Crazy genetics with some seed from same strain

[papasan]

I am an 87 year old grower and have been growing off and on for over 50 years. There are so many seed suppliers now that you simply get cross eyed looking at all of them. You will never find all of them because several new ones crop up almost every day. Years ago you knew what you were getting because you got them from growers who also grew for seeds , you knew them and their product. Granted there were no auto flower , feminized or clones available just seeds and most grows were outside. So much has changed for the better in some things and worse in others, it is here I wish to address the seed market. I grow indoors for personal use and medicinal uses and use hydroponics instead of soil. I love the old strains like Acapulco gold and Durbin Poison and have been growing both with successful harvests however the grow was one of the weirdest I have ever had. I purchased 10 of the Acapulco Gold seeds from a well known supplier whom you all would know at a reasonable price. All of them germinated but two which I still have not started to pop. The seedlings were healthy and uniform and grew to veg quickly, this stage is where crazy stuff started, each of the plants started to grow at different rates very fast one shot up almost 8 inches taller than the rest in a very short time then another stopped growing at all but did not look stressed or diseased and the roots were healthy. The others grew at slower rates but each was at a different height no matter what I did training ,nute mix scrog it didn't matter they refused to grow uniformly. the ones that stopped growing suddenly started back but were dwarfed. these plants were supposed to be quite tall but that only happened on one and it didn't produce a lot of bud. controlling light height height was a nightmare. Finally they all produced bud but not like they should, so
I planted the same strain from same supplier and lo and behold they did the very same thing, I just harvested and the the production was below par with them too. It turns out Acapulco Gold seeds purchased are nowhere near what the true strain is, the suppliers make up plants that will resemble the original and the genetics get screwed up in the process. The true strain seeds are very difficult to find and when you do they are very very expensive so I won't be growing anymore of this strain because they simply are not the original strain. ( before you jump on me please know that I have grown the true strain in the past many times and am very familiar with them). So what kind if any experience have you fine growers had with seeds touted to be a certain strain that were not the real thing? I simply love this strain and am a little sad at what is available now.

[SoOrbudgal]

I can't chime in on this discussion as i've never grown true strain genetics that i'm aware of? I can't be sure of knowing what to look for other than leaf pattern like indica an sativa or hemp. Sorry man

[golfnrl]

Hello papasan welcome to the forum. It is a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I'm impressed. 50 years of growing? Outstanding. I've only been growing a fraction of that time so I'm no horticulture expert. I like growing weed and that's about it. I've read on here and other places on the net about what you are referring to. I grow mostly indoors and have two grow tents set in a lung room (spare BR). I have not had your exact experience but have had several plants that didn't exhibit the same growth patterns as their tent mates. I think what I was seeing is the different phenotypes that make up the so-called 'strain.' Doesn't sound like it but, could it be that is what you're experiencing as well?

I've long wondered about the plethora of strain names. Cultivar, I think is a better term. Some of these have to be born while the people making them up were stoned. But I digress. In my current grow of 100% sativa, two of four plants are about 10" shorter than their tent mates. The two short ones are growing really nice side branches, so are growing out and not up, like a typical sativa will. The cultivar is known for strong side branching. So maybe I'm seeing a little bit of what you are talking about.

My understanding is the continual cross breeding of hybrid cannabis seeds is weakening the overall genetic stability of the plant. And, the continual use of feminized seeds contributes to that. As I understand it to keep genetics strong, cannabis should be grown with the males being removed so that only true natural female plants grow to harvest. Since I have not tried that process I'm relying on readable information. I'm sure someone can correct me or tell me I'm full of it. Nebula continually reminds the forum to always use the best genetics. That's a little difficult considering we only have the reputation and word of the breeder to go on.

I'm interested in growing cultivars from different parts of the world with seeds from those specific places or plants produced with those original seeds. I've started down this road trying to perfect growing 100% sativa cannabis. I still have a ways to go before I embark on a landrace grow. I hear you about the expensive seeds. That's the main reason I want to have a few of these types of grows under my belt before I drop a bunch of cash for landrace cannabis seeds. I can remember from days gone by the Maui Wowie, Panama Red, Thai Stick, etc. that I only heard about but now want to try to find and grow. That might be impossible I suppose but I want to try.

I'll be interested to read what others have to say about this. There are some real experts on this forum that grow in all types of conditions and all types of set ups. Some even breed their plants and produce their own seeds.

[Mucluc]

I am 65 and have found the same discrepancy with different strains. Best you could do is get a good one, keep a mother plant and clone her as much as you need. Problem solved. Happy Growing! I use ILGM.

[Bluey]

I've never bought seed in my life and this current grow is my 3rd indoors from donated seed. Some of my friends buy seed and they often get rubbish or straight out scammed.

I have my own seed stash and like you have been growing outdoors for over 35 years and pretty much only old school sativas. The knew generation often complain 'it's not strong enough' but those who have been around for a bit love it and keep coming back for more and more and more. These old sativas have some wonderful properties.

[Rwise]

Something else to consider, inbreeding, this will get seeds from the original strain, however they may display weird shit, slow growth poor bud development etc..
I grew some col purp haze last year, (reg seed land-race) 2 did just what I expected and the 3rd well the best description I can give is it was non binary, it never even showed prefowers. When I realized it would not finish even if it were flowering, I cut it down, all 12 feet of it.
Males will often grow taller than their female counterparts, not mandatory so dont go pulling the tallest one until it shows male preflowers, just watch and be ready.
I have also read that feminizing is destroying our favorite plant and that doing this can lead to all plants becoming "self pollinating" (we call hermies). Therefore when I make seed from crosses, I like to use a real male to get more stable genetics.

