SOIL Organic soil mixure with me!....

[Superstrainpot]

I need help with making a soil mixture if anyone could lend someone with special needs a hand. I've read a couple of books, and wanted to do a TLO (true living organics) grow with these ingredients;

Worm compost or fish enzymes
Rice hulls
Dolomite lime
Mycorrhizal fungi
Alfalfa
Dried kelp
Oyster shells
Azomite and humic acid

I need help with understanding what measurements I need to make this work. I could be reached on Discord as Flipfloptothetop#3206 (cap sensitive). I appreciate all the help!

[TOKABIGONE]

Welcome to the forum and GWE! You are on the right track with what you have listed. It's called the Coots recipe and you can find a lot more info at the Build A Soil site naming those ingredients plus a couple. Don't forget perlite or pumice for drainage. 1/3 each of your base being compost or worm castings, perlite and compost. A few of us are doing this so you won't be alone!

[crucialbunny]

All of those things will make a great soil but it's really important to let all those ingredients "develop" together for a couple months. I swear by using coarse sand in the mix as well. It can add a substantial amount of mica and other minerals that Azomite alone can not. Like TOKABIGONE mentioned, a high quality compost is essential or you'll end up with a thick muddy mess. Best of luck.

[Cali]

Superstrainpot where did you go? If still interested here goes the mix I use. For soil base i use sphagnum peat moss comes in bales preferably because it’s alive cut straight from the source to you. That’s one part then I use pumice/rice hulls for aeration, that’s the second part. And the 3rd part is if you can preferably use worm castings made at home or someone you know the bagged castings you can buy at a store are not equal, if not a good quality compost. I use Malibu blends. Been tested for heavy metals and it’s good quality. Mix those and that makes your soil. To that I add one cup of amendments per cubic feet of soil. The amendments are, Karanja/Neem meal, kelp meal, and crustacean meal. That’s it for nutrients. For my minerals I use basalt use 2 cups of this one, gypsum, and oyster shell flour. Mix those and you are done. Forget about the azomite and dolomite lime those are not quality inputs and also make sure you source out quality inputs. Look up how azomite dolomite and any other amendments with mite in the end came about and what it’s used for and you won’t want it in your soil. Best thing with this mix you can go straight to growing no need to wait for it to cook or nothing. Mix, throw seed in or clone, water properly and you will harvest quality medicine. To make it easy I use 5 gallon buckets. One for pest loss one for pumice and one for compost then you have 15 gallons worth of soil about 2cf now you know easily the amount of amendments to use. Hope I didn’t waste my time. You are a 1 time post. Hope that helps others.

[TOKABIGONE]

Thanks for that info Cali, I will keep it for reference as I continue my own journey into living soil mysteries. Growing soil is the only true way to farm. Funny how natures way got overwhelmed with the advent of hydro and the chemical fertilizer manufacturers jumped on that bandwagon immediately with giant profits to be made with no regard to the ill effects. $20 bucks a quart for 99% water is a pretty nice profit!

[crucialbunny]

I'm curious about you're comment on Azomite. Just because it ends in "ite" doesn't make it a bentonite associate. It is listed for certified organic agriculture use by the Organic Materials Review Institute. I use it in my benign seedling soil so that new plants have access to trace minerals without the need for high levels of nutrients. Your comment was pretty vague so I'm interested in why you don't like it.

[TOKABIGONE]

Yeah that one gave me pause because I have seen azomite and dolomite lime as well as langbeonite recommended as pretty necessary in almost all the recipes I researched so I will probably study it more going forward. Don't really matter now as the die is cast for me. My new batch was mixed with all of them and has been cooking for a week now. I'm not manic about truly organic as i think the word is over used. More hype from the tree hugging crowd! (that one will get me hate mail!) If I see the results I expect I will continue to use the "ites"!

[crucialbunny]

TOKABIGONE are you using any molasses in your "cooking" phase? I'm using it in 2 of my 4 bins this season seeing if there is any discernible differences.

[TOKABIGONE]

I am not using it in cooking although that might not be a bad Idea to keep the colonies happy. Pretty easy to start watering it in even before the plants arrive. I usually start about a week after transplant with a tablespoon per gallon once a week.

