HELP! Need help thanks for any advice

[Blowinnheavy420]

6 are a month and 5 days old and 5 of them are just 5 days shy of a month old do they look like there growing okay? To me they seem small after seeing other people’s grows. I’ve done a little bit of lst on 2 of the plants and they seem to be fine just think they all should be bigger for how old they are. I’m using coco/perlite 70/30, general hydroponics flora trio for nutrients, 2 300w viparspectra leds in a 4x4x6 tent watering in between every feeding any advice would be awesome

 

[alltatup]

Hi there, you're right: they're definitely small for 5 weeks. If your root system isn't able to expand, your plant won't grow. Should you water the pots a bit more?

 

[Blowinnheavy420]

I just transplanted and topped about 5 of them from solo cups to the 3 gallon fabric pots they seem to like it a lot better then the solo cups when I took them out of the cups the roots looked good on all of them but a couple had roots wrapped around the bottom pretty heavily Idk if that could be why they wasn’t growing anymore? And I’ve been giving them more water the bigger they get I didn’t want to over feed them it’s my first grow so I’m kinda new to this I’m feeding them 4 ml of flora grow 2 ml of flora micro and 1 ml of flora bloom for every gallon of water thanks for you feed back

 

[oldjarhead100]

hey Heavy atu is correct they are a little behind ,in coco you are actually growing in hydro I know right , when I start seeds I start giving them a very lite grow solution and a full strength voodoo juice solution this jump starts the roots and keeps them steadily growing ,when they get transplanted I increase nutes until I get a small amount of tip burn then back off a little, there are 2 ways to grow in coco one is to water then let dry this works great but you have to flush out the build up of nutes 3 or 4 times a grow,I use a water meter to test if the plant is dry but you can stick your finger in to the first knuckle if you feel wet dont water . the other way is to set up a auto watering system this is what I do and I feed them 4 times a day I water until there is a little run off this washes out the extra nutes. I hope you had holes in those solo cups if not thats why they are small

 

[az2000]

Do you have an extraction fan in the tent? (Are they getting fresh air?). How high is the light? (I think they' stretch if that were a problem).How much are you feeding? (the ppm not counting the water. What is the water's ppm too?).

It looks like you're pouring around the stalk, leaving the outer edge dry. You should pour over the entire medium and get 10-20% runoff. This ensures no dry spots, and will wash away unused nutrients. (I've never grown in coco. But, from what I've read, you'll feed strongly each watering and with a lot of runoff because coco (soilless) can accumulate unused salts. I think alternating feed/water is more of a soil style. I've grown in soilless (peat) using GH Flora 3-part. It was my impression that you want to keep the supply of nutrients going to the roots. There's no other nutrients for the plant to use (hence "soilless"). I don't think water-only would make much sense unless you had salt buildup and needed to "flush." But, the idea is to keep the runoff high (to manage that on a continual basis), and keep the fresh nutrients coming each watering.

 

[Blowinnheavy420]

hey AZ, The light is 24” away from the tops of the plants and yes I have an exhaust fan pulling hot air out of the tent and a inline fan pulling fresh air into the bottom of the tent I don’t have a ppm meter yet I still have yet to find a cheap one that works same with a ph meter but I just use the liquid test indicater from the ph up/down to ensure the ph is between 5.5-6.5. And so I should feed nutrients every time I water unless I have salt build up? I thought that’s how I should do it but didn’t want to mess things up but looks like I did anyway lol

 

[az2000]

I think the alternate feed-water is done in soil to give the microbes some time to recover from the nutrients, digest them, interact with the roots. I grow in soil, and I feed lightly each feeding because I figure it's "6 of one, half dozen of the other." I.e., feed twice as strong every other time. Or, half as strong each time. I just figure it's better to get the nutrients into the soil in a more timely manner. Not heavy/nothing cycles. (But, it may work better heavy/nothing. I don't know. Never actually tried it. Just offering my reasoning.).

I started growing in soilless, like you. But, I used Pro-Mix HP (which contains 35% perlite) mixed with 25% more perlite. 1-2 Tbsp/gal dolomite mixed in too. I used GH Flora 3-part following the "useless schedule" (you can google for it. It's on the growkind forum). It worked very well. If I did it again, I would cut the nutrient strength 10-20%.

Anyway, my point is: soilless has more in common with hydro than it does soil. You're delivering the nutrirents directly to the roots. I'm sure there's some microbial activity in soilless. But, it's not like soil where microbes break down organic matter. In soilless you're feeding chelated nutrients, instantly available to the roots (almost).

