Need flushing/harvesting advice from veterans (Bubbleponics/DWC with LED lights)

[247Mutha]

Hello All,

Just turned 40 last week, but when it comes to marijuana I am still a baby. I was introduced to medical marijuana via treatment for Lyme disease which caused me terrible nausea. It has been a medicinal miracle for me so I decided to get my green card and start growing. Thanks to the incredible amount of information and support on this site, I have managed to stumble through my first grow, but not without my share of newbie mistakes.

My setup was inspired by Sirius Fourside's "Top-Fed DWC Cannabis Setup Guide - Bubbleponics" found here.

I bought 4x4 foot grow tent, but had to skimp on the lights. I ended up with a 120 watt LED that I bought for $30 (here) for the vegetative stage and added a 300w LED (here) when it was clear I was low on light for flowering. From what I've read, I'm still low on light but wanted to prove I could grow something before I made a bigger investment.

I spend a lot of time practicing fimming, topping, LST and supercropping during veg. I started with six non-feminized seeds, but only 5 sprouted. Weirdly, all female. I have two 10 gallon tubs and kept one plant which I really LST'd in one and three plants, which I pretty much just fimmed or topped in the other, just to compare growth patterns and yields of 1 large plant vs. 3 smaller ones.

For flowering, I have been defoliating regularly (I'm having a hell of a time keeping humidity under 50% so mold is a concern), just taking the bigger fan leaves and cleared a lot of the lower stuff. The biggest mistakes I made during flowering were, I left a 60watt equivalent regular led light, which I use to check the color on for about a week during the 12/12 cycle, so out of nowhere, they had 7 days with no darkness. Next, we had a family trip, so I had to leave them unattended for 8 days and when I got back the temperature in the grow room was at 89 degrees. I have no idea how long (generally I keep it between 70-75 degrees). They are Sativa dominant hybrids, so I'm hoping they managed the heat okay.

I am on day 55 of the 12/12 cycle. The strains are Tardis (here) which has a 56 to 63-day flowering cycle and Nurse Jackie (here) which reports the same 56 to 63. Hopefully, you can see from the attached pictures some of the pistils look like they need more time and others look pretty ripe. I had planned to start flushing today, but I don't want to miss the harvesting window. I looked at some buds and sugar leaves under the microscope (it's the old manual kind so no pics) and they look mostly cloudy with a few slightly amber ones here and there. I feel like the buds are relatively small, but that may just be due to not receiving enough light. They have fattened up a lot over the past 8 days.

If anyone has thoughts on how much longer to wait until harvest, I would love the feedback. Also, I'd love to get some feminized seeds out of this. My clones died while I was out of town and I'm happy with these genetics, at least in terms of resiliency. Also, I have never smoked, so far I have only been using trim to make butter. It works perfectly for my nausea and I'm very happy with what I assume is the lower potency. When I do trim, do I save everything? Like stems and fan leaves? Or just the frosty stuff?

Would be happy to provide more pictures if necessary. Just wanted to show the difference between pistil color.

Thanks to all of the contributors to this site. It makes this process darn near idiot proof, and I would know!

[Beach_Town_Brit]

Lots of lovely trichomes on those buds, congratulations.

Manufacturer flowering period estimates should be taken with a big grain of salt

Any way to take a pic through that microscope?

If you see amber trichome heads on the buds themselves (not just on the sugar leaves) then you're good to go and should probably start your flush. A clip-on macro lens for a phone can work, but I use the Carson Zorb USB microscope and love it.

The challenge is that those last weeks of flowering before flush and harvest are often the great weight gainers. If they've only been bulking up for a week, there may be a few more weeks left in them.

Are the plants yellowing and dropping their lower leaves yet? I often take that as an indicator that she's getting ready to go.

[247Mutha]

Hi Beach_Town_Brit,

Thank you for your quick reply. Yes, it seems I've moved from the science portion of the grow to more of the art. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. I will try to get some pics through the microscope with my phone. My wife was able to get some decent ones when we were exploring pond water in a search for tardigrades (aka water bears).

There has been no yellowing or dropping leaves, but I have been defoliating pretty regularly, so they are almost lollipop at the bottom. I'll try to get some pictures of that as well and report back.

Thanks again!

Edit to attach picture

[alltatup]

Welcome to forum, Mutha!!! Those triches look clear to me, or not ready to start flush yet...???

[247Mutha]

Update. Bottom leaves look green and healthy. Actually, I was surprised that fan leaves seemed to still be actively growing so much.

[Beach_Town_Brit]

Hey 247, it all looks good and if she's still popping out new lower growth she's still going string.

Hopefully some others will chime in but I'd say those trics are still pretty clear and not yet ready.
Keep watching the trics from different spots across the canopy and you'll see them change and go cloudy.
I never worry about the odd amber tric but if you start to see lots of them then your harvest window is closing.

[247Mutha]

Sounds good. I'll let her grow for a while and keep an eye on things. Thank you! I'll post an updated pic to keep the topic updated.

[Sonnyhad]

Yeah I'd say you have at least 4 weeks.

[247Mutha]

Yeah I'd say you have at least 4 weeks.

Thanks for the input. Are you basing that on the pistils, trics, lower foliage? Or all of the above? If they go 4 more weeks I'm going to be breaking a lot more stems. Already had a couple little ones break from the weight of the flowers. I'm going to need to start propping them up.

Assuming 4 more weeks, would you suggest two more weeks of bloom nutes and then two weeks ph'd water flush? Thanks again.

