Need Nutrient Advise

[OldManGrower]

I have been growing steadily, at least three grows a year for the last five years. My quality and yields have increased with each effort. The quality is absolutely kick-ass, but I am still dissatisfied with the yield end of the equation.
I have been using the GH Trio for quite a while. I was thinking of adding worm castings and perhaps kelp to my soil mix. If I do so, how will this interact with the GH Trio? Should I cut it back? How much worm casting should be added to each bag How should kelp be used in 3 gallon bags? How would you apply them?

[Rootsruler]

I think you're looking at the wrong thing. Ferts aren't going to increase your yields appreciably.

Genetics.

You need to start Pheno hunting for the genetics you're looking for.

[OldManGrower]

How do you go about doing that?

[Rootsruler]

Just gotta grow enough cultivars to see what gets you to your goal. Check out Dragond Flame Genetics. Jeffs got some really nice genetics.

https://budbuilders.org/threads/the-dragons-lair.17/

[Bluey]

How many days veg are you doing and what light over what area? How are you managing with temps and RH?

[OldManGrower]

Sixty days veg, 300 watt Spider Farmer SE3000 over 2.5x2.5. I grow in my garage, temps and RH are problematic, especially in summer.

[Bluey]

Everything looks good for good yields but you have to keep temps down in mid/late flower in my experience with great airflow to produce dense buds in everything I've grown in the past. Insulating the space may help in summer, especially if you are under a flat tin roof.

Edit. Coco will generally produce higher yields than soil grows. And those proper hydro setups even more.

[MegaClutch]

I been using Athena Pro Line with a couple additives and it’s been coming out incredible.

[BaccaRacca]

What kind of yields are you getting now? What do you want to get?

[OldManGrower]

This last grow I ended up with 233g. This is .82 g. per ounce. I had six plants. My intermediate goal is 2 ounce peer plant or 300+ grams. My long term goal is 3 ounce per plant.

[alltatup]

Hey buddy, What has made a huge difference for me in terms of bud size is getting the colas into the "light sweet spot": without a doubt, that is what's responsible for big, thick buds. https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-far-grow-lights

When I switched to LED Cobbs and let the colas grow taller during veg period, my buds got badder and better.

[SoOrbudgal]

Well can't say i've grown that many in a single tent if that's what your doing? And yes i veg nearly as long as you OldManGrower but i only do 4 autos at a time in my 3x3 and 2 photos in that space. Yes i've done 4 photos in 3gal bags it's all i use now for fabric but i like the 7gal plastic now for photos short squat pots and just run 2. I get minumum 2 quart jars per plant.

[Rootsruler]

OldManGrower - I ran 3 plants in a 5 x 5 of some genetics someone gave me in clone. Moonshine, Big Fat Glue and Florida Strawberry. I've never run these genetics before and was running a tester to see the characteristics of each. Moonshine yielded 17 oz., BFG yielded 8.5 oz. and Florida Strawberry yielded 9.5 oz. Moonshine is an old school cut with heavy sativa chraracteristics. BFG is more 50/50 hybrid with a slight sativa lean. Florida Strawberry is also a hybrid but with heavy indica lean.

If you want to test out a couple of the genetics PM me and we can arrange. I like them all but I like MS for that old school taste and the FS for its indica, new school look and high. MS has more old school characteristics so not a lot of sparkle whereas the other 2 get nice and frosty.

[BaccaRacca]

Hey OldManGrower

I'm going to echo some things SoOrbudgal and Bluey have written.

From my experience you are doing very well with what you are doing, but if you want to improve yield, you are growing too many plants. I've seen that many small pots may give me a greater variety of strains to smoke after harvest, but it compromises yield. I've become a "One Light, One Plant" kind of grower.

Of course, I should point out that I am now a soilless grower.

Anyway, it seemed like the smaller pots, limited grow space per plant, the added complexity of managing the needs of different strains -- heights, grow rates, pruning, etc -- reduced yield. On the other hand I've gotten as much as 280g. from one plant using my "One Light" strategy in my 2x2 and 2x4 box "lab."

