Under developed buds what the hell

[dustydundee]

I have a weird problem with my current grow. Growing some Gold Leaf, this is on day 44 of flower. I grow in soil, using happy frog with 30-40% extra perlite as my medium. Using the GH trio formula recommended on this board for quite some time, ph'ing down each time to about 6.5-6.7 or so, alternating feedings with just a light calmag solution every other time. Using 10 gallon pots, I water only when dry, which is typically 4-6 days... This is the worst time of year for me to grow, as I'm I can't really air condition my grow space and it gets a little warm. Temps during lights on can reach upper 80's now, sometimes in the low 90s. Humidity is high too, i'm in the southern part of the US. I realize that's not ideal and this is not my ideal season to grow. During winter months, I can get my grow space dialed in and I grow the majority of my good weed during that time, whereas during the summer, I still grow for the joy of it, but I expect worse results. Usually, I deal with mold during the summer, but this one is new. These buds just have not matured at all. I have 8 plants in 2 grow tents, and about 6 of them are like the first 3 pictures. The buds just did not develop. 2 of the plants did develop some decent buts, and I show that in the last picture. The last pic is more close to what I would expect to see. I've never had this issue before, but I'd really like to understand what caused it. The harvest is too late to salvage on these, the buds are small, but they're firm, so I'll get something out of these plants, just not much. I know it can't be saved, but I'm curious as to what causes this. Any ideas?

The temp and humidity is obviously my first suspect, but the thing is, I've grown in these temps for the last 3 years in the summer. Usually just results in mold loss when it gets too hot. Never had these little mini-buds before. would really like to here from someone who's had this issue before....

[Puglover1]

Sorry, I've only grown mini auto plants. Would removing some fan leaves help with high RH? I'd be worried about mold in a couple of your pics. You have nice frost, at least the trim should be useful. How much longer do you anticipate growing the small tight bud plants? The buds in the last pic are beautiful. All the same seeds, same everything? That is weird, sorry. Hopefully those tight little buds are power packs!

[alltatup]

dustydundee I think you hit the nail on the head, and it's just too hot for them to thrive. I'm down south, too, but I grow in a spare bedroom. My electricity bill is getting higher and higher during these months of summer. It's humid as heck where I live, but the air conditioning kills that problem. I have a buddy growing outdoors, and we're keeping a close eye on his plants, on the watch for mold. Every day threatens rain, so you know how humid it is outside. Funny how strong the last plant is, able to tolerate the conditions better than the other plants...

[DaGreenBlazer]

Yo dude, i would also agree those leafs definitely look like they're suffering heat & humidity stress - I've only ever had experience with too high temps (and thankfully not high humidity too) though my observation was that most of them seemed to just freeze growth; they didn't deteriorate in any way but they just went into a sort of stasis where growth just froze up for long periods.

The only tip i wanted to add on the heat side was to also check what your night time/lights off temperatures are like - if the night time temp is dropping any more than 10° below daytime temps then the negative effects of high daytime temps will be far more pronounced - often times with indoor growing the large differential drop between temperatures over a 24hr period will be causing the long term problems, rather than just the high daytime temps alone. I suspect your situation is that it's probably baking hot at night too, so apologies if this isn't applicable, but if you live somewhere where the temps do plummet at night, then raising night time temps would even out their climate & make it more tolerable to them.

And it may seem too obvious, though since i haven't seen it mentioned yet, would just switching over to running lights at actual night time make any difference?? If there is any slight drop in temp/humidity at night, then i would just switch the schedule so lights are on at night, the 24hr profile of the temperature range would smooth out & you just gotta make sure room more lightproof during day, which avoids spending money on climate conditioning equipment. I wish you luck finding a way round it for future summer grows, as environment can be such a pain in the ass sometimes.