[User420111]

Amen. We can do ourselves a huge favor by sacrificing the occasional crop to be a seed-bearing harvest. I usually try and grow a male or two outside somewhere, far away from my identified females, and making sure not to contaminate my indoor grow. But the seeds I produce have a MUCH higher germination rate than the dispensary product. Probably because they are so fresh. Who knows how long the seeds you get from the B&M stores have been sitting around?

[User420111]

I think you'd be counted among the lucky few that have actual, legitimate, 100% landrace strains.

I've been using the same seed dispensary for years and although they do ship nice seeds, the genetics are a toss-up. I notice some very funky looking leaves especially in the first month of vegetative. Like you said, others grow at different rates. It all comes down to phenotypes. I'd find it VERY difficult to believe that a dispensary can keep all their strains separated at all times. There has to be some crossover pollination going on.

But at the end of the day, who really cares if you're smoking one name or another. In my opinion there have been too many weird "names" floating around as everyone want to boast their own signature strain. As long as you're enjoying the end result is all that matters. Which is to get high.


Growing here for just over 35 years. I remember the first time I tried to grow a pot plant, I got some bag seed and went DEEP into the bushes, under some multiflora rose hedgerows (because I didn't want my Mom to find out, lol) and jammed a couple seeds into the clayish, brackish mud. HAHA! Needless to say, I've learned a thing or two since then.

Happy growing! Spring is upon us.

[Gingerbeard]

Buying landrace strains from a breeder is no different than buying hybrids from a breeder. The key word is 'breeder'. If a seed is grown in other than its natural environment, it is landrace in name only. If you want landrace seeds, the best way is to buy a lid of the brown you got when you were a kid and grow the seeds you pick.
Grow operations are laboratories where people decide the scientifically optimal conditions to grow the best producing and most potent plant possible. I've never grown Thai, but I understand someone trying to grow fat buds will be sorely disappointed.
The landraces you old hippies are talking about came from the places they were named after, in bundles. Anything grown from those seeds is no longer landrace. Champagne, in a way, is a landrace strain. If it ain't made in Champagne, it ain't nothing but sparkling wine.
But I get it. When I realized weed had names beyond Indica and Sativa, I was into looking only for Afghan and/or Afghan Kush and/or Kush. None of it was the same. One company's OG Kush was way different than another. Now, if it says 'Indica' on the label, I'm on it.
As for getting bum seeds. Yeah. It sucks. Name me a living thing does not have its foibles. I'll wait... And keep an eye on your labels. Did the company you bought your bum seed from breed the seed or buy it from another company? You can switch suppliers but still be getting from the same breeders.
Maybe 'heirloom' is a better word. Like heirloom vegetables. Stop with the crossbreeding and you have heirloom strains.

[Bluey]

My approach indoors, and it hasn't been long now, but is to try and replicate the natural but ideal conditions for the sativa strain as it would have experienced in its natural environment. That is one of the reasons I drop temps late in flower as that is what happens out in the real world, and it works brilliantly for the strains I grow. Huge nice thick dense buds even when I screw up the nutes

[MasterBotany]

Exatcly this i forgot to mention this in my post but spot on

[MasterBotany]

Hello I am new here and new to growing with plans on being a household seeds and clone name
I consume knowledge fast and filter through a lot of media in search for answers

As far as growing cannabis and plants in general from seeds unless your seeds come in a package that says "true/ stable/ ibl / or homogenized" your natural regular seeds will produce varying phenos (looks/smell/feel) and Geneos (DNA) so you may have a breed of say Colombian gold and 12 seeds to start you may have heard they have extremely golden buds but your seeds sprouts and take off into flower with no gold buds in your batch doesn't mean it doesn't exist it just means those seeds are a handful of seeds from a plant that can contain 100s of seeds at a time and that particular batch has the recessive or the dominate trait for green buds instead of gold, you may even get a batch that is all gold but they are dwarfs compared to the normal size from the green bud Colombians, many things can change the outcome that's what a pheno hunter does they look for all the qualifying phenos and they breed the best plants together resulting in more stable genetics but the lack of geno hunting is the problem that's what people mean by "its all about genetics" its not the name of the seed breeder that will mean they have good genetic seeds like any big name breeder can produce boof Colombian gold but there maybe somebody out there that has the exact pheno down to a T but they don't mass produce


in ops case the seeds you have from the breeder are either not what they are supposed to be or they are the seed breeders interpolation or interpretation of the strain or its the above which is nature being nature even the strawberries and bananas we eat today had to be selectively bred for seed to flesh ratio the yellow color of the banana and the big juicy strawberries all in all today's seeds have been mixed so much without true stabilizing that you will pretty much have this problem unless it says specifically "true ibl stable or homogenized"

Lastly Cannabis is really sensitive because we want to get something potent from it and the conditions need to be perfect to get perfect results every time you can have land race all you want but one slip up outdoors weather wise or even genetically and you have something different

If i am wrong about anything feel free to correct me this is what Ive gathered and I'm open to learning from anything i may have misinterpreted i started growing last November

[Rwise]

I found this tidbit about Freakshow, long but interesting read. This is from Shapshifter, the creator of Freakshow.

https://freakshowcannabis.com/about