And, soil may be a limiting factor in improving yields considering weight and size of pot needed for larger yield. Currently I'm obsessed with water/nute uptake. My flowering White Widow is currently sucking down about 80 ounces of nutes a day in a 2.7-gallon nursery pot filled with perlite. In the size of pots you are using, I don't see how you can put that level of nutes through soil without risking a muddy mess and root rot. You may need to go to larger pots. I think there is a limiting factor there on soil, where bigger yields grow geometrically with bigger pots. Nutes to roots is critical to higher yields.

You may try 4 plants instead of six in that space, and go up a pot or bag size.

Ideally, I believe your best bet for max yields indoors is to go soilless in some form, and if you are going to use soil, use as large a pot as your old man back allows (I'm an old man with a bad back, too!).

I hope this helps.

[Rootsruler]

Hey OldManGrower

I'm going to echo some things SoOrbudgal and Bluey have written.

From my experience you are doing very well with what you are doing, but if you want to improve yield, you are growing too many plants. I've seen that many small pots may give me a greater variety of strains to smoke after harvest, but it compromises yield. I've become a "One Light, One Plant" kind of grower.

Of course, I should point out that I am now a soilless grower.

Anyway, it seemed like the smaller pots, limited grow space per plant, the added complexity of managing the needs of different strains -- heights, grow rates, pruning, etc -- reduced yield. On the other hand I've gotten as much as 280g. from one plant using my "One Light" strategy in my 2x2 and 2x4 box "lab."

And, soil may be a limiting factor in improving yields considering weight and size of pot needed for larger yield. Currently I'm obsessed with water/nute uptake. My flowering White Widow is currently sucking down about 80 ounces of nutes a day in a 2.7-gallon nursery pot filled with perlite. In the size of pots you are using, I don't see how you can put that level of nutes through soil without risking a muddy mess and root rot. You may need to go to larger pots. I think there is a limiting factor there on soil, where bigger yields grow geometrically with bigger pots. Nutes to roots is critical to higher yields.

You may try 4 plants instead of six in that space, and go up a pot or bag size.

Ideally, I believe your best bet for max yields indoors is to go soilless in some form, and if you are going to use soil, use as large a pot as your old man back allows (I'm an old man with a bad back, too!).

I hope this helps.

Agree. If you are willing to take on the added responsibilities hydro needs, yields will be higher.

[bdeegan]

Hey oldmangrower, arrent you an auto grower? I ask because I believe autos are inherently going to give smaller yields all other things equal. I like the above suggestion about going soilless and have thought about doing the same in trying to get my yields up.

[Bluey]

I use coco with a tank that holds a weeks supply in mid flower and automate the watering...requires less than an hours work a week to run it.

It works

[OldManGrower]

Hey Guys, thank you all so much for responses, Although no one directly addressed my questions, you all did provide a lot of nutrients for thought. I would like to address some of your own questions and comments.

I know that three gallon pots are small and result in a lesser yield, but I have had three spinal surgeries and I cannot handle anything larger. I grew weed to help with pain, not too cause more of it.

Several of you said that I had too many plants. If I use LST I can make every plant grow too the edge of the pot and then straight up without touching any other plant or the tent, Why would this result in a smaller yield? I agree that if they really get large, than I will have to make a Sophie' Choice and remove one or more of them.

It was commented that multiple strains create different issues and require more work and attention. This is my hobby and I look forward to the additional effort required for the work. This las grow had no problems at all which was almost scary.

I grow both autos and photos. It depends on how much time I have between traveling.

It was suggested that going hydro would increase yields and I may try that after I feel I have mastered what I am doing.

My soil is neither muddy nor dense but I welcome any suggestions.

[Bluey]

I haven't grown autos yet only photos and have 2 indoor grows under my belt and about 25 outdoors, almost always using regular seed harvested myself.

I know my next grow will be low yield per plant and am doubling the pot count to 8 from 4. One thing I'm looking forward to is not having to move pots drainage fertigation and lights around to account for males. I'll be using 7gal pots with about 5gal of coco/perlite mix. I won't be moving them around.