[SoOrbudgal]

I'm so sorry yes it appears to be too much heat i do believe these still can be saved if cond. improves quickly

[GroBuddy]

I mean unless that's a black dog led your blurple would be my first guess

Growing outdoors the temp swings 20 to 30° degrees also gets up to 120°F doesn't cause this

[dustydundee]

the heat and humidity is suspect, I agree guys, but it was hotter last year and I never saw this last year, i just saw a lot of mold! I'm growing in a shed that is outside, but I'm pumping outside air into the shed through several big ass fans pulling in air from under the shed, which is in the shade. So my tents on the inside, generally have the same temp that is going on outside. When its 90 outside, my tents are at 90, give or take. I run the lights at night, so during the hot day, the lights are off. With that, very little differentiation in temps from night to day. The temps are just something that I can't control during the summer, so I expect issues. When the fall comes and temps outside drop below 70, all the way down to sub freezing zero temps, I can keep the temps inside a warm and cozy 70-75 without issues, but when the temps outside go above that, i'm just limited to whatever temperature of air I'm pumping in from the outside.

We havent even hit the worst part of the summer yet. Last year, I was getting temps into the high 90s even low 100s during some moments. Usually though, I'm in the high 80s, low 90s. Just odd for me to see this all of a sudden when I ain't seen it before, it just doesn't seem like the worst I've had gone through. Another relevant point though, is I did not grow this strain, Gold Leaf, before during the summer months, I just started growing it this year, i think this is the first time its seen this heat. Perhaps this strain is just more prone to heat issues then some of the other strains I grew in the heat before, is all I can think of. May be a good time to ask if anyone has grown a strain that seems to handle heat issues better then other strains, and I can try that during the summer?

Besides heat and humidity, anything else that can cause this kind of stuff? PH? over/underwatering? root issues? soil issues?

[Gingerbeard]

I'm way southwest California, a mile and a half from the ocean. We get heat and humidity in the 90's. I've gotten septoria, once, and took care of it with plucking. Two harvests ago I lost my harvest to WPM.
Both of these happened because I didn't have enough circulation or enough ventilation when the tent was closed. Had I kept up with those two issues I would have not had problems. Have enough circulation to keep the plants moving in the breeze. I grow Indica. Not the best for hot and humid, but manageable.
As far as growth, it could be the seeds.

[alltatup]

It breaks my heart to hear about what global warming is doing. There don't seem to be options for outdoor grows in summer: the odds are increasing that crops will be destroyed in the hottest months. I see it where I live on a regular basis with the corn crops: they are stunted and burnt to a crisp.

[Puglover1]

And we have so much rain that I saw corn growing in a field near a highway, didn't look close to knee high. Usually corn is taller than me right now. My town and country just get hammered with rain. Six inches in two hours yesterday.

[alltatup]

Puglover1 I've seen the same this summer: the runtiest corn I ever saw!!!

[3Berries]

We are in a semi drought here in East Central Illinois. But the corn and beans are doing OK. Go GMO!

We were really wet though last year and over the winter.

[DareRock]

Hey this is my first post, but when I saw your pics I signed up to be a member just so I could help out with your problem. You have a Sulfur (S) deficiency...for sure. The purple leaf stems and downward hooking leaf claws are a dead giveaway. S is a critical secondary nutrient for creating amino acids and proteins needed for both veg and flower, and your soil has probably been very deficient since flowering started. Without sufficient S plants go into suspended animation where they just stop everything.

It's probably too late to have much impact for this crop, but I would give it a try if you have even a few weeks to go. For sure have some on-hand next time. "Wettable Sulfur" from BuildaSoil.com is the ticket. I would add 2 TBS per gallon for the next 2 waterings. You could try Magnesium Sulfate (Epson salts) but I've found you have to add so much to have an impact that you then risk an excess of Magnesium.

