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THC & CBD Percentages: Anyone else run into low-THC strains that feel "strong"?

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    THC & CBD Percentages: Anyone else run into low-THC strains that feel "strong"?

    I tried a local strain today called Lemony Snickett, pictured here. I'd say it's about average as far as overall appearance:


    The smell is vaguely reminiscent of Citrus, but there isn't a particularly strong taste or smell when smoking.

    In this case, first impressions were deceiving. I was dazzled by the effects of it! I felt giggly and relaxed, and almost like my vision was altered, in a good way! The effects were strong and long-lasting.

    I learned that despite the above-average effects, this whole batch of buds was selling poorly at the local dispensaries, even at a clearance price of $125/ounce. It doesn't have a particularly notable smell or appearance, but the nail in the coffin was the results it got during cannabinoid testing. It tested at less than 12% THC.



    In my experience with dispensaries in Southern California, it seems like low cannabinoid numbers are almost a dealbreaker. There's a premium on buds that test very high in THC, and most of the buds you see on the shelves at dispensaries test between 18-30% THC. It's a good selling point to have high numbers on the label.

    Yet in this case, I feel like the results of cannabinoid testing didn't predict the "strength" of the Lemony Snicket buds at all. I feel like the grower should almost leave off the percentages off the label, and sell these particular buds purely on the merits of their effects!

    I've had this happen before with other strains, and I've also experienced the opposite where buds produced weak effects even though they tested above 30% THC!

    Certain low-THC buds feel strong, while some high-THC buds feel relatively weak.

    There is obviously a lot more going on in cannabis buds than just THC and CBD ratios, and we only have a small understanding of the effects of other cannabinoids. We do know that higher levels of CBD tends to make THC feel less "strong" (anything above 1% CBD is often considered to be "high" CBD). But even when CBD is not there, the THC ratios are still only a loose predictor of "potency".

    We know that smelly substances known as terpenes have some effect, and we also know that curing buds for 2-4+ weeks increases their perceived potency significantly, even though their THC percentages basically stay the same. The overall effect of buds on top of THC/CBD percentages is sometimes called the "entourage effect", which is a nice way of saying we don't understand why certain strains feel so strong!



    Certain nugs on the plant (specifically the leafy tiny nugs near the bottom with lots of sparkle) tend to test for high THC ratios for some reason, even though they don't smoke particularly differently from actual buds. Placement also varies by strain. Growers who are in-the-know can improve their cannabinoid numbers slightly by choosing buds from specific parts of the plant, and some will send in multiple samples so they can choose the best result.

    Airy yet sparkly buds from the bottom of the plant may test higher for THC ratios compared to other buds on the plant, even though these leafy buds aren't particularly stronger when smoking.



    To throw another wrench into the mix, the cannabinoid testing only tests the ratios of cannabinoids. It doesn't test the overall amount of cannabinoids. So you could have trichome-encrusted buds with 100x the overall amount of cannabinoids compared to another batch of buds, resulting in far stronger effects, yet still possibly test lower in THC percentages.


    What are your thoughts on cannabinoid testing?

    #2
    I've definitely run into that myself; the most unassuming looking weed with not a lot of crystals has floored me, and the sparkliest most beautiful weed has left me wanting more. I think we'd know a lot more on the full effects with the federal scheduling out of the way, so research could get moving on a large scale. It's amazing how much is known about it, but there's so much yet to learn. Such an incredible plant!

    Comment


      #3
      i invite absolutely everyone to hold on your hand the best bud you can get or even think of, and really really ask yourself. Is more than a quarter just THC? Can this be possible with all that plant matter and stems and leaves and just a little tricomes? And then the tricomes themselves have fats and oils in them. just A tinny percentage is THC. Do you really feel convinced 30% of what you're holding is THC? Regular wax and bho are in the 60-80 THC. How could a bud have half the THC that this oils Do? Why can't you get 30 grams of bho when you run 100 grams of bud?? It's just none sense. The testing is rigged

      Comment


      • DrPhoton
        DrPhoton commented
        Editing a comment
        No disrespect fingerleaf, but i have overviewed the parameters of both gas and liquid chromatography and understand how their results are established. The only problem i have are that from liquid chromatography and how some labs derive their results. But that comes down to poor chemistry math when they calculate the total percentage from THCA and THC. This has been noted by some labs and is easily rectified by overviewing and reanalyzing the raw data. The results are never permenently skewed.

        If you can show if what i know is not the case, please do. But trust me that i have scoured the net when i was researching this last year and i believe the system is quite flawless, or practally anyway.
        If you would like to know further more i can elaborate.

      • 9fingerleafs
        9fingerleafs commented
        Editing a comment
        hey dano check out the article i shared below, its from this year. im not saying the testing method is not scientifically accurate, im saying there are a lot of reasons why labs inflate their results and they are just inconsistent, the lowest test on the artiicle is 13% and the highest was 26%. there are social, economical and private interest and reasons to keep the scores high

      • DrPhoton
        DrPhoton commented
        Editing a comment
        Yea i agree with you on the inconsistancies between labs, there doesn't appear to be clear cut protocols. However, i do want to reiterate, that they do measure weight vs weight. Also their results would likely be only ever undervalued never overvalued (except when applying incorrect chemistry math when calculating total THC). But personally i would be reading the raw data myself.

      #4
      CBN are highly overlooked. They IIRC they control how the body reacts to THC CBD and others.

      THC/CBD/CBN

      9%/.09%/.09%

      1/1/1

      Would be a baseline. That's the theory​ behind a true "1to1".
      Completed #1: http://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/...dwc-apocalypse

      My forever grow.

