Living soil, super soil, pH of 8 while cooking

[Need2Know]

I’m doing Living Soil for the first time. The mix includes the following…

Coco coir, Perlite, Vermiculite, Organic compost (store purchased)

Bat guano, Kelp meal, Alfalfa meal, Dolomite lime, Barley Malt and
Mycorrhizal powder (Psycho Myco)

I have a question that a true Super Soil user may be able to answer. It involves the pH during the ‘cooking’ time. I’m getting a pH of 8 by mixing this soil with tap water of 6.5 pH and using both strips and a meter for testing.

An extensive internet search has people saying a pH of 8 is no problem since the Mycorrhizal and bacteria make the soil nutrients fully usable for plant intake. Others say that the soil pH needs to be reduced to a pH of 6.5 by mixing in Sulphur. Please don’t confuse this super soil with a soil that has shop bought liquid nutrients added.

I’m trying to make a ‘water only’ soil for my next grow. The soil has been ‘cooking’ for a month at this point. I turn it ever 2 to 3 days. It’s being kept in the house with a temp of around 17c (63f) average. The soil smells good and earthy. The soil is damp but not soaking.

So, what are the experiences you soil growers have had? Is Super Soil pH of 8 OK and don’t worry about it?

[Pyrokill]

I don't have a science based answer to help you but I buy local organic super soil and my last grow produced well and I was feeding it around a pH of 4 the whole grow. The city changed out my water mains to plastic pipes and I think it changed my pH. I never check it anymore since I've run through a few grows with the same pH down and had my drop count good. The only way I found out is my new Autos showed issues in the leaves. I've since adjusted and 3 weeks later I still do not have pH issues anymore in the plants.

Just a shared example. Results may differ if you are making your own soil.

[crucialbunny]

It's been my experience with living soil that my PH remains constant after the initial cooking period. I let my containers develop for at least a month before transplant. The only amendment I use is a periodic watering with molasses tea to keep the bacteria healthy and happy.

[Need2Know]

It seems the consenses so far is to just leave the soil alone and it will be alright. This is the 1st time I've tried making my own, so we will see. Thanks for the input.

[No3odiesShad0w]

1. How much dolomite lime did you put in? That may be what's giving you the higher pH. The other reasons could be that it still needs some cooking time. If you're really worried, you can add gypsum (not plain sulfur) it's got calcium and sulfur and will lower the pH. The mycorrhizae love that stuff as well as other fungal species.

2. When you ball it up, does it clump up? If so, when you squeeze it, how much water do you get? Should only get a few drops. Anything wetter than that and you're setting yourself up for an anaerobic environment. You mentioned it smells good so you're still in good shape.

3. If it's properly cooking, it should be creating it's own heat with the exothermic reaction that happens. Don't turn it off it's not naturally getting warm. The reaction needs to start first before you need to start turning it to keep it from cooking itself alive.

4. The bat guano is a great source of microorganisms. Wouldn't hurt to add some fresh worm castings. The one overlooked addition is some bokashi. This will super charge the break down of organic matter. I feel like castings and bokashi are the 2 strongest microbial inoculants you can add so that later you can have a soil that's water only.

Just be patient and soon you'll have your own soil, better than anything you can buy in a store.

[Need2Know]

Hello No3odiesShad0w, Thanks for sending along the extended info on Living Soil. This is good stuff. To answer some of questions, I've copied them with answers below...

1. How much dolomite lime did you put in? That may be what's giving you the higher pH. The other reasons could be that it still needs some cooking time. If you're really worried, you can add gypsum (not plain sulfur) it's got calcium and sulfur and will lower the pH. The mycorrhizae love that stuff as well as other fungal species. The soil recipe I used said to use 1/3 cup of lime for each 5 gallon batch. I used 1/4 cup since I didn't want to make the soil too alkali. I just read that Gypsum has a pH of 6.7 or almost neutral. It has Sodium and Calcium and is good for soil conditioning like making it more Lumus. Sulfur seems to be the stuff for reducing pH and making the soil more acid, although too much will mess it all up and it takes a long time to work. Yea, I agree with you concerning the Mycorrhizae. That's some great stuff but friggen expensive! I used 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallon. Cooing time has been a month. I expect to cook for 2 to 3 months. Do you think the pH will come down with more cooking time?

2. When you ball it up, does it clump up? If so, when you squeeze it, how much water do you get? Should only get a few drops. Anything wetter than that and you're setting yourself up for an anaerobic environment. You mentioned it smells good so you're still in good shape. The soil is damp, clumps up and I get no drops of water when I squeeze it.

3. If it's properly cooking, it should be creating it's own heat with the exothermic reaction that happens. Don't turn it off it's not naturally getting warm. The reaction needs to start first before you need to start turning it to keep it from cooking itself alive. Maybe I'm messing this up. I turn the soil by dumping one bucket into another and then back again every 2 to 3 days. I've never noticed the soil being warm. It's kept in the house with heat turning on twice a day for a few hours. I turn the soil so it's oxygenated. It's being kept in a sealed bucket. I'll take your advise and just raise the lid every other day and see if it gets warm...

4. The bat guano is a great source of microorganisms. Wouldn't hurt to add some fresh worm castings. The one overlooked addition is some bokashi. This will super charge the break down of organic matter. I feel like castings and bokashi are the 2 strongest microbial inoculants you can add so that later you can have a soil that's water only. I'll look around for some worm castings. I've read that they are pH neutral, are a good source of nitrogen and refines nutrients for better plant absorbsion. The only worry there is making this soil too hot. Never heard of the bokashi compost for kitchen waste till now. Think I'll pass on that this time around. I got half a bag of organic compost already.