So, in soiless, I don't see any point alternating between strong and water-only. Since the plant is getting everything it needs (from you, in almost-immediately-available form), it's more like an IV plugged directly into the plant. A constant supply is better (like in a hydro reservoir).

How much GH 3-part (each bottle) are you mixing (in a gallon or liter). I can tell you how strong that should be (based on the labeled content).

 

[Blowinnheavy420]

Okay I’m gonna try and start giving them nutrients every watering and see how that works out for me. I appreciate your advice. And I’m using 4 ml of flora grow/ 2ml flora micro/ 1 ml flora bloom for every gallon of water.

how would I go about setting up a watering system that gives them exactly the amount they need? Without me having to hand water?

 

[az2000]

And I’m using 4 ml of flora grow/ 2ml flora micro/ 1 ml flora bloom for every gallon of water.

I'm sure your problem is the amount you feed. That's very weak for soilless. That mixture creates a very nice NPK ratio 2.1-1-3.31. But, it's only 200ppm. Soillesss is usually up in the 600-1000ppm range. And that's *every* watering.

I don't now how to guide you because I haven't grown in coco. It's different than peat in some ways. I would google to find grow journals. etc. concerning "coco and General Hydroponics Flora Series 3-part." Try to find what someone else has done, and just copy it. (That's what I did with the "useless" schedule, which is for hydro. But, works in peat-based soilless. PH is different in peat-based soilless. It's like 5.8-6.0 in veg, and 6.0-6.2 in flower. It might work with coco-based soilless too. But, I'm nervous to recommend it because I always here about people having peculiar coco problems. There are "lineups" made for coco specifically.).

General Hydroponics - Flora Series 3-part - schedule.pdf

I unpacked three different GH Flora 3-part schedules, figuring out the NPK ratio they create, and the PPM strength. I've attached that to this post. The "useless" schedule is represented there too. Those might give you some idea how strong you can go. But... again, coco may be different. (The PPMs are nnn/nnn. Just look at the first nnn, on the left side of the "/". The actual mixed ppms will be 10-20% higher. The NPK label is just a guaranteed *minimum*. Typically those numbers aren't precise, and 1ml will contain more than the label suggests it does.).

 

[az2000]

Also, if you're in the US, your water provider is required to publish an "annual water quality report." That will tell you a lot about your tap water. In many areas, the tap water is not suitable for growing. Often it will have very high ppm (which the report will tell you). That can interfere with the uptake of nutrients. (My tap water is 700ppm. When I first grew, they sat and did nothing like yours are doing.).

You should be able to google for it. If you're not in the US, your water provider should tell you the info if you call them. It's common water chemistry stuff which I'm sure they can recite in their sleep. It would be good to rule out your tap water. (I have to mix 20% of my tap with RO water to get a starting 150ppm +/- 50ppm. When I started doing that it made an *enormous* difference compared to mixing 600ppm nutrients to 700ppm tap water, most of which was junk ppms like soidum and sulfates.).

 

[Tersky]

Are you using any cal-mag supplement? Coco needs cal-mag ive found. I forgot to charge two of my pots before planting and it took a while for them to catch up to my other two plants. They were very runty like yours. I use the schedule on the website and feed with every watering with 20% runoff.

 

[Blowinnheavy420]

Az is the ratio on the feeding chart you posted by ml/gal? I’m gonna try and use the advice you’ve given me and see if that helps me get going better than I’m doing now cuz something obviously isn’t working right.

and tersky no I’m not using cal-mag I may invest in it very soon as I’m hearing and seeing from a couple ppl that I should be using it with coco just haven’t had the funds.

 

[az2000]

The amounts are ml/gal. The ratios are 1-based. I.e., a product labeled 4-6-8 is a ratio 1-1.5-2. The label represents both strength and ratio. (I like to think of those separately, so they're easier to compare in my head, and know what I'm manipulating: ratio or ppm. It's opaque when they're wrapped together, like a product label.).

I'd really suggest finding a GH Flora 3-part schedule for coco. Something someone's done, knows it works. I think I recall the so-called "Lucas" schedule was created specifically for coco. (It uses Micro & Bloom by themselves, without Grow.). I could be wrong. But, there must be something out there. If you found a schedule to follow, it's easy to figure out the NPK ratio & ppm strength of each week's mixture (for comparison to the those other schedules).

