schedule. Watering multiple times per day did not work for me. Your plants don't look really bad. I would try pulling back watering to once a day, and perhaps skipping a day or 2 so they dry out a bit. Don't let them completely dry out. Get into the habit of lifting the pots to determine how much water is still in them. I usually skip a day every 4-5 days. This will change as the water requirements change as the life cycle of the plant changes.

Yeah I didn't follow the "multiple waterings a day" schedule anyways, as it.. scared me. I felt like once a day was enough so I only watered once daily with 15-20% runoff, and apparently it was fine going by lots of opinions. But for whatever reason, it isn't fine as the plant is telling me. I haven't seen it happy once in its lifecycle so far, which kinda bugs me out a bit.

Right now the pot is pretty heavy, as I watered around 25 hours ago. Some dry coco here and there on top of the substrate. I'll just leave her alone for today and see how she's looking tomorrow.

 

[Rootsruler]

Most of those guides are general guidelines. Use them to get in the ballpark then dial them into your specific situation. Everyone's a little different.

I agree with Ckbrew. Looks like you're overwatering. Use the light pot method like he suggested. Watering frequency is dependent on so many factors like environment, cultivar, PPFD, etc. so when someone says water X times a day take it as a jump off point and adjust accordingly.

Are you seeing a rise in fungus gnats? That's a good indicator of overwatering.

 

[Shneex0338]

Most of those guides are general guidelines. Use them to get in the ballpark then dial them into your specific situation. Everyone's a little different.

I agree with Ckbrew. Looks like you're overwatering. Use the light pot method like he suggested. Watering frequency is dependent on so many factors like environment, cultivar, PPFD, etc. so when someone says water X times a day take it as a jump off point and adjust accordingly.

Are you seeing a rise in fungus gnats? That's a good indicator of overwatering.

Nah luckily no gnats for me in the tent, as of now it's 100% clean of any pests. I usually water at 2pm, and that's long ago, so I will just skip it for today and see how she looks tomorrow. That's the only thing I haven't tried yet, so chances are that it's indeed overwatering. I'm just confused as to how everyone says you can't overwater coco, it's literally why I changed to that stuff. I'm usually 100% organic, but too dumb to water correctly, so coco was my choice in the end.

I guess I'm just so dumb that I even overwater a substrate which is almost impossible to.. overwater.

 

[Rootsruler]

I got told the same thing with rockwool......uuuuuhhh NO......

I find light pot tends to work across the spectrum except DWC.

 

[Shneex0338]

Okay I noticed something strange with my tiny plant in the same coco substrate. I do have a "double pot" setup, meaning one translucent cup to check for roots, and another cup over it, non-translucent. The translucent cups also has some slits around the sides, which I cut into it for some better aeration.

I just checked out the roots (they seem fine so far), but I noticed a strange smell.. almost like wet dog? Or maybe used socks? Just a strange smell. Is this normal for coco and Canna Coco nutrients? I do use the A+B, but also the rhizotonic which smells like fish, may this be the cause? My other big plant doesn't smell like this, at least I didn't notice anything.

 

[Rootsruler]

How is your translucent cup going to get any aeration effect if they're covered over by the outer cup unless the outer has drainage/aereation holes? Also explains a lot as to why you're getting that smell. Probably the beginnings of root rot due to water sitting in the outer cup.

 

[Shneex0338]

How is your translucent cup going to get any aeration effect if they're covered over by the outer cup unless the outer has drainage/aereation holes? Also explains a lot as to why you're getting that smell. Probably the beginnings of root rot due to water sitting in the outer cup.

They're not exactly cups, but tiny pots with different sizes, the bigger one doesn't touch the smaller one, it's only touching at the top rim, so no light gets in there. The bigger one is also fully open on the bottom, it's pretty much just a plastic tube.

 

[Rootsruler]

Gotcha! I thought you were running solo cups.

 

[Shneex0338]

Gotcha! I thought you were running solo cups.

Small update - I repotted it into the 1 gal now. I planned to repot tomorrow because roots were shooting everywhere out the bottom, the sides, but the smell threw me off, so I had to get that plant outta that contraption. Good news though: It wasn't the substrate itself. I was glad that it literally smelled like nothing, just a hint of typical "soil" smell. It was the pot itself, for whatever reason. I got it out the basement, that pot was probably 20 years old already, and I probably didn't notice it from the beginning on. Phew.

Let's see where this'll take us, I'm still more worried about the big plant, even though the smaller one is losing color too.

 

[Sixwinds]

I grow in coco too and can't imagine watering three times a day... it would drown the plant. At the stage your plant is in I would be watering with about 3 liters of water every three days or so. I let the top of the coco dry out and only worry about watering when the first inch or so of coco is totally dry. If I had to guess I would say overwatering may be the issue.

 

[Shneex0338]

Okay, soo.. Yeah. You guys were right. The big one is literally perking up with each hour gone by, after I didn't water yesterday. Lights will turn on in a little less than an hour, I took a little peek inside the tent, and.. it actually looks like it'd look with lights on after a few hours. I'm excited as to what they look like when the light turns on.

You guys probably saved my ass. Thanks a lot, you got a new member. Take this as a warning though, I'm a literal cannabis killer and I'll probably ask too much. But you got a new member

 

[Rootsruler]

It's what we do! LOL!

 

[Gingerbeard]

Between soil and coco/perlite, coco/perlite is an absolute snap.
Soil makes me nervous because nutrient issues are harder to deal with than with coco.
Seed to coco. Never worry about light intensity because I follow manufacturer's recommendations and figure my light at 250+ watts is a cell phone flashlight compared to the sun. Water for the seedling. Straight 8+pH tap water works (for me) until half nutes and cal-mag, pH'd, twice (using soilless nutes) when the first serrated leaves show up. No need to water past the drip line (edge) of the canopy. Water when dry. You can let a plant get bone dry for a day with no ill effects if your humidity and temperatures are decent. I rarely water to all that runoff. Full nutes after first two waterings.
My plants might could be bigger, greener, with nasty buds. I'm okay with that. I get what I get with what I got.
And keep your fans blowing! Circulate, my friend. Circulate!

 

[Shneex0338]

Between soil and coco/perlite, coco/perlite is an absolute snap.
Soil makes me nervous because nutrient issues are harder to deal with than with coco.
Seed to coco. Never worry about light intensity because I follow manufacturer's recommendations and figure my light at 250+ watts is a cell phone flashlight compared to the sun. Water for the seedling. Straight 8+pH tap water works (for me) until half nutes and cal-mag, pH'd, twice (using soilless nutes) when the first serrated leaves show up. No need to water past the drip line (edge) of the canopy. Water when dry. You can let a plant get bone dry for a day with no ill effects if your humidity and temperatures are decent. I rarely water to all that runoff. Full nutes after first two waterings.
My plants might could be bigger, greener, with nasty buds. I'm okay with that. I get what I get with what I got.
And keep your fans blowing! Circulate, my friend. Circulate!

The light intensity part really confuses me though, I currently don't know if my plant got too much light, or not. Check out this image:



The serrated edges are "curling" for some reason, almost everywhere. This looks like light stress for me, doesn't it? Well this "light stress" happened at just 15DLI, or around 250PPFD, WAY under the manufacturers recommendation, like WAY lower. This is what currently still confuses me and makes me unsure about what exactly that is. Can it be a symptom of the overwatering I had? Or is it too much light? I'll never understand what's going on in this case, I'll just have to wait and see how it grows now.