My outdoor pot grows were always the lowest yield compared to my raised garden beds or in the ground. I used my own homemade soil and it was pretty good but would show deficiency in the pots midway and long before the others started to yellow off so used seaweed extract on those to help with that but only once a week at most to once a fortnight. The pot size was the problem here (13 to 19gal) and come harvest they would be root bound. I only used pots when I had to move them around.

If you decide to change to coco I suspect you will still need larger than 3gal pots even with perfect high frequency fertigation to avoid the root bound issue on photos.

Can you change how you manage your grow so you don't need to move your pots or can you put your pots on dolly's (a bit of ply on 4 caster wheels about 4" high)?

[Rootsruler]

Hey Guys, thank you all so much for responses, Although no one directly addressed my questions, you all did provide a lot of nutrients for thought. I would like to address some of your own questions and comments.

I know that three gallon pots are small and result in a lesser yield, but I have had three spinal surgeries and I cannot handle anything larger. I grew weed to help with pain, not too cause more of it.

Several of you said that I had too many plants. If I use LST I can make every plant grow too the edge of the pot and then straight up without touching any other plant or the tent, Why would this result in a smaller yield? I agree that if they really get large, than I will have to make a Sophie' Choice and remove one or more of them.

It was commented that multiple strains create different issues and require more work and attention. This is my hobby and I look forward to the additional effort required for the work. This las grow had no problems at all which was almost scary.

I grow both autos and photos. It depends on how much time I have between traveling.

It was suggested that going hydro would increase yields and I may try that after I feel I have mastered what I am doing.

My soil is neither muddy nor dense but I welcome any suggestions.

While a few on here seem to think that you have to veg a plant to a particular size before it is viable to flower I am not one of them. Put as many pots in your tent as you feel necessary. My last grow I grew 3 plants in 7 gallon bags. I had just established a mother tent so now I have the luxury of propogating my own clones and get to choose how many plant sites I want to cultivate. This time I'm going to run 6 plants in 3 gal pots. Why? Because I don't need to veg as much as I SCROG so as long as I fill the screen that's all that matters one or six.

[BaccaRacca]

Hey Old Man!

I'm glad you saw that comment on another thread about pot sizes, and the link to the GWE pot sizing guide. I'll post that link at the bottom here, for the home audience following along.

One interesting takeaway is if you switch from cloth pots to solid, hard-side nursery pots you can increase the size of the plant. Interesting.

Another thing I noticed is that NebulaHaze wrote that the soils like you are using may run out of nutes in a 3-gallon pot, where they would not do that in a larger pot. So, maybe mixing up some worm castings for the bottom of the pot, where more mature roots would welcome some fresh nutes? Just thinkin' here.

As for Kelp, why not add that to your nute soup at the end as well?

Another nute additive you might consider is soy protein hydrolysate. It's available as an additive and it is what makes my peculiar choice of Miracle-Gro Vegetable & Herbs successful -- it ain't your grandpa's Miracle Gro, fer sher.

And finally as another way to help directly answer your question, it might be a good thing to take a refresher on how to build and use super-soil on the GWE site. You might find some good tips hidden in there. That is why I re-read those things all the time. I miss things.

I do want to assure you that I sympathize with your back condition, and the need for lightweight pots. I, too, have a bad back; 8 congenital defects and one big surgery. Too, I've been weakened further by androgen deprivation therapy for my late-stage prostate cancer. Light weight, and getting the most out of a small pot is what led me to High-Frequency Fertigation (HFF) using 2.7-quart nursery pots filled with 100% perlite. Very light weight. I move the pots around with no trouble.

Here is what I'm currently growing in my 4x2 Box, with each plant getting it's 2x2 space and its own light. The plant on the right was started at the same time, but was stunted with a week of watering on a schedule similar to hand watering, rather than the HFF the plant on the left received. Currently the plant on the left is taking up over 3/4 gallon a day:



I'm currently conducting a grow journal if you'd like to learn more about my experience with HFF. It's my first try with 100% perlite and 2.7- gallon pots. You can find it here:

https://forum.growweedeasy.com/forum/growing-community/603548-first-time-100-perlite-hydro-grow

And here are the links to the GWE tutorials:

https://www.growweedeasy.com/choose-right-pot#general-guide

https://www.growweedeasy.com/organic-super-soil