[NebulaHaze]

Beautiful! I agree it looks like they still have some time left based on the trichomes, but on the flip side some of the buds are starting to look more close. Is it possible to post a picture of the entire plant in the setup and a few more pictures of different buds? You're right that it starts to become an art at the end, since each plant, environment, and person is different! Overall everything looks great! It's amazing how the plants can sometimes keep putting out so many leaves when you feel like you just removed them all!

When it comes to saving trim after harvest, I usually only save the leaves that have some amount of "glitter" on them, which usually means I toss the biggest fan leaves. However, some people keep them for juicing, or to try to extract every last bit of "good stuff" from their trim!

[247Mutha]

Thank you NebulaHaze! Added a picture of the whole setup, but it isn't a very good one, but hopefully it will give you an idea of scale and I can compare week to week. I've got the containers in their diagonally so it's really cramped. I'm regretting I didn't SCROG now that the flowers are falling all over each other. Next time! Also included a picture showing six individual buds. The three "riper" looking ones have been under my 120 watt light.

I've been avoiding defoliating any "glittery" leaves and will continue to do so. Thanks for the tip. I'm hoping for a 4/20 harvest, so if she can hold out for 3 weeks that would be great!

[alltatup]

Yes, don't defoliate the trichey leaves!!! Read Nebula's tutorial on making dry ice hash! It's the most fun I've had other than smoking my home grown herb with friends!!!

[NebulaHaze]

It's a fine setup! You've got some nice buds developing! I know the pistils are mostly darkened and curled in, but especially when combined with the clear trichomes I still feel like it needs a little more time left, maybe a few weeks. They will also get bigger the whole time! How long do you plan to flush in the DWC setup? The leaves look very healthy but a little on the darker side, so even if you don't start flushing right away, you might consider pulling back the nutrient levels a little so the plant can start using up what's being stored in the leaves. When I grow in DWC it seems like the plant goes downhill pretty fast once you take away ALL the nutrients, so I usually only do a plain water flush for a few days before harvest. That means I don't start flushing until the buds are already basically ready. But I do tend to taper down the nutrient levels as the time gets close, especially if the plant is still looking pretty dark! I always make sure to pH the water right up until harvest day!

As far as bud size, the thing that makes the most difference is light levels. I took a look at your LEDs, and although they're listed as 120W and 300W, those are the "theoretical" watts, and the true wattage being pulled out of the wall with those is approximately 70W and 145W. So your LEDs have a total of 215W of "actual draw". With LEDs, you can generally hope for about 0.5g/watt of actual draw. So 215 watts x 0.5g/watt = 107.5 g or 3.8 oz. So you might hope for 3-4 oz with this grow. These are just theoretical numbers, and the strain and setup make a big difference, but hopefully that help gives you a ballpark idea of what to expect!

I'm not sure what the ceiling of your setup looks like, but if you have something to anchor from the ceiling, you can use plant yo-yos to hold up buds that can't hold themselves up! Your buds are long and look like they're very dense with the way they're falling over like that!

[247Mutha]

Thank you for your thorough response. I will definitely heed your advice. I'll taper down the nutes, give them a couple more weeks to fatten up and then flush a few days before harvest. The most I've ever bought was a gram of bud or an ounce of trim, so I'll be very happy with 3-4 ounces if I get there. Two ounces of trim lasts us about a month (my wife uses it to help her sleep), so this will be a great improvement. I'll order some yoyo's and keep this post updated. Thanks again.

[Weed Pharma]

I grow using LED's and find that it does strange things to pistil color which often prompts growers into early harvesting. You have plenty of time and this is when the buds will fatten up.

When I look at you pics, I would consider doing a staged harvest- taking the ripe buds first (usually the top ones or those falling from their own weight) and then drop the light closer to the "new" canopy over the next 7-10 days.
I do not use DWC and not sure how you would be able to reduce the nutes for the initial harvest without starting the "end" of the entire plant and perhaps others will chime in.

[247Mutha]

Thanks for the info about LED's Weed Pharma. It was definitely the pistil color that had me worrying. Glad I posted here first! From what I've read, it sounds like plants flush fairly quickly with DWC. If I harvest in stages, I'll experiment with brief flushes (24hrs, 48hrs) with ph'd water and then add back some nutes while the rest mature. If NebulaHaze's estimation is in the ballpark, I'll have more than I need to last me until my next harvest, so I don't mind trying things out. Will post some more pics next week. Thanks again!

[Weed Pharma]

I have know others to flush and immediately resume 1/4 nutes- but have not tried it, so very hesitant to recommend as I am a soil grower.

[247Mutha]

Update: Three weeks later

Thanks to everyone for their help so far. Was able to get the yo-yo's, so I've reclaimed my carefully planned canopy (Thanks NebulaHaze!). Unfortunately, I'm still struggling to determine harvest time. Looked at some of the trics today (see pics) and there is a kind of the alarming number of amber ones. The pictures aren't very good, but through the microscope, they look more withered and a lot of them have amber/purple running up the stalk of the trichomes.

Does it look like I'm getting closer? Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help.

[alltatup]

Hey Mutha, NO, they are still clear, they aren't ready!!! Sometimes trichomes show that purple color, but it's not amber, and it's down in the stalk. What you want to see are lots of clear heads turned milky:

http://www.growweedeasy.com/harvest#trichome-method

[247Mutha]

Thank you alltatup. Today is day 76 since I switched to 12/12. I have the timeline all jacked up! I'll keep posting pictures and trust the experts.