It's great to talk to someone who has been using Living soil like you. The internet has so many conflicting recommendations. I'll try just letting the soil I have sit for a couple of weeks and see if it gets warm. That may be all the high - 8 pH story is all about. Thanks for the advise you have given. If you think of anything else, don't hesitate to write.

[No3odiesShad0w]

So far it's looking like you're on track. The moisture content is good.... Though you may want it a tad wetter, especially if you like turning it often, you won't have worries about it going anaerobic. I'm sure the pH will probably come down as the microbes get to work. That's why I recommended the worm castings sand the bokashi. They're both full of moves that get to work breaking down the mulch and plant contract. You can use it for kitchen waste, but that just shows you how effective those microbes can be at breaking down dead stuff. They don't harm living things because they have a cell wall. Dead things, the cell wall breaks down and the microbes can get in and have a party.

Before you turn it just put your palm against the soil. If it's cooking, you'll notice it's gently warmer. Stick your finger in the center. It'll feel warmer. You should also notice the texture change with time. It gets darker and finer. Just keep those microbes happy👍

[Bluey]

Organic compost is one of the main ingredients I would use in my cooked soil....this mostly was mulched trees and woodchips but I would also add animal manure to this.

The above helps keep pH neutral once cooked and composted. Add more if your pH is very high

Adding blood and bone will probably bring it down a fraction if it's really high but it can be used to raise pH if it is particularly low.

pH won't matter if you are using this cooked soil as an additive to depleted soil

Make sure it is super well cooked and composted though.

[Need2Know]

Thanks Bluey. This is my first mix of organic soil, so it isn't depleted soil. The compost I'm using is called Supagrow Orgainic Compost. I'd like to buy another bag just so I can get a pH reading on it. What I did earlier today is email the company and just asked them if they have any info on this compost pH parameters. They haven't got back to me yet. It is peat free. From the post done by no3odiesshad0ws, I've stopped turning the soil till I can tell it's getting hot. I was turning it every 2 to 3 days. I'll keep your suggestion of bone meal and add more compost if the pH stays high. Right now I don't want to do much to the mix till I see a temp rise and know it really is cooking. I still got a few months till I'll be using it.

[Bluey]

I would add depleted soil to the compost mix prior to cooking, similar to you adding already composted soil. Once cooked (about 6 weeks) I'd continue to let it compost and continue turning and keep moisture up.

You will end up with an extremely hot mix I would think and that is why I only used it as a spreader on top of the soil or mixed a small amount in with depleted soil. Far too hot to grow directly in it.

[Need2Know]

That's a thought Bluey. Depleted soil or maybe just some more organic compost. I won't be planting direct into this Super Soil. I got a bag of BioBizz Light that I mixed with some Myco fungus, and I will use that to start off the seeds. The Super Soil will fill the bottom 1/3 of three 30 litre fibre buckets and BioBuzz Light on top. For the next couple of weeks, I will continue to see if the mix ever gets hot to the touch. Dumping it every 2 to 3 days may not give it enough time for mix to break down. I was reading and the reason for the super soil not getting hot is it may be too small, ~ 30 litre in a beer fermentation bucket. The artical I was reading was talking about 1 metre cubed minimum. Hm...

[Bluey]

It won't get hot to touch in small quantities. One prequisite for cooking is mass. A 30ltr pot is not big enough for that. I used a cubic mtr size concrete walled tub that I sealed with poly sheet for anaerobic action, and only turned over once per week, which is when moisture levels in the centre of the mass would be depleted...so that's when I brought the moisture back up. Not unusual to see burnt material and what looks like ash in the middle.

[Need2Know]

Oh well, Thanks Bluey. Too small mass. Bummer. I'll have to think if I want to continue with this project of Super Soil or just go buy a bag of BioBizz All Mix Super soil. The Supagrow organic compost I'm using got back to me and said their product has a Ph of 7 to 7-1/2. Although the super soil has been started, it may be better to just use it in the garden pushing up daisies. I'm a small grower in a 1x1x2 meter tent. It's a lot of time and effort for a failure due to soil. Maybe I'll look into store bought supper organic soil and top up with chemicals during the flowering period. What do you think? Also, what do you think about using any of the organic material I've already purchased to mix with BioBizz All Mix, which is a bit hot in itself?

Coco coir (1 part)
Perlite (1 part)
Vermiculite (1 part)
Organic compost (1-1/2 part) Supagrow

Bat guano
Kelp meal
Alfalfa meal
Dolomite lime
Mycorrhizal powder
Barley Malt

[Bluey]

I've never used soil indoors, but others here have. I've also never used soil off the shelf.

If you're going to add liquid nutes to the medium perhaps a coco/perlite grow might be easier to manage?

[Need2Know]

Something from the suppier...

upaGrow's Organic Compost

Mixed with the below it will not burn your seed !!

Coco coir
Perlite
Vermiculite
Organic compost

Bat guano 700 gram
Kelp meal 1 Kg
Alfalfa meal Kg
Dolomite lime Kg
Mycorrhizal powder
Barley Malt

Let our Organic breathe first and then mix, then water , then breathe again.

PH levels normally reduce over time . PH parameters of Suragrow Organic Compost ... 7 to 7-1/2.

Also plain soil will reduce ph levels.

[Need2Know]

I wrote to Biobizz. They replied with the following for those small growers that must use pre bagged Super Soil since they don't need the volume required to generate a good Super Soil themselves.

Will Biobizz All Mix burn seedlings? Should I start plants with Biobizz Light and then transfer into All Mix once established?

They wrote......Hi there,

We would advise starting with BioBizz Light mix and then transplanting into BioBizz All Mix or Plant Magic Soil Supreme.