      2x400w MH/HPS (veg 6/2 /flower 12/12)

      100w t-5 (nursery)

      6"can fan and filter 480cfm max set to 240cfm exhausted outside.

      Blue Planet Nutrients Farmer's Pride Organic
      .
      5gal. Eco Oganics pots.

      Coco soil and pearl

      Light cycle: 6/2 veg. 12/12 flower


      https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum...-well-sort-of

      Friendly advice:
      If you want to grow top shelf weed, arm yourself with knowledge:
      http://www.growweedeasy.com/basics

      Comment


      • NebulaHaze
        NebulaHaze commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, CBN levels are determined primarily by harvest time, and how long the buds have been curing. Early harvested and fresh buds tend to have lower levels of CBN, while later-harvested and well-cured buds tend to have higher levels of CBN.

        It's said that a lot of CBN adds to a relaxing quality and is somewhat psychedelic (though not as much as THC), but like you said, we don't have a whole lot of research yet on CBN!

      • POKEDSMOT
        POKEDSMOT commented
        Editing a comment
        All I really know is that humans have been using this plant for over 10,000 years for medicinal purposes and have only in the last 40 years have come to understand and research it. Not to mention hemp. Were it not for nylon think of the products that weren't developed from hemp.

      #5
      This is called the endogenous cannabinoid system.
      I wrote a little bit about it in a thread of mine here.



      Heres a snippet.
      "CBD is actually non psychoactive but it plays a role in the overall effect of cannabis. CBD is generally considered to have more medicinal properties than THC. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation (and thereby also migraines), anxiety and nausea. That is why strains with a high concentration of CBD is suitable for medicinal use.
      Trials have actually been done with IV synthetic THC and CBD. What they found was that anxiety and discomfort (schizophrenia) was significantly reduced when THC was administered with CBD. Even though CBD is not psychoactive, it obviously has an effect on the characterstics of how THC interacts with the CB recepters. This interaction has been commenly referred to as the endogenous cannabinoid system. This is not limited to CBD and infact is all over the board with other cannabinoids. This truely shows its complexity. CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 recepter than for the CB1 recepter, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains like hemp."
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      Comment


      • DrPhoton
        DrPhoton commented
        Editing a comment
        This might interest you too.



        You will have to excuse my poor gramma and use of words. One thing i fall short on is my vocabulary. I actually have a revised version of the trichomes thread but have kept it internal among friends.

      • oldjarhead100
        oldjarhead100 commented
        Editing a comment
        dano I have found that if I use a cbd plant it doesn't stop the pain as well as when thc is present (that might be a mind game) I grew a strain called cbd with low thc and it just doesn't stop the pain as well as a thc/cbd strain. I keep trying new strains until I find something that works good .but I keep at least 3 different strains because I've found I build up a tolerance when I use one strain only plus the upside is when I come back to a strain its usually like holy shit I dont remember it being this good lol

      • DrPhoton
        DrPhoton commented
        Editing a comment
        I wouldnt expect a CBD exclusive strain to have as much effect on pain, mostly because its not a physcoactive cannabinoid. For symptom relief, physcoactive THC strains should be the focus as its effects transcened downwards through the nervous system to alleviate multiple symptomatic expressions such as nausia, pain, discomfort, apetite etc. I should also mention that each strain has many other cannabinoids which alter or change the characteristic of how THC interacts with the body. So even if you have two strains with very similar THC to CBD ratio, the rest of the cannabinoids can make the two strains be completely different because of the previously mentioned endogenous cannabinoid system.
        What you are probably finding with your tolerance build up and recovery between strains, is the very aspect of how cannabinoids interacts with our CB recepters. Each strain holds the potential to have unique characteristics on our recepters and each time you change strain, you potentially alleviate some of your dependence. But this is going into unproven grounds and just based on my current understanding of human biology and my own "wide" experience of drug use.
        Its truely interesting though.
        Last edited by DrPhoton; 04-29-2017, 06:48 AM.

      #6
      I just want to add this extract submitted by Washington cannabis farmers council about his subject. This is from February of this year
      A white paper on cannabis potency testing and labeling that has been submitted to the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board by the Cannabis Farmers Council.

      Comment


      • Jason
        Jason commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you for posting that. Very informative. I guess I won't be paying for any testing any time soon.

      • DrPhoton
        DrPhoton commented
        Editing a comment
        The deviations come from different protocols and standards used, also the level of care and controlled variability during the process. More higher quality labs will ensure these variables change as little as possible but yes these deficiencies can occur.

      #7
      NebulaHaze check that text. Paragraph (g) refer to those low THC but very strong weed

      Comment


        #8
        Hey, thanks for that! A great link I hadn't seen before! I'm not going to lie, when I saw that I suddenly wanted to publish my own paper

        Comment


        • 9fingerleafs
          9fingerleafs commented
          Editing a comment
          You totally should and thank you for helping us share information

        • bobsakamoto
          bobsakamoto commented
          Editing a comment
          do it!!!

        #9
        I'm not sure if someone mentioned it above, but could it be a high THCv strain? I heard they are pretty rare. But the effects you had sound about right. Did you have the munches?


        I'm thankful for this "growing" community and for this plant!


        Romans 10:9, 10 Jesus is Lord!

        Comment


        • NebulaHaze
          NebulaHaze commented
          Editing a comment
          I am looking into this now, what an interesting cannabinoid! I can't wait until we can actually research cannabis properly!

        • fozzy
          fozzy commented
          Editing a comment
          Me too!!!

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