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can anyone exsplain why/how defoling increases yeilds?
- Thread starter tyler_ hobbyist
- Start date
tyler_ hobbyist
New member
Thank you very much for this reply its a very good read and im thankful to have this knowledge 
tyler_ hobbyist
New member
Im getting a new grow going and I will try 25percent defoling 1plant that is right beside one that wount be and every other varuable will be the same
PaganRich
New member
@Danofdanger-regarding the above, just to clarify...What I refer to as heavy defoliation means that I remove approx 80% of leaves. You are right when you said there were more leaves because defoliation can produce greater leaf growth. Some strains do respond better to this tech than others but that can be genetics. I think the only way is for more of us to run grow comparisons. Whilst it may lack the controls it as least gives the general idea of how things work and photo`s are a great tool to show others what has been found. You are wrong by saying I`ve mixed pictures up, what I claim is a plant getting lighter defoliation than the other, is what it is, I am very careful to identify the correct plant. There may be a mistake but that would be accidental
GanjaGed
New member
I don't think anything was mixed on purpose, and I don't even know if accidentally, but for myself I do have a hard time differentiating between the twp plants and the training difference. I would thinks it's more an illusion of a picture and in actual view the difference is quite noticeable.
DrPhoton
New member
I have done further research into the subject with some heavy reading in plant leaf anatomy and physiology, really really grand findings. Also branched out more on further theory and information. Including looking at the opinions of some of the most well respected cannabis botanists such as Robert C. Clarke, Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal. Who all conclude what i suggest. I now believe i have enough understanding to answer the question for myself and to quantify any theory thrown at defoliation.
I would love to digress all my research but i am exhausted from the last few days. What i will say, that from all this, what i have concluded is follows.
No theory currently available on the issue stands up, after learning more about plant biology and relooking at the issue, it becomes more apparent how ridiculous it is.
If you trust some of the best botanists in cannabis, follow their work, read their books. Then at least trust them when they also say that traditional defoliation has no bearing on improved plant performance.
What does help and is commonly accepted is the traditional work of pruning in horticulture.
Removal of plant matter to improve airflow, reduce humidity, prevent disease or to maintain a plants structure to facilitate an environment, are all viable methods to improve a plants performance. This can be things such as lollipopping, lower growth removal, plant training techniqies.
I am always open to a convincing argument or new information so this is always welcome. However as far as i am concerned, this subject is now closed for myself.
I would love to digress all my research but i am exhausted from the last few days. What i will say, that from all this, what i have concluded is follows.
No theory currently available on the issue stands up, after learning more about plant biology and relooking at the issue, it becomes more apparent how ridiculous it is.
If you trust some of the best botanists in cannabis, follow their work, read their books. Then at least trust them when they also say that traditional defoliation has no bearing on improved plant performance.
What does help and is commonly accepted is the traditional work of pruning in horticulture.
Removal of plant matter to improve airflow, reduce humidity, prevent disease or to maintain a plants structure to facilitate an environment, are all viable methods to improve a plants performance. This can be things such as lollipopping, lower growth removal, plant training techniqies.
I am always open to a convincing argument or new information so this is always welcome. However as far as i am concerned, this subject is now closed for myself.
tyler_ hobbyist
New member
Can u upload some of the info/links for these well know botanists I would love to read more. Thank u so much for all ur reserch and time its well appricated
DrPhoton
New member
You will have to read their books, they have produced some stunning work. Robert C. Clarke specializes in ethnobotany, which is the relationship between plants and people. His books are really heavy. I struggle to tackle it.
Ed Rosenthal is not a botanist, however he is a horticulturist and has been very consistant with what i have read from him.
Mel frank i do not know much about however he has aparently a very detailed book that i am planning to read soon.
Robert C. Clark
Mel Frank
Ed Rosenthal
Ed Rosenthal is not a botanist, however he is a horticulturist and has been very consistant with what i have read from him.
Mel frank i do not know much about however he has aparently a very detailed book that i am planning to read soon.
Robert C. Clark
Mel Frank
Ed Rosenthal
Sheesh
New member
We defoliate probably a bit more than a lot of growers would recommend but here's the thing with our grow - due to schedule, have to grow in the hot, humid months and can only keep humidity around 50 - 55 RH during flower. It's the best we can do with the space and using portable A/C and a decent sized dehumidifier. Humidity can get to high 50's even low 60's sometimes. So, we're pruning for airflow and separation of the leaves. If we leave the plants alone, leaves stack and we get wet spots. That with the borderline humidity concerns me so we pluck. At the end of the day, the grows give us nice buds and never had PM or mold (knock on wood). I'm sure a side by side may prove we could do better if we left more leaves on the plant. My point is that studies may show no advantage in yield by defoliating but in my case defoliation helps reduce risk of issues.