[Cali]

Wow I lost all that I was writing. Anyways. Azomite , bentonite, zeallite they are the same thing but cheaper you ain’t paying for the brand Azomite. Azomite is used to make clay ovens. Don’t need it since he already has oyster shell flour. I say quality inputs not all are made the same. Some Organic labels are there just to make the product look good, example bone meal bloodmeal I don’t want that in my soil either. Bat guano. Maybe I’m wrong? Toker you said Azomite dolomite langbeonite are necessary? I would like to know why they say that? The inputs I use are very minimal so far all I need. I do add fish bone meal. I would like to know how much better or not it is without or with all those extras? I pulled 12 oz dry quality nugs in a 2x4 tent last grow. Not bad with just a Mars hydro sp3000 and no training maybe a bit of lst. I had written down a better paragraph explaining why but it erased so I did my best I’m on my phone.

[TOKABIGONE]

Hey, I never claim to be an expert for sure but what I'm reading is that all of these "ites" as we call them are naturally occurring mined rock minerals from volcanic rock. No heavy minerals or other harmful elements but they do hold many minerals in a soluable ready to use form. Are they absolutely necessary? No, I used none of them in my last grow and it was all vigorous and healthy. These minerals are necessary to plant health but most are available from other amendments so it's all debatable if there really is a cost benefit to it or if the plants produce more and better bud.

[crucialbunny]

Clay ovens? The only uses for Azomite I can find are agricultural.

[TOKABIGONE]

Hey there Cali and crucialbunny I found that short article about uses and importance of Azomite on Grower Today site. Here is the link:

https://www.growertoday.com/what-is-azomite/

[golfnrl]

I like growing in soil. I've been to the Buid a soil site and read about Clackamus Coots soil. I'd like to try my hand at growing a living soil. The idea of just adding water I like. I have an auto grow going with FFOF amended with Bio Tabs. How much space does it take to build this soil? Container size, storage, etc. I have limited space and I'm concerned about that while it cooks.

[TOKABIGONE]

Good morning golfnrl you need about a 6 by 6 space on the floor to mix up but it can then be potted up to "cook" in them so you get your floor back to clean up. Do more research and you will find that all these recipes are pretty flexible while similar so it's hard to screw it up. Some want to mix in the kitchen sink but that's fine tho not necessary. C'mon back and we'll figure it out together!

[Cali]

TOKABIGONE i didn’t mean to come off like that. I was just wondering how I would benefit from those because you said you read somewhere they are pretty necessary. So I’m wondering now, if I would benefit from it, or someone using it does it really make a difference? I just like to keep it simple. That’s why I like this “coots mix” because it is minimal inputs and the results are good. I know there are others doing better yields I was just saying that for the minimal effort I put in the results are not bad. But not the best some growers here do a pound a plant I think?

[SoOrbudgal]

I mix and keep my soil in large black plastic tubs with lids. I just find it simple this way to mix up coco coir, perilite, vermiculite, worm casings and older soil from previous grows. I keep refreshing it with good organic bags of composted soil. I do measure and mostly feel and look at it, i like sticking my hands in it feeling the texture and my hands no gloves!!

[TOKABIGONE]

Good morning SoOrbudgal! Yep, I see your successes all over that statement. I know you're still using chemical nutes in flower so I'm wondering if you still always check your pH inputs? I like a cooler soil to start then I can supplement with teas such as castings, guano, humic acid powder and Alaska Salmon fish emulsion which I found to give explosive growth in the stretch

[Cali]

https://clackamascoots.com/blogs/new...outed-seed-tea Hopefully that link works. It’s a little bit on the Clackamas coot soil mix from the man himself..

[TOKABIGONE]

Well that link is one I've been directed to before which talks about using barley malt as an amendment not the actual recipe. i've not been successful trying to find his recipe in his own words so I dunno.

[Cali]

Scroll to the top, you should find a tab that takes you to the rest of the blog post. One explains his recipe. Another talks about anzymes and other about myco remediation. Things like that.

[UberMensch]

Thanks for sharing this.

[SoOrbudgal]

No TOKABIGONE I am a " rouge " i've never Ph water check, i'm using well water and my eyesight to remedy problems. It's what works for me.