[SoOrbudgal]

I've never heard such a tale about having to " add so much to have an impact " yep sounds like a sales pitch Gingerbeard. I've gardened for 50yrs and used Epson salts when needed for any type of plant roses to weed and more. Never have i needed to use more than 2 tbls per gallon of water to see a change within days. It will not burn when used properly< that's the key word

[Rwise]

Lack of Sulfur causes yellow veins, Sulfur is needed.

[Gingerbeard]

First post sales pitch?

[DareRock]

Nope, not a sales pitch. Just tryin to help a brother out.

I had a situation last crop where I overzealously topped all my plants for the 4th time in week 4, and then flowering started a couple days later. The stress of all the new growth and the flowering at the same time was too much and they all just stopped growing. The leaf stems all turned purple and the tell-tale claw hooks were everywhere. All the new growth was weak and yellow. I tried Epson salt hard for a week and it didn't even move the needle. My local GrowTime suggested wettable sulfur, and after a week of 2 TBS/gallon everything was back on track. BTW sulfur deficiencies cause buds to be fluffy and airy, which I suspect we call all relate to. I read about products like Humboldt Sweet and Sticky on GWE so I'm gonna do some side-by-side experiments this time around. Current crop is in Week 7 so I'm psyched to see the results.

[alltatup]

DareRock What on earth were you thinking, or WERE you thinking? That is a horrible way to treat cannabis plants. Like torture. With all due respect, I have to be honest and write that's how it appears to me.

[3Berries]

Sometimes they just need to be hammered. I have one I was going to throw out but decided to top dress with KSO4, MgSO4, and CAN. The thing took off and doubled in size. Pick the dead leaves off and it looks like nothing happened.

[Gingerbeard]

From the GWE website

How to fix Cannabis Sulfur Deficiency (S) Pics & Symptoms (growweedeasy.com)

[DaGreenBlazer]

the heat and humidity is suspect, I agree guys, but it was hotter last year and I never saw this last year, i just saw a lot of mold! I'm growing in a shed that is outside, but I'm pumping outside air into the shed through several big ass fans pulling in air from under the shed, which is in the shade. So my tents on the inside, generally have the same temp that is going on outside. When its 90 outside, my tents are at 90, give or take. I run the lights at night, so during the hot day, the lights are off. With that, very little differentiation in temps from night to day. The temps are just something that I can't control during the summer, so I expect issues. When the fall comes and temps outside drop below 70, all the way down to sub freezing zero temps, I can keep the temps inside a warm and cozy 70-75 without issues, but when the temps outside go above that, i'm just limited to whatever temperature of air I'm pumping in from the outside.

We havent even hit the worst part of the summer yet. Last year, I was getting temps into the high 90s even low 100s during some moments. Usually though, I'm in the high 80s, low 90s. Just odd for me to see this all of a sudden when I ain't seen it before, it just doesn't seem like the worst I've had gone through. Another relevant point though, is I did not grow this strain, Gold Leaf, before during the summer months, I just started growing it this year, i think this is the first time its seen this heat. Perhaps this strain is just more prone to heat issues then some of the other strains I grew in the heat before, is all I can think of. May be a good time to ask if anyone has grown a strain that seems to handle heat issues better then other strains, and I can try that during the summer?

Besides heat and humidity, anything else that can cause this kind of stuff? PH? over/underwatering? root issues? soil issues?

Thanks for the reply dude and that is abit odd if you didn't experience similar in worse heat last year.

Only extra bits i thought I'd add is that you could be well correct that is just that strain being weaker overall - I don't know if you've seen the GWE Help Section about 'Cannabis Strains for Heat' though i can strongly recommend RQS Northern Lights that is mentioned - it's a regular favourite of mine to grow and I've always found it pretty much bulletproof & hardy as hell.

The only other thing i wanted to advise about the shed was is it possible to paint the outside & roof in white paint to deflect some heat away?? There's white building paint designed for heat deflection which may help if your shed is in direct sunlight.

Otherwise than that, i would still lean towards it being a heat issue, and i agree it's definitely something which is only due to get worse over summer too.