Weed Pharma
New member
My contribution to unsuccessful defoliation- side-by-side:
http://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ydro-led-roots-organic-soil-tahoe-og-kush-50g
http://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...ydro-led-roots-organic-soil-tahoe-og-kush-50g
DrPhoton
New member
Leafing
Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis.cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long non inductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the non inductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light. In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds. Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change. If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack. It should be remembered that, regardless of strain or environmental conditions, the plant strives to reproduce, and reproduction is favored by early maturation. This produces a situation where plants are trying to mature and reproduce as fast as possible. Although the purpose of leafing is to speed maturation, disturbing the natural progressive growth of a plant probably interferes with its rapid development. Cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of Cannabis will affect productivity. Imaginative combinations and adaptations of propagation techniques exist, based on specific situations of cultivation. Logical choices are made to direct the natural growth cycle of Cannabis to favor the timely maturation of those products sought by the cultivator, without sacrificing seed or clone production.
Cannabis Botany from R.C. Clark.
Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis.cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long non inductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the non inductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light. In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds. Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change. If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack. It should be remembered that, regardless of strain or environmental conditions, the plant strives to reproduce, and reproduction is favored by early maturation. This produces a situation where plants are trying to mature and reproduce as fast as possible. Although the purpose of leafing is to speed maturation, disturbing the natural progressive growth of a plant probably interferes with its rapid development. Cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of Cannabis will affect productivity. Imaginative combinations and adaptations of propagation techniques exist, based on specific situations of cultivation. Logical choices are made to direct the natural growth cycle of Cannabis to favor the timely maturation of those products sought by the cultivator, without sacrificing seed or clone production.
Cannabis Botany from R.C. Clark.
DrPhoton
New member
Pruning
Indoors, the canopy absorbs virtually all the light, leaving little in the shadows below. For this reason, the understory below the canopy contributes little energy to the plant. Instead, it costs the plant nutrients, increases humidity, and stops air-flow.
Pruning the lower limbs creates more air-flow under the plants and creates cuttings for cloning. It also forces the plants growth to the top limbs that get the most light, maximizing yield. These lower leaves and branches should be removed to create and open airspace.
Ed Rosenthal.
Indoors, the canopy absorbs virtually all the light, leaving little in the shadows below. For this reason, the understory below the canopy contributes little energy to the plant. Instead, it costs the plant nutrients, increases humidity, and stops air-flow.
Pruning the lower limbs creates more air-flow under the plants and creates cuttings for cloning. It also forces the plants growth to the top limbs that get the most light, maximizing yield. These lower leaves and branches should be removed to create and open airspace.
Ed Rosenthal.
DrPhoton
New member
Pruning.
Under sunlight, you can expect to harvest a plant with strong colas on every branch, rather than one large top cola and much smaller branch, if you clip the top growing shoot about two weeks before flowering. Under weaker electric light, removing the top shoot may result in smaller buds and possibly a smaller harvest. Don't use late pruning as a general procedure under artificial lights, except as a last resort when one or two plants are outgrowing the rest of the crop. These fast-growing plants prevent the light from being positioned closer to all the plant tops. Bending and training these tallest plants is the best procedure.
When the plants first start to flower, clip off the lowest, under-developed branches. These branches won't be worthwhile buds anyway, and by removing them, the stem and root system feed only the strong branches, which consequently yield larger buds. Removing lower branches also allows reflected light to better illuminate the whole plant and promotes better air circulation.
Once the buds begin to form, remove some of the large fan leaves along the main stem. This allows the light to reach the lower buds and they'll develop more 'fully'. Don't over do it; once a leaf forms it produces more "growth energy" for the rest of the plant. If you strip a plant of its leaves, your lessening its capacity for growth. Removing most of the health leaves also can delay flowering. In an outdoor plot, plants stripped of leaves flowered two weeks later than their sisters that were left intact. Under lights, remove only some upper main stem fan leaves that shade lower branches.
Mel Frank.
Under sunlight, you can expect to harvest a plant with strong colas on every branch, rather than one large top cola and much smaller branch, if you clip the top growing shoot about two weeks before flowering. Under weaker electric light, removing the top shoot may result in smaller buds and possibly a smaller harvest. Don't use late pruning as a general procedure under artificial lights, except as a last resort when one or two plants are outgrowing the rest of the crop. These fast-growing plants prevent the light from being positioned closer to all the plant tops. Bending and training these tallest plants is the best procedure.
When the plants first start to flower, clip off the lowest, under-developed branches. These branches won't be worthwhile buds anyway, and by removing them, the stem and root system feed only the strong branches, which consequently yield larger buds. Removing lower branches also allows reflected light to better illuminate the whole plant and promotes better air circulation.
Once the buds begin to form, remove some of the large fan leaves along the main stem. This allows the light to reach the lower buds and they'll develop more 'fully'. Don't over do it; once a leaf forms it produces more "growth energy" for the rest of the plant. If you strip a plant of its leaves, your lessening its capacity for growth. Removing most of the health leaves also can delay flowering. In an outdoor plot, plants stripped of leaves flowered two weeks later than their sisters that were left intact. Under lights, remove only some upper main stem fan leaves that shade lower branches.
Mel Frank.