[TOKABIGONE]

Just as I thought you are instinctively growing in 'living soil' and continuing it's legacy forward by mixing fresh nutes into your used soil. It just keeps getting better! Comes with growing for 40 years I guess, lol! There is no substitute for experience! Thank you!

[SoOrbudgal]

Thank you

[Cali]

TOKABIGONE
Here you can see what I meant by Azomite is just a brand name. And why Bassalt is better choice and it’s the same thing volcanic rock dust. Among other amendments and why they are not the best choice as far as quality for medicine.
What's So Cool About Super Soil? The Super Soil Recipe Breakdown.


August 31, 2020 10 Comments


If you have been reading about cultivating indoors with organic soil then you've heard of SubCool's Super Soil. I admit to starting with this mix and thought I was really doing something special when I first went for it. I bought all the stuff and was really excited to use it.

My results were actually pretty good, but I've since moved on I think you should too. Make your own soil for better results. This is why I've stopped using other super soils like Subcool's.

Besides the "base soil" being purchased instead of made from scratch, I have many other issues. All in all, taking bagged soil and adding worm castings and nutrients isn't a bad idea, but the mix can be improved upon and money can be saved.

Here is the Recipe the other guys use:

• 8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
• 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
• 5 lbs steamed bone meal
• 5 lbs Bloom bat guano 5 lbs blood meal
• 3 lbs rock phosphate
• ¾ cup Epson salts
• ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
• ½ cup azomite (trace elements)
• 2 tbsp powdered humic acid

Now I'll go through each item:

1. Bagged soil - WHY? when we are going to the trouble to mix all of this up anyways, me might as well save some money and increase the quality. The other factor here is having exact control over the inputs. These soils already have unknown quantities of nutrients and the quality control isn't perfect, what if you get a hot batch and then further amend it? I would avoid the potential room for problems and make a soil using many standard recipes but most go with 1 part peat, 1 part compost and 1 part aeration.
2. Mycorrhizae: Adding this to your soil doesn't make sense and is a waste of resources. Anyone who works with mycorrhizae will tell you to apply to the rootzone at transplant or seedling stage. Obviously this super soil mix is for the bottom of the container and nowhere near the rootzone at the proper time. Basically just a complete waste of Myco.
3. 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings: I agree with using wormcastings but that is a WIDE range to apply. Why 25 - 50? I think that when building your base mix you should be factoring in a certain percentage of castings and compost. Not adding to this all later on in a made up way.
4. 5 lbs steamed bone meal - This is a by-product from the Cattle industry and is really not a good input for organic soil production. Fish bone meal however is great for this same purpose and is safer to use.
5. 5 lbs Bloom bat guano - Guano is very expensive and really not necessary. This is a fast release nutrient and is more in line with the feed the plant regimen instead of soil building. That and harvesting guano is rarely safe and sustainable, there are many reasons to avoid this.... Plus the Fish bone meal that we just mentioned has you covered already along with all the other plant based amendments and worm castings that you should be using.
6. 5 lbs blood meal - More slaughterhouse waste and sure to be unclean. Why use the blood from McDonalds cows when you can add nitrogen so easily through alfalfa meal, fish meal and or worm castings. Show your soil some better love.
7. 3 lbs rock phosphate - This is the 3rd phosphate product and it makes sense because in a soil this rich and without the mycorrhizae actually working like it should there isn't going to be a very good way to access P. That's okay, in a properly built soil you don't need a million sources of P, the plants will get it and the biology and fungi will make sure of it. Not only that but soft rock phosphate is high in heavy metals like cadmium that are proven to be harmful. When growing cannabis, the trichomes will store the heavy metals and smoking the plant will not allow the typical body safety system of passing through the liver etc. before going into your blood. For this reason materials high in heavy metals are typically avoided.
8. ¾ cup Epsom salts - Absolutely no reason to add more magnesium sulfate to a good soil mix. A little known fact about soil is that the Calcium to Magmesium Ratio will control the texture of the soil and adding epsom salts is a good way to tighten the soil and there are better ways to get sulfur, like gypsum.
9. ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite) - Dolomite lime should be avoided as it is completely out of balance with the proper Calcium to magnesium ratios for proper soil building. Especially when considering long term no-till soil use.
10. ½ cup azomite (trace elements) - This is good stuff and is just a "brand" name rock dust that has all the elements from A-Z hence Azomite.... thing is, that also includes heavy metals. While I'd use this in the veggie garden, many will avoid this in the medicine garden.
11. 2 tbsp powdered humic acid - Good advice but humic acid typically purchased at the grow shop is from leanordite and isn't really helpful and is very expensive. Avoid this and get Ful-Power from Bio-ag and use it with waterings.