As a matter of trivia (regarding "calmag"). You can use epsom salt and gypsum. Much cheaper. (A small dose of Botanicare CalMag+ is 5ml/gal, which produces 45ppm Ca & 17ppm Mg.). You can use 0.75g/gal gypsum to create 46ppm Ca. And, 0.75g/gal epsom salt creates 21ppm Mg.

It's easier to use "calmag." But, a $2 bag of epsom at from the pharmacy will last you a decade. (Gypsum is similarly cheap.).

 

[Blowinnheavy420]

Okay thank you I’m gunna try a different ratio of nutrients (more) and see if that helps or see what it does in general, I’ve been alternating feeding every other water and I haven’t been watering the whole pot which both could be my problem, so I probably have been just washing the nutrients that it needs right out and that’s why they are growing so slowly. The picture I attached is some nutrient samples I got from my local grow shop would this work as a replacement for the cal mag?

 

[homegrown]

hey BH420,As well as the nutes, i would bring your lights down probably 2 inches. My tent is near the same size, w/ 2 VS600's I ran them at 22" for complete grow and light burn/heat was never an issue.
i have a new grow started and my lights are at 18" right now(thats 6" lower than manufacturer recommendations)..im monitoring them closely for burn or heat stress. .all good so far. just wanna see if growth and bud development are any different second time around w/more light. hg

 

[Tersky]

Ive been looking for a way to check whats in the tap water. My tap water is 8.5ph and almost 300 ppm, not the worst but something in there makes adjusting the ph for my hydro and coco a pain in the ass! Takes way too many drops to bring it down. I didnt know where to find it or what to look for but now i do. Thanks az! Once again there you go droppin some knowledge on me!

 

[az2000]

The picture I attached is some nutrient samples I got from my local grow shop would this work as a replacement for the cal mag?

Does the bag say anything about what its content is? (Guaranteed analysis? Whether it's carbonates, sulfate, chloride, nitrate?). The only thing I saw on their web site is that it's 12-2-12 (with 6% Ca, 3% Mg).

Botanicare Cal-Mag+ is 2-0-0 (3.2% Ca, 1.2% Mg). If you fed enough of that sample to get the same Ca & Mg, you'll be feeding substantial amounts of N, P & K.

It could be good stuff. But, if you follow a schedule for GH Flora 3-part, you'll be altering its NPK ratio considerably. IMO, that's more of a fertilizer product than a "calmag".

I can't stress enough: the best thing to do (first grow) is follow what someone does. If you start using different things because you have a good feeling about... that's how new growers get into trouble. Follow a known gold-standard, and then experiment with things. You'll have a baseline to compare against.

It's possible that nutrient seller created that "calmag" product to work with their "system." Their base nutrients may depend on that 12-2-12 to arrive at a planned NPK ratio. Honestly, I would stay away from boutique products like that. Cannabis doesn't need special nutrients. Much of the cannabis-themed products are overly expensive. You're paying for the resulting NPK ratio (which you can create yourself). Their often designed to work together as a system (and lock you into that "lineup") because all you know is "5ml of the cross-eyed giraffe, 2ml of Einstein picking his nose, and 8ml of smiling monkey produce really good results." All the plant sees is NPK ratio and strength. Those cannabis-themed "lineups" obscure that less subjective information. It becomes an all-or-nothing proposition. The amount of NPK that "calmag" product has tells me, it may be part of a "lineup" that way, and may not work well by itself.

I'm just saying, if you use one "lineup" product that way, oddball stuff... you could stumble onto something very useful. Or, you could cause yourself problems. It's probably going to be a flip of a coin which way that goes (unless you vary the GH Flora 3-part schedule to accommodate this "calmag's" unusual NPK level). I just think for a first grow, it's a no brainer: Stay within the lines. Follow *exactly* what someone does. Develop a baseline to compare to (when you start experimenting, learning to read your plants, etc.). Playing around with odd stuff like this is inviting problems.

 

[Sww]

They are OK for 4 weeks old. If you want grow fast you must get all the environment right. Light nuts temps etc. 🙂

 

[Blowinnheavy420]

Just a lil update for you guys I think they are looking way better it’s been only 5 days since I made this post and I already see a dramatic amount of growth compared to the pics I posted on this post 5 days ago. Been feeding them every night to 20% run off 2 hrs before lights out, gh 3 part nutes 4 ml micro/gal 5 ml grow/gal and 1 ml bloom per gallon of water they seem to like it very much thank you to all of you for your feedback. What you guys think? They doing better?

 

[homegrown]

shit! your gonna have your hands full in a month..lol their growing well now.. that tent is gonna be PACKED! read up on defoliation...