So then after all this work. You mix this up and let it sit for 30 days. Then use this in the BOTTOM of your soil container. What is interesting is that all though this makes sense at first glance... it's all way off. Nature doesn't have all the nutrients on the bottom in fact it's the opposite, all the plants in nature have the nutrients on the top. That is why building a soil (making your own soil), using mulch and topdressing work so well. It's things like this that make the real organic Gardner's and farmers laugh at all of us sometimes.

So if you've been using super soil, don't feel bad, I think we all did at some point and I owe Subcool a lot because he actually got this semi-organic mix discussed enough that the mainstream took notice... that alone was helpful at getting me to where I am today.

I hope this article helps!

[Cali]

crucialbunny here it touches on the clay ovens. This comes from a well known and trusted source. One of the first people to introduce the living soil systems and what buildasoil pretty much started with. Coots Soil Mix Explained

by Jim Bennett June 11, 2020
About 11 years ago I got a medical card under the rules of OMMP (Oregon Medical Marijuana Program. Not to grow per se but to get access to the 'strain of the week' through some of the groups like Oregon Green Free and a couple of others which no longer exist thankfully.

At the time Fox Farms Ocean Forest was the big deal for reasons that still boggles the mind with prices that were not consistent with the quality of the product. A tradition that lives on today in the cannabis scene - sub-standard soils with boutique prices.

So I began to test these soils out and it was clear that there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between this or that soil. More of a matter of style over substance or maybe form over function.

Having owned and operated a commercial nursery grown different cultivars of Japanese Lace Maples for landscape architects in their resort, restaurant and commercial buildings. For this you have to grow the plant in large containers for a massive root mass which is spelled out in the contract.

This meant that you had the plants on your property for 4 or 5 years. This made the soil mix all-important vs growing annual plants for the retail market - Home Depot, Lowe's, Target, Walmart as well as the independent nurseries across the country meaning low-profit plants as you can imagine.

I decided to go for a soil that would meet the needs for growing one of the highest dollar plants - weed. After a few changes this is what I came up with...the Clackamas Coot Soil Mix...

Clackamas Coot Soil Mix

By volume mix the following...

1/3 Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (CSPM)
1/3 Aeration - I use 3/8" pumice (aka volcanic glass - completely inert)
1/3 Vermicompost

When it comes to CSPM it does not matter one iota as far as the brand as long as it's designated as CSPMA (Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss Association) which is a partnership between the handful of authorized harvesters and the Canadian government. CSPMA sets the harvest limit and not market demands.

You should ind this at Home Depot and Lowe's in 3.8 cf bales and if it is not available at your local stores then order it online (HomeDepot.com) and have them 'ship to store' at your store of choice. No charge for shipping and handling!

A cubic foot is about 7.20 gallons or 115 cups...

To this I add the following amendments to each 1 cubic foot..

1 cup kelp meal
1 cup neem meal or an equal amount of neem & karanja mix
1 cup of limestone or more exactly Calcium Carbonate CaCO3 so Oyster Shell Powder/flour can also be used as it is also a pure Calcium Carbonate material
1/2 cup Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) available at all DIY stores but you must get the material in the garden section and not in the home remodel section. There are 2 forms of gypsum so make sure you get the one for soil and not walls...

Finally there is the rock dust which I recommend 3 cups of either basalt or granite. Only these 2 materials are 'paramagnetic' which is an integral part of the CeC discussion (Cation exchange Capacity).

Rock dusts like Azomite, bentonite, zeolite and others are called 'colloidal minerals' - alumina-silicate. For example Azomite is a brand name. A geologist would know it as "Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate" and it's known as "Montmorillonite clay"

This clay has been used in France to built ceramic bread ovens which look like a bee hive. They have a small door in the front of the oven where loaves of bread are move in and out using what is called a peel.

While it makes a great ceramic oven I can't find much to cause me to recommend it in a true living soil that is supposed to last 'forever' if taken